How to improve my Rogue deck?

Posts: 290
So... Running a new Rogue deck (My AggRogue deck kinda fell off in strength when I encountered more big taunters and Legendaries that are hard to deal with (Like Cairne or Sylvanas))

It's going okay so far but I know that it could be improved currently running -

0 Backstab x2
1 Cold Blood x2
1 Sinister Strike x2
1 Deadly Poison x2
2 Eviscerate x2
2 Loot Hoarder x2
2 Novice Engineer x2
2 Sap x2
2 Shiv x2
3 Fan of Knives x2
3 Perdition's Blade x1 (Only got one so far)
3 Questing Adventurer x2
3 SI:7 Agent x2
5 Assassins Blade x1
5 Azure Drake x2
5 Assassinate x2

Win conditions are:
Having a Questing Adventurer survive a turn, thus enabling insane buffing an either outright killing the opponent before they draw into a hard removal (Assassinate, Execute, Polymorph, Hex, Shadow Word: Death etc) or putting them low enough they they'll die before me.

Chipping away at health until I can combo smashing them in the face with Cold Blood buffed minion.

Rare occasions, direct burn to the face is viable (Utilizing Sinister Strike and Eviscerate buffed up by Azures along with SI:7's and Perdition's)

I was thinking the next step would be to pick up a second Perdition's Blade to replace the Assassin's Blade as it's easier to combo due to being cheaper and can better burn high priority things (Things behind taunters for example - It can even straight burn into the enemy hero if necessary)

Things I was contemplating:

Gadgetzan Auctioneer - Lots of card draw, the downside is it requires burning my spells to get that card draw (Which is typically what I was looking to draw in the first place...)

Leeroy Jenkins and the Shadowstep combo - Can be effective. But I'm not too interested in this combo as it's boring to rely on it like most Miracle Rogue decks do (It's like my Warrior Enrage deck only less interesting since it's literally the same combo every time)

Mana Addict - Looks like it could provide some early-mid game pressure by getting significant damage from necessary removals - Likely would replace Novice Engineers

VanCleef - A potentially beefy target in early-mid game, can force out removals making QA more likely to stick. Best case scenario bring out a decently buffed VC after using necessary removals and then utilizing him for a Cold Blood combo. - Likely would replace a Sap (I don't often need more than 1 Sap per game)

Headcrack - Potential for enhancing direct burn, putting pressure on the opponent to act and thus play into my removals. - Likely would replace a single Deadly Poison with one.
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Posts: 24
Hey there! I've played rogue almost exclusively since last October when I got into the beta. In the current meta I've only found a couple forms of decks to help me climb the ladder, which are tempo variants and the miracle deck.

You seem to be doing fairly well with your deck. If I could offer any criticism, it would be that your deck seems to be going for a combination of miracle, tempo and spell power aspects. I would suggest to hone more in on one specific quality (tempo, spellpower miracle, - I wouldn't recommend miracle without every necessary card such as Prepx2, GAx2, Leeroy, SS, ect.). Some cards I would recommend taking a look at possibly replacing depending on the end goal for your deck would be:

1 Sinister Strike X2
2 Novice Engineer X2
5 Assassinate x 1

Shiv, Sap, FoK, CB, QA are more dependent on which direction you're looking to build towards. Some minions you haven't listed that I might consider crafting would be Harvest Golem, Argent Squire, Defender of Argus, and Argent Commander. These guys are all excellent neutral minions that also see a lot of use in other decks. I'm currently on mobile w/o computer access, but I can offer more information or my deck lists later. There are a lot of good resources on the Internet you can you use to analyze and tweak your deck such as hearthhead, hearthpwn, R/Hearthstone, and the rogue forum. Also, Twitch is a great resource because there are a lot of great rogue streamers from which you can learn from to better your game. Rogue is one of the most rewarding classes in my opinion because a lot of times there are more decisions to be made than other classes (when do I go for the face vs controlling the board?, When do I play this combo instead of this combo). I've found that watching the streamers and reading the forums has helped me enormously with my decision-making.

I wouldn't recommend crafting many of the legendaries until you've got most of better neutrals / class common, rare, and epic cards finished. VanCleef is great, but he is not essential for any of my decks. He can be replaced for other cards fairly easily, and at a cost of 1600 dust, I opted to wait until I had some other things completed. I only run the auctioneer in my miracle deck. I would not recommend the mana addict. Headcrack is something I have tinkered with in the past; however, I just don't see a place for it right now unless you were running spellpower (and probably not even then). In my opinion, Leeroy is the number one legendary to craft for rogues. While I don't use him in every deck, I use him in a couple right now. And in the past I've run him in many of my rogue decks. He's just too good of a finisher for his value. This test season I've played roughly 75%+ miracle rogue with Leeroy, and I've been doing very well with it.

I run a few different versions of my tempo variant including more of an aggro deck and mid / late range decks. Good luck!
Edited by soupnazi on 3/5/2014 5:21 PM PST
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Posts: 34
If you're trying to buff up a Questing, it helps a lot to have Conceal.
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Posts: 110
I've buffed up Questing Adv. with Master of Disguise many times, which has helped me win my fair share of games.

Also, I like that Patient Assassin on turn 2 can really screw up what the opponent wants to play for the next few turns.

Having said that, I've only been testing these things in Casual so I'm not sure how viable these strategies are in Ranked.
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Posts: 290
Got a potential finished deck planned out so far. Still missing a few of the Rares/Legendaries (Fortunately, there's only 1 Legendary in it that's Rogue deck only) would like to know if it needs changing (Outside of going more x2 for consistency... I had to weigh it vs effectiveness)

0 Backstab x2
1 Cold Blood x2
1 Conceal x1 (For QA Combo)
1 Deadly Poison x1
1 Sinister Strike x1 (Poison would arguably be better, but this can often be an easier combo as it doesn't require a weapon to already be out to use the 1 mana combo starter. Also, the number of games I've won with SS through Taunts makes me hesitant to drop both)
2 Bloodmage Thalnos (Essentially Loot Hoarder that helps FoK/Shiv/SS/Evisc)
2 Nat Pagle (Potentially more effective card draw than LH/Novice also will tank early removals clearing the way for the QA's/VC etc)
2 Eviscerate x2
2 Mana Addict x2 (While for the most part they're not very good they can make people burn removal on them and otherwise they can be some pretty sick burst damage or make things like Shiv better removal)
2 Sap x1 (Only really need one)
2 Shiv x2
3 Arcane Golem x1 (A slightly cheaper Leeroy both in terms of Mana and Dust. Can allow a full burst of Golem > Cold Blood x2 > Sinister Strike > Eviscerate x2 for 23 burst damage with 10 mana IF I stall long enough. Lesser bursts also work fine for finishing to)
3 VanCleef (While only useful in a few Rogue decks, still can be nice for pressure in this deck)
3 Fan of Knives x2
3 Headcrack x1 (To apply pressure aswell as setting up burn finishers. The combo makes this unnecessary to have 2 of)
3 Perdition's Blade x2
3 Questing Adventurer x2 (A couple of solid win conditions)
3 SI:7 Agent x2
4 Master of Disguise x1 (Another combo for QA or VC. Also is a 4/4 that can put on some board presence and be a target for Cold Blood. Had to decide between Azure/Inventor for a card draw or a combo maker. I also had one laying around from my Themed Rogue deck I started out with)
5 Assassinate x2 (There's too many Legendaries and Taunts for me to consider dropping one)

This makes win conditions be:

Buffed Questing Adventurer x2
Buffed VanCleef
Combo'd Arcane Golem
Health chipping combined with Combo'd minion (Especially QA/MA)
Direct burn (With health chipping from Headcrack each turn)

While there are a lot of x1's making the draw less consistent at a glance, a lot of them serve the same purpose (Initiating a combo) or only are necessary to use once in a game (Like finisher from Arcane Golem or a properly combo'd Headcrack)

Also, as you may notice I really don't like my decks focusing too much on a singular win condition setup/combo (Like the Leeroy > Shadowstep x2 > Cold Blood x2 after drawing out the entire deck with Gadgetzan Auctioneer that Miracle relies heavily on) which while it can hurt it's effectiveness, improves it's versatility and most importantly, makes it funner to play.
Edited by Taril on 3/6/2014 10:25 AM PST
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Posts: 240
Mana Addict, even though in paper seems able to provide a really strong combo and pressure, I don't think it is a good card for this deck. If you burn your spells just to get that 2 damage, you'll most likely run out of resources quickly, and that kills a deck that is going for late game comboing. And other than the buff, mana addict doesn't do much, making her not a valuable early game card and an easy to remove card late game(plus this is not exactly the card you want to see later).

Assassinate, for me, costs too much. I understand what you're going for, but I personally don't like this one.

Sap is a really really useful card to slow your opponent until you can combo your things. Plus it gets rid of those really buffed cards, often seen in priest, druids and paladin decks. I think it is really good for you.

And, in my opinion, even though you're trying to be different and not rely on leroy, your deck have some pretty specific weapons and kinda needs some specific drawing.
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Posts: 290
03/07/2014 08:33 AMPosted by Leandrovcs
If you burn your spells just to get that 2 damage, you'll most likely run out of resources quickly


The idea is not to burn spells to get 2 damage, but rather get 2 damage when I'm forced to play spells.

Stuff like needing to Sap/Assassinate a dangerous minion, needing to Deadly Poison to attack a creature, needing to play something to set up an SI:7 - You know, the kind of thing that allows a Rogue to get to late game.

It also has the side effect of either taking some removal (Because it can get powerful) or assisting in combo's for kills, due to the big combos that hurt will also buff it to also doing high damage thus making specific hands more easily attainable. - As it is, my SI:7's and Loot Hoarders are being hit by removals because I don't keep the board full of minions, only playing what is necessary to maintain board control and waiting until I see one of my win conditions to turn up (Be it gathering Cold Blood's or my burns)

Having non-Questings/VC's removed allowing them to be more easily played is a great thing in this deck.

03/07/2014 08:33 AMPosted by Leandrovcs
Assassinate, for me, costs too much. I understand what you're going for, but I personally don't like this one.


I cannot live without Assassinate. There's too many Divine Shields, big Taunts, and Fatties that without an Assassinate would cost me easily 4+ cards and 6-8 health. Even more so are the big guys that have Battlecry that Sap would be literally the worst thing to do (Things like GoK, or Ragnaros come to mind)

03/07/2014 08:33 AMPosted by Leandrovcs
Sap is a really really useful card to slow your opponent until you can combo your things. Plus it gets rid of those really buffed cards, often seen in priest, druids and paladin decks. I think it is really good for you.


I agree, Sap can be useful. But I've not encountered a time when I've needed more than 2 in a deck. Either because the opponent only draws into one of their buff cards (Usually Druids use MotW as a last resort when I'm facing lethal because they can't get board control for example) or because I can hit a win condition that doesn't rely on taking notice of the buffed minion.

03/07/2014 08:33 AMPosted by Leandrovcs
And, in my opinion, even though you're trying to be different and not rely on leroy, your deck have some pretty specific weapons and kinda needs some specific drawing.


From my experience so far, I've not been in a situation where I've not been able to get at least one of my win conditions in hand. The execution can take a bit of luck on the opponents draws (Stuff like a top decked Flamestrike, Aldor Peacekeeper on a 2 turn combo or multiple heals constantly bringing the opponent out of combo range while whittling me down or something)

Between cycling cards like Shiv, FoK, Thalnos (Also Loot Hoarders while I still save up for Pagle + Thalnos) - There's a decent chance of drawing into the necessary cards. With Pagle later, getting to potentially game securing card advantage early game. There hasn't been too much going wrong with drawing. Especially not with the amount of removal making it possible to stall for a very long time.
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Posts: 240
03/07/2014 09:34 AMPosted by Taril
The idea is not to burn spells to get 2 damage, but rather get 2 damage when I'm forced to play spells.


I understand. I had the same idea when I put a mana addict in my deck. I thought she would be really strong.
But after playing some games, I felt that mana addict was not making that much of a difference. Sometimes I'd rather even have an extra card in hand and dagger up instead of playing her.
There were some games I could get some really good value off her, but it mostly comes from my opponent having a bad deck or misplaying.
But since your deck has a kind of a different playstyle, she might work better with you. Or if you're happy with the results you have from her, keep her.

03/07/2014 09:34 AMPosted by Taril
I cannot live without Assassinate. There's too many Divine Shields, big Taunts, and Fatties that without an Assassinate would cost me easily 4+ cards and 6-8 health. Even more so are the big guys that have Battlecry that Sap would be literally the worst thing to do (Things like GoK, or Ragnaros come to mind)


I understand, I used to run assassinate too. But I took a turn towards trying to finish the game at that point. I don't think I have any way to control the match when that point comes. At least not the way I build my deck(I dont think any miracle can). At that point I'm trying to get a big combo and finish the game. Sap is the card I try to save for that moment.
But I understand your logic. Maybe the different mechanic of your deck give assassinate a bigger window of opportunites and doesnt slow you down as much as it slows me.

Here is the deck I run, just out of curiosity:
http://i.imgur.com/JqnUFen.png
I play f2p and these cards came from running arenas. I dont plan on crafting a leeroy(the legendary I'd craft atm), I'd rather craft cards to other decks, that way I can have different gameplays.

EDIT:
OMG I just ran one arena today, after this post, and got SUPER lucky with the pack, got a blood mage thalnos from it! :D
He is now where the kobold was.
I am kind of considering disenchanting him, puting the kobold back and crafting 4 rares for another deck, but I'll probably keep it since the wipe is coming and I think a legendary will be worth more gold for me.
Edited by Leandrovcs on 3/8/2014 11:44 AM PST
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