Unleash the Hounds Combo - too easy, too eficient

Posts: 10,528
02/19/2014 04:48 PMPosted by Sua
A paladin can't get card draw by clearing the board though whereas a Hunter can.


Yeah, which is a third card into the combo. Can I add a third one to my paladin combo, if you're just going to keep stacking stuff on top?

02/19/2014 04:51 PMPosted by Proletariat
The paladin also can't choose to turn that consecrate into 6+ damage directly to the face.


No, but it ignores Taunts, and pretty much everything.

02/19/2014 05:02 PMPosted by Blackreigns
And the other half is against everyone else?


No, the other half is against something like a Priest or Mage, who basically has no chance against any kind of a rush deck thanks to being over-nerfed.

02/19/2014 05:02 PMPosted by Blackreigns
Anyone that thinks that UTH won't get insta-nerfed is dreaming.


I guess that includes the devs, who have explicitly stated that it won't be nerfed.

Which, you know, would be why it hasn't been.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7
I guess that includes the devs, who have explicitly stated that it won't be nerfed.

Which, you know, would be why it hasn't been.


well they nerfed the OTK Deck from Warrior, and this is almost like that. i would say its even stronger because of the versatility it has.
its even stronger then mage who just sits and wait for the icelance combo cause you actually have time to play and the mage also needs a lot of other cards for it.
Edited by KingLui on 2/20/2014 12:05 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 65
UTH is too good of a card. It's mana cost is way too low for what it does. Every single hunter is allowed to draw like 3-5 cards with it and buff their beasts to little 2/1 or 3/1's or sometimes more.

Lets look at it. For 5 Mana a hunter can draw 5 cards and have a full board of 2/1's with charge. How is that fair? 5 mana? 2 for the vulture, 2 for UTH, and 1 for your little timber wolf.

A full board of charge creatures and 5 cards in your hand is way too much advantage for that mana.

UTH needs relooking at in terms of mana cost. It synergizes way too well for the hunter to only pay 2 mana....No other class has a 2 mana spell of that magnitude. The only other spell I can think of is paladin consecration but that can't draw you 5+ cards and give you board presence at the same time.

Sorry, I know there is just a million people that have been talking about UTH before I even started playing in the closed beta. But I have never chimed in on it and feel it is the one card I hate playing against. Every time I have to play a hunter in ranked I see the same vulture + UTH + timber wolf combo over and over and the card draw ability is just way too over powered.

First you get all your minions killed that you somehow luckily drew early on to get them out on the board. Then they all die instantly and the hunter has 5 more cards then you. So you've lost board presence and any chance of catching up with the hunter having double if not more cards then you. its OP and makes the hunter legendary card look like crap in comparison.
Edited by Infest on 2/27/2014 10:14 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 18,234
UTH is too good of a card. It's mana cost is way too low for what it does.

You mean make a Arcane Explosion effect that is limited by taunts, minion based secrets, and re-active damage (i.e. Abom)?

I mean, it can funnel as an exchange....but otherwise....
Reply Quote
Posts: 65
02/27/2014 10:19 AMPosted by Verdash
UTH is too good of a card. It's mana cost is way too low for what it does.

You mean make a Arcane Explosion effect that is limited by taunts, minion based secrets, and re-active damage (i.e. Abom)?

I mean, it can funnel as an exchange....but otherwise....


I feel that 2 mana cost for what that card does. Summon all those beasts with charge which synergizes SO EASILY for card advantage + more is too strong. Whatever you just wrote is not what I'm talking about.
Reply Quote
Posts: 18,234
02/27/2014 10:24 AMPosted by Infest

You mean make a Arcane Explosion effect that is limited by taunts, minion based secrets, and re-active damage (i.e. Abom)?

I mean, it can funnel as an exchange....but otherwise....


I feel that 2 mana cost for what that card does. Summon all those beasts with charge which synergizes SO EASILY for card advantage + more is too strong. Whatever you just wrote is not what I'm talking about.

What I wrote is what the card does. The synergy between cards rarely affects the budget of the card itself, that is generally handled more as an over-all "kit" approach, rather than affecting a specific card itself.

Plus, the card advantage is not UtH. The damage above 1 per enemy minion (note: not 1 to each enemy minion) is not UtH. The pump effect on Hyena is not UtH. Knife Juggle procs is not UtH, etc, etc, etc.

Many classes have many cards that can perform seemingly ridiculous synergy based effects. Of those, UtH is nowhere near the most imbalanced. You have to play into it, and it can be severely affected by the types of minions you play.

Last I knew, Flamestrike didn't care if it was a taunter or not, nor does AE really, but UtH does.
Reply Quote
Posts: 65
Flamestrike is a 7mana card. UtH is 2 mana. My argument is the mana cost is too low and you sir have proven that with the 1 example you brought up.

Most mages run 1 flamestrike maybe? 2 is a little over kill.
Most hunters are running 2 UtH's and it can be played so early and twice before turn 7.
Mages have to sit and wait for turn 7 to play it once.

Hunters usually have already played 2 UtH's by then and won the game.

Being that the hunter gains complete board presence with beasts for only 2 mana is just too much. With that the hunter can use another 2 mana or 1 mana card to either draw 5 cards or buff every one of those minions and they all have charge and he can now use cards that require beasts on the board like the 5dmg hit on top of it.

The synergy with this card is off the charts and I think the numerous amounts of threads about it in the past few months have proven this card needs to be looked at.
Edited by Infest on 2/27/2014 10:39 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 18,234
Flamestrike is a 7mana card. UtH is 2 mana. My argument is the mana cost is too low and you sir have proven that with the 1 example you brought up.

I also mentioned AE, and my point wasn't the damage, but the fact that most AOE effects (i.e. damage per minion) don't care about taunt.

UtH does. So, no, I didn't prove anything other than that the differences between UtH and other AOE (disregarding the base damage, as that is a factor of mana cost mostly) are balanced by the differences between UtH and other AOE.

Being that the hunter gains complete board presence with beasts for only 2 mana is just too much. With that the hunter can use another 2 mana or 1 mana card to either draw 5 cards or buff every one of those minions and they all have charge and he can now use cards that require beasts on the board like the 5dmg hit on top of it.

So why are you facing a hunter with 5 minions on the table, and not taking advantage of UtH's drawbacks and using a taunt or two along with it?

02/27/2014 10:32 AMPosted by Infest
The synergy with this card is off the charts

Smells like an opinion

02/27/2014 10:32 AMPosted by Infest
I think the numerous amounts of threads about it in the past few months have proven this card needs to be looked at.

There has been more nerf Rag threads, going on far longer than UtH has even been in the business of summoning hounds, and Rag has yet to change, not to mention, Rag doesn't even need to be changed.

Popular opinion is not always accurate.
Reply Quote
Posts: 65
Your really comparing UtH to Ragnaros legendary card costing 8 mana and difficult to attain?

Thanks for your backhanded snarky replys but my post is for devs who are looking at this game in its beta state. They have already changed the card twice meaning it is something that just isn't fine tuned yet.

The fact that you are trying to compare Flamestrike & Ragnaros (7 and 8 mana cards..one being legendary) to UtH is exactly the reason why it needs to be looked at.

Thank you.
Edited by Infest on 2/27/2014 11:27 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,536
turn 6 against a hunter or turn 8 they always seem to have a UTH.

its too easy and too good of a counter to anything.

it is impossible to beat a hunter sometimes: you literally have been dealt 10 damage before turn 4 in many cases with 2 leper gnomes and other charges + hunter powers.

most of the games i win against hunters i can tell that the hunter is so screwed with cards in his hand that he is paralyzed and can do nothing...is that even a victory?
Reply Quote
Posts: 18,234
02/27/2014 11:23 AMPosted by Infest
Your really comparing UtH to Ragnaros legendary card costing 8 mana and difficult to attain?

Not directly, I was referring to the amount of baseless QQ both of those cards receive.

02/27/2014 11:23 AMPosted by Infest
They have already changed the card twice meaning it is something that just isn't fine tuned yet.

No, all that means is the previous iterations where not to their liking. They (Blizz) have stated that UtH is fine as is, in their opinion (technically, the wording was, they have no plans to change it)

02/27/2014 11:23 AMPosted by Infest
The fact that you are trying to compare Flamestrike & Ragnaros (7 and 8 mana cards..one being legendary) to UtH is exactly the reason why it needs to be looked at.

Again, not direct comparisons. I picked AE and Flamestrike because they are minion only AOE's that do nothing but damage. There a couple other's like that, but those ones just stood out (AE specifically for how similar it is to UtH in net effect, outside of card synergy, which AE has just to point out).

I am not saying UtH has the same impact as Flamestrike/Ragnaros, so it is fine.

I am saying that UtH and Flamestrike handle their AOE differently. UtH can funnel but affected by taunt, Flamestrike ignores the Taunt mechanic but can't funnel.

And both UtH and Rag are subject to QQ "nerf now" posts because players refuse to see (or simply don't get) the full picture. UtH is not an unmanageable force for an opponent to deal with. It has counters and downsides just like any other card out there. It has synergy with other cards just like most (I won't claim all...) have. Some cards are more synergistic than others. Those cards usually suffer when played solo, or reduced effects in non-ideal circumstances, both of which apply to UtH.

02/27/2014 11:30 AMPosted by venicide420
turn 6 against a hunter or turn 8 they always seem to have a UTH.

Exaggerations, Points, Dull, Make.
Make a sentence out of those 4 words.

Btw, turn 4, using 2 Leper Gnomes, is only leaving room for a single 2 mana Charge (or 2 1 mana charge) on top of 2x Leper Gnomes and 3x HPs. And that is counting in turn 4.

3 2/1 or worse minions by turn 4 is a rather weak board, ironically, so maybe that 6 to the face damage is not as bad all things considering.
Reply Quote
Posts: 65
02/27/2014 11:50 AMPosted by Verdash
I am saying that UtH and Flamestrike handle their AOE differently. UtH can funnel but affected by taunt, Flamestrike ignores the Taunt mechanic but can't funnel.


This is a direct comparison.

You say everyone is exaggerating, you compare a 2 mana card to legendary and high mana cost cards and say you don't, and you use the word QQ so much....a term used by childish griefers. Judging by the way you reply to each person who has what "smells" to you like opinion...you are just a griefer who plays hunter too much. Although I am not sure how you are smelling anything through a screen.....Must be something else you're "smelling" on your side.
Edited by Infest on 2/27/2014 12:05 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 18,234
02/27/2014 12:00 PMPosted by Infest
This is a direct comparison.

But not a direct comparison where the mana cost and damage really plays a role, which you seemed very focus on Flamestrike's 7 mana cost (something I never mentioned).

02/27/2014 12:00 PMPosted by Infest
You say everyone is exaggerating, you compare a 2 mana card to legendary and high mana cost cards

Again, you are not focusing on what was being compared.

Flamestrike vs UtH: I was comparing AOE vs "charge minion per enemy minion" mechanics, not damage, not cost

Ragnaros vs UtH: I was comparing how baseless QQ centers on them both, not mechanics, not cost, not even rarity

02/27/2014 12:00 PMPosted by Infest
and you use the word QQ so much....a term used by childish griefers

Its shorter than, whining complaints that can be attributed to either a certain level of ignorance (which can be rectified), or just flat out bias seeking to make a functional card not functional, because the person writing the complain wants to be able to maintain their personal bubble of card mechanics to pay attention to, and doesn't want to have to worry about considering a possible UtH.

A.K.A. - QQ

02/27/2014 12:00 PMPosted by Infest
Judging by the way you reply to each person who has what "smells" to you like opinion

Name one time I said anything along those lines, where the statement wasn't an opinion.

02/27/2014 12:00 PMPosted by Infest
you are just a griefer who plays hunter too much.

I don't grief, I don't play nice with people on the forums some times, but generally, it is only those who ask for it. Respectful players with questions/concerns (and not whines) I generally give a respectful explanation/follow-up. Of course, I sometimes lump lazy posters who don't bother searching into the "don't play nice" category, but nobody is perfect.

Although I am not sure how you are smelling anything through a screen.....Must be something else your "smelling" on your side.

Bias is an odor that has managed to cross the digital barrier. Especially the baseless kind.
Reply Quote
Posts: 65
Pretty sure you are mistaking the odor in your room for something else. Your post seems to go over your knowledge of the term QQ and comparing Flamestrike to UtH... Congratulations on failing to argue with yourself.
Reply Quote
Posts: 966
02/27/2014 12:17 PMPosted by Infest
Pretty sure you are mistaking the odor in your room for something else. Your post seems to go over your knowledge of the term QQ and comparing Flamestrike to UtH... Congratulations on failing to argue with yourself.


Just stop.
Reply Quote
Posts: 65
Just re-read my short reply about how I think the 2 mana cost is too low for UtH. Especially when people who are on the opposing view are comparing the card to 7 and 8 mana cards like Ragnaros and Flamestrike.

Thanks.
Edited by Infest on 2/27/2014 12:24 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 7
Can I just say as well, If you believe UTH is overpowered with Timberwolf or Starving buzzard, compare timber wolf (being the hunter 1 cost minion) to Northshire Cleric/ Mana Worm, hunters are allowed cards like UTH just as mages and priests are allowed 1/3 drops with an amazing passive on turn 1 which are extremely hard to deal with in my opinion on turn 1 or 2(Especially with hunter). Also again with the mages, Arcane explosion completely wipes all of them (except Scavenging which can be dealt with by Fireballing first)
Edited by BGuardian on 2/27/2014 12:29 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 18,234
02/27/2014 12:17 PMPosted by Infest
Pretty sure you are mistaking the odor in your room for something else. Your post seems to go over your knowledge of the term QQ and comparing Flamestrike to UtH... Congratulations on failing to argue with yourself.

So...lost any legs to stand on regarding your opinion that UtH needs a nerf, and now have to change your argument to be an attack against the opposition, rather than the opposition's point?

Don't feel bad. Many people who have a baseless bias on a subject end up going down that road sooner or later.

Keep in mind, this little section started with your post of:
UTH is too good of a card. It's mana cost is way too low for what it does.


You didn't describe the situation accurately, nor do you attribute effects to their proper sources, instead you attempted to make it seem like UtH does all the work of every multiple (keyword there) card combo that required UtH.

Which, is why I say you have a baseless bias against UtH.

Keep in mind, I personally do think the entire combo package is slightly cheap (resource wise). Personally, I am completely behind Buzzard going 2/3 for 3M, or maybe Timber Wolf going 2/2 for 2M.

I have yet to see you do anymore than "UtH is the problem, change it". UtH isn't the problem, even when using your bias infested argument. The problem is synergy. And it really isn't "that" big of a problem. A reason why Buzz/TW is a better choice is:

Upping UtH: Makes it even more reliant on synergy
Upping Buzz/TW: Makes them less reliant on synergy, and still affects the combo cost

You need to think things through, before jumping to QQ (or whatever you call it).
Reply Quote
Posts: 65

The synergy between cards rarely affects the budget of the card itself, that is generally handled more as an over-all "kit" approach, rather than affecting a specific card itself.


Obviously the synergy of the card doesn't "Affect" the budget of it. That is the whole point. It's a 2 mana card which makes it quality for the term "Budget"...meaning "Cheap". The cost is low that is my one and only point if it were to be kept "as is".
Edited by Infest on 2/27/2014 12:31 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 18,234
Obviously the synergy of the card doesn't "Affect" the budget of it. That is the whole point. It's a 2 mana card which makes it quality for the term "Budget"...meaning "Cheap". The cost is low that is my one and only point if it were to be kept "as is".

Cost of what is low?

2 mana to deal 1 damage per enemy minion? Thats spot on with many cards out there (when you adjust for minor differences, i.e. cost/damage, include enemy hero or not, etc).

Or are you referring to the entire combo that UtH is only a part of?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]