Buff Naturalize

Posts: 281
Play this card is a risk !
It would be better pay 2 manas and opponent draw one card.
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Posts: 374
i agree.. buff naturalize.. and nerf other druid stuff.
Edited by RatedGG on 3/11/2014 6:35 AM PDT
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Posts: 7,595
I'm all for Naturalize getting looked into, right now it's only really useful in extreme rush druid decks, which there aren't a ton of (and in most cases could be switched out for silence for the same effect)
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Posts: 2,712
I'd like to see naturalize buffed, perhaps 2 mana, opponent draws one card. Even with the 1 mana cost, an automatic 3 for 1 for your opponent is almost never worth it.

To balance out a Druid buff, they should look into creative ways to nerf the Savage Roar+Forces of Nature combo. I can't think of any besides a complete rework of forces of nature, perhaps losing the charge but giving them all taunt.

I may run one naturalize now anyway so I have a way to deal with Tirion/Ysera, but Ysera being a 4 for 1 is just crazy. I am considering running Harrison Jones as well, worst case it is one mana above cost for a 5/4, best case I am better against weapon decks and can hard counter tirion with Naturalize+Harrison Jones.

BGH will probably become even more popular, to the point where Blizzard might be concerned that he is in too many decks in high level play.
Edited by KPT on 3/11/2014 6:59 AM PDT
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Posts: 4,595
Wouldn't druid having a viable hard removal make the class a little bit OP?
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Posts: 1,227
Druid's hard removal is their ability to get huge creatures and just beat the opposing minion to death. They don't need a card that does it.
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03/11/2014 07:01 AMPosted by Dissentient
Wouldn't druid having a viable hard removal make the class a little bit OP?


All classes have viable hard removal EXCEPT Druid (you could say pally does since theirs is a combo, but equality+pyro/consecration is arguably the strongest combo in the game). A legitimate option should be available for all classes. However, since Druid is already strong, albeit with a gaping hole that was somewhat filled by Tinkmaster, a nerf elsewhere would be appropriate. Forces of Nature + Savage Roar is one of their more ridiculous combos that should be looked into. I think the following changes would do wonders:

Savage Roar: Give all of your minions +2 attack (No longer affect hero)
Forces of nature: Summon 3 2/2 treants with taunt.
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03/11/2014 07:09 AMPosted by Astrohawke
Druid's hard removal is their ability to get huge creatures and just beat the opposing minion to death. They don't need a card that does it.


I'm not sure you know what "hard" removal is. Their powerful class specific minions, like ironbark and ancient of war, do little against a Ysera.
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Posts: 492
03/11/2014 07:10 AMPosted by KPT
Forces of nature: Summon 3 2/2 treants with taunt.


oh no please. Thats terribly powerful. It'll be like a super feral spirits. Druid doesnt need more taunt wth?
Edited by TagerTao12 on 3/11/2014 7:14 AM PDT
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03/11/2014 07:09 AMPosted by Astrohawke
Druid's hard removal is their ability to get huge creatures and just beat the opposing minion to death. They don't need a card that does it.


having one or even two big minions on the board isn't as useful as you might think.

druid's are very weak without their legendary support cards in my experience.

or relying on savage roar + force of nature.
Edited by StRaItJaCkEt on 3/11/2014 7:17 AM PDT
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Posts: 156
03/11/2014 07:10 AMPosted by KPT
Wouldn't druid having a viable hard removal make the class a little bit OP?


All classes have viable hard removal EXCEPT Druid (you could say pally does since theirs is a combo, but equality+pyro/consecration is arguably the strongest combo in the game). A legitimate option should be available for all classes. However, since Druid is already strong, albeit with a gaping hole that was somewhat filled by Tinkmaster, a nerf elsewhere would be appropriate. Forces of Nature + Savage Roar is one of their more ridiculous combos that should be looked into. I think the following changes would do wonders:

Savage Roar: Give all of your minions +2 attack (No longer affect hero)
Forces of nature: Summon 3 2/2 treants with taunt.


So how do i remove that Ysera,Cairne, and 101 other 4/x without two combo cards that will rarely be in my hand as priest?
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Posts: 1,227
03/11/2014 07:13 AMPosted by KPT
Druid's hard removal is their ability to get huge creatures and just beat the opposing minion to death. They don't need a card that does it.


I'm not sure you know what "hard" removal is. Their powerful class specific minions, like ironbark and ancient of war, do little against a Ysera.


Well their keeper of the grove basically renders Ysera pretty useless.
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03/11/2014 07:13 AMPosted by TagerTao12
oh no please. Thats terribly powerful. It'll be like a super feral spirits.


Hahaha well for 6 mana it'd be ok I think. Charge is a much stronger mechanic than taunt, which is why charge minions take a much larger stat penalty (ie at 6 mana, Lord of the Arena is a 6/5, Reckless Rocketeer is a 5/2).

Right now Forces of Nature is ridiculously strong, and combos with Savage Roar for 14 damage not even including the buffs to any minions already on board.
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03/11/2014 07:01 AMPosted by Dissentient
Wouldn't druid having a viable hard removal make the class a little bit OP?


I'd turn the question around, if the hard removal the druid has isn't viable then why have it at all?

It doesn't have to be the best hard removal, the OPs suggestion of a slightly higher cost and only giving one card seems fairly good (maybe raise the cost to 3 or 4), as it's still unique and cycles the card. This is still a 2 for 1 deal for your opponent, but at least it's not throwing the game over guaranteed to your opponent like current naturalize does in many situations.
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Posts: 80
I see the reason for naturalize buff but its such a nice draft card usually if I draft druid ill get 3+ of these. (I don't draft swipes they just don't show for me)
I mean i'm not the best arena player I cant get higher then platinum have made it several times. (been playing CCG's for 15 years I accept that my luck makes people laugh)
There are cards designed with draft in mind and not the "standard" format these should be left alone, I feel this card may be one of those and should be left alone but if not it could use some tweeks for normal play.

Druid is drafted for me if I cant get hunter or pally (Mage HATES me as does priest)
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03/11/2014 07:21 AMPosted by Pinprik
I see the reason for naturalize buff but its such a nice draft card usually if I draft druid ill get 3+ of these. (I don't draft swipes they just don't show for me)
I mean i'm not the best arena player I cant get higher then platinum have made it several times. (been playing CCG's for 15 years I accept that my luck makes people laugh)
There are cards designed with draft in mind and not the "standard" format these should be left alone, I feel this card may be one of those and should be left alone but if not it could use some tweeks for normal play.

Druid is drafted for me if I cant get hunter or pally (Mage HATES me as does priest)


thanks for the free win in arena

you must have been that guy who used 3 naturalizes on me before.
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03/11/2014 07:21 AMPosted by Pinprik
There are cards designed with draft in mind and not the "standard" format these should be left alone, I feel this card may be one of those and should be left alone but if not it could use some tweeks for normal play.


I'm not sure there are cards that are designed for arena, arena was always intended to be a side game from the main game of constructed play.

There are some cards that I know are kept at their current level that are subpar for constructed, just due to their strength in the minion-heavy nature of arena (demolisher comes to mind), but I don't believe Naturalize is one of those cards. If anything, I find naturalize to be worse in arena, because it gives opponent card draw you may not have been able to draft yourself.
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Posts: 1,534
03/11/2014 07:21 AMPosted by Pinprik
I see the reason for naturalize buff but its such a nice draft card usually if I draft druid ill get 3+ of these. (I don't draft swipes they just don't show for me)
I mean i'm not the best arena player I cant get higher then platinum have made it several times. (been playing CCG's for 15 years I accept that my luck makes people laugh)
There are cards designed with draft in mind and not the "standard" format these should be left alone, I feel this card may be one of those and should be left alone but if not it could use some tweeks for normal play.

Druid is drafted for me if I cant get hunter or pally (Mage HATES me as does priest)


Unless you plan to flood your opponents hand with other cards like say Mukla or Coldlight Oracle and Brewmasters Naturalize will make you lose games more often than not. The most important thing in this game is card advantage more than anything else especially in longer matches. If you run out of cards before your opponent there's a big chance you lose the game. Removing 1 threat does not make up for that. You just gave your opponent potentially his next threat a round or two earlier.
Edited by Serp on 3/11/2014 7:33 AM PDT
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Posts: 967
I actually don't mind Naturalize in it's current form.

Yes it draws the enemy 2 cards. However, it's ONE mana. ONE.

It goes through divine shield. It's like siphon soul except 5 mana cheaper. There are so many combos you can play with it. People like to *think* it's bad because it draws cards for your opponent. But last I checked your opponent is still restricted to playing with the mana given to them.

I find naturalize to be a wash in terms of what it does, it regains board control, but lets them keep hand size. It's super cheap, and meant to be used judiciously. Just like all other hard removals. Except other classes that get played don't use it judiciously.

Do you all understand what that term means? "having, exercising, or characterized by sound judgment"

Essentially it means to use your hard removal CAREFULLY. You should be weighing your options with ANY classes hard removal. Instead people aim to use their hard removal on anything in their way. With druids, you don't have that option. You have to think "Do I really want to remove this card from play, but let them draw 2 cards? Is it worth it?"

The problem isn't Naturalize. The problem is players who are used to not having to be smart about using their hard removal.
Edited by Sykomyke on 3/11/2014 7:34 AM PDT
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