An Honest look at Unleash the Hounds

Posts: 1,273
03/13/2014 07:07 AMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
Make the card cost 4 mana. This makes being able to cast the card twice far more difficult.


they tried that it sucked then it would suck again
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Posts: 70
I suggested this in another thread, but I'll suggest it again. Given Blizzard's design goal for the card, it should be changed to:

For each enemy minion, summon a 1/1 Hound with Charge. Give all enemy minions taunt until the end of the turn.

It still has great combo effect with other cards, but can no longer be used to just hit people in the face with a card that is supposed to be an AoE to clear out creatures when you fall behind.
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Posts: 636
Every hunter I have seen post in EVERY thread says the same thing. "Only bad players can't play around it." In rank Eleven without spending a dime on this game, so I know I am not bad, I beat people packing tons of legendary cards.

This has happened while playing against EVERY hunter so far today. Not an exaggeration, EVERY hunter. I keep 2 minions on the board ALL game. Out play them until they are down to 3 cards in hand and ZERO board. I have a grip and board position. I am normally down to 15-19 hp because of misdirection/explosive trap/steady shot. Then here it comes. Turn 5-7 EVERY game. Buzzard into unleash. He gets to draw two cards for ONE (arcane intellect.) Here comes timberwolf, draws another card. 5 mana for draw 3 cards, 3x 2/1 and a 1/1. That is 5 mana with a payout of 7 power and 4 health and draw 3 cards. This is possible on turn 5 with EASE. There is ZERO turn 5 plays in all of hearthstone with this much value coming from an EMPTY board. People say warriors have strong combos with armor smith/acolyte/WW plays, but it doesnt TOUCH the ease of this combo. God forbid they draw into a 2nd unleash the hounds when its turn 7 or a second timberwolf on turn 6, once again with the amount of stall this deck has and 2x tracking, not hard. Every single hunter saying its hard to assemble the combo, you are a bold face liar and full of crap.

If you can tell me how I am a bad player for outplaying a hunter to where i have card advantage, board advantage, and 2 minions on board so I am not fueling UTH, then they STILL get such insane value they get to refill their hand enough to face roll my last 15 hp, please tell me. The entire game he didnt interact with my board except for UTH combo turn. The rest of the entire game there was zero interaction. Blizzard even says this is exactly what they DONT want. Its just bad hunters who dont want to have to earn their wins.
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Posts: 272
Yepp it's really easy to get a 2-3card combo in 9 cards especially since they got atleast 2traps too .. so you say actually say:

A hunter EVERY time gets the right 4-5cards out of the 11 they can draw with a full mulligan and the 5turn draws..

just wish i was that lucky .. i usually gets the buzz+UtH about 1games out of 5 in the first 5 turns and during a full game i get it 2-3 times of those 5 and often when i get it late in the game .. my sucking beasts already lost the game and not even a perfect combo can save me
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Posts: 895
Tournament results as "justification" of how weak Hunters are is a failing argument. 99.99% of Hearthstone players will never play in a tournament where Hunters "suck." They will, however, play in Ranked and Casual mode play where Hunters run rampant throughout the ladder and various MMR system. The last 6 games I've played, 4 have been Hunter.

I don't use the term lightly but Hunters really are toxic. They have a terrible design and win or lose I hate playing against them. Again, I don't use the word lightly, but they really are "unfun" to use Blizzard's word.
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Posts: 1,032
03/15/2014 05:03 AMPosted by Silke
Tournament results as "justification" of how weak Hunters are is a failing argument. 99.99% of Hearthstone players will never play in a tournament where Hunters "suck." They will, however, play in Ranked and Casual mode play where Hunters run rampant throughout the ladder and various MMR system. The last 6 games I've played, 4 have been Hunter.

I don't use the term lightly but Hunters really are toxic. They have a terrible design and win or lose I hate playing against them. Again, I don't use the word lightly, but they really are "unfun" to use Blizzard's word.


well, I hate playing against warlock decks, but you dont see me calling for them to nerf warlocks.
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Posts: 173
If you are at rank 20-10, almost no clue what you are doing, the deck may be too strong in hands of clueless ppl. The suggestion that it should cost 4 mana is stupid though. Hunters simply didn't bother playing that card at that mana cost.

Not to mention two reasons why the deck is popular are it's cheap and it has fair chance against warlock zoo. If you are too annoyed by it just play druid. That class has 90% win ration against rush hunter.
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Posts: 1,032
03/15/2014 08:39 AMPosted by Repefin
If you are at rank 20-10, almost no clue what you are doing, the deck may be too strong in hands of clueless ppl. The suggestion that it should cost 4 mana is stupid though. Hunters simply didn't bother playing that card at that mana cost.

Not to mention two reasons why the deck is popular are it's cheap and it has fair chance against warlock zoo. If you are too annoyed by it just play druid. That class has 90% win ration against rush hunter.


This.

Nothing quite satisfies like seeing a warlock zoo deck get crushed by a largely budget deck that just happens to be able to dictate tempo to it.
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Posts: 636
03/15/2014 08:39 AMPosted by Repefin
If you are at rank 20-10, almost no clue what you are doing, the deck may be too strong in hands of clueless ppl. The suggestion that it should cost 4 mana is stupid though. Hunters simply didn't bother playing that card at that mana cost.

Not to mention two reasons why the deck is popular are it's cheap and it has fair chance against warlock zoo. If you are too annoyed by it just play druid. That class has 90% win ration against rush hunter.


This aren't arguments. If a deck is being so oppressive you HAVE to play druid or can't beat it with other decks there is a problem. And seeing as how ranked and casual is random, you cant sit there and plan for when you are going to run into a hunter.

The reason hunters don't see tournament play is not because they are bad, it is because they can be counter picked. In ranked you CANT counter pick. You have to play a deck that can do well vs 9 different classes. To build your deck to specifically beat hunters leaves you vulnerable to 8 other classes. So you hunters saying just play a deck that beats hunters shows how little you know about balance.
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Posts: 173
03/15/2014 09:56 AMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
This aren't arguments. If a deck is being so oppressive you HAVE to play druid or can't beat it with other decks there is a problem. And seeing as how ranked and casual is random, you cant sit there and plan for when you are going to run into a hunter.

The reason hunters don't see tournament play is not because they are bad, it is because they can be counter picked. In ranked you CANT counter pick. You have to play a deck that can do well vs 9 different classes. To build your deck to specifically beat hunters leaves you vulnerable to 8 other classes. So you hunters saying just play a deck that beats hunters shows how little you know about balance.


The deck at best is average in competitive play. I suggested to play druid to auto win against it. I assume the reason why ppl whine about it is at low skill levels it's easier to build and get wins with it than it is with other decks. The closer you get to legenary ranks the less you will see of either warlock zoo or hunter rush.

Spouting blank statements like lets nerf this and that is stupid. It's not like legendary ranks are full of hunters ... there are few here and there who struggled to get so far. Saying lets nerf the class because at my rank 20 they are too strong would only make them even less usable at ranks where the game is competitive.

UTH wombo combos are too annoying to newbies ... we get it. But you can't just blank nerf it. There has to be someting to balance the class back to be usable at high ranks as well.
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Posts: 528
Duke~

I have the same problem. If I want to build counter hunter I have to throw out any chance vs 1/2 the classes. There for as you say to be good vs hunter almost means being terrible against all others.

Consider this. Hunter is crushed by druid/warrior with 56% win rates. Shaman by the odds crush druid/warrior with 56% win rates and vs hunter is 44%. How is it possible shaman crushes the thing that crushes hunter but is crushed by hunter... I dont get it.
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Posts: 1,265
03/15/2014 01:36 PMPosted by CombatMist
How is it possible shaman crushes the thing that crushes hunter but is crushed by hunter... I dont get it.


How is it possible rock crushes the thing that crushes paper but is crushed by paper herp derp
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Posts: 1,030
I've been on MtG high level competitive scene for years and if there is something I really understand it it card design. I am really trying not to be biased now because I play a rush hunter and it got me to rank 10 really fast. The card is not broken or OP because you can PLAY AROUND IT. If you are in a ranked match vs hunter don't be stupid and fill your field with minions because all hunters have UtH. It is simple logic. If you have 1-2 strong minions on the field UtH is next to useless. Most that your opponent can get from it is a 2 card draw. The card is balanced. You just need to learn how to play vs hunter. Simple as that.
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Posts: 895
03/15/2014 04:22 PMPosted by Ajduk
I've been on MtG high level competitive scene for years and if there is something I really understand it it card design. I am really trying not to be biased now because I play a rush hunter and it got me to rank 10 really fast. The card is not broken or OP because you can PLAY AROUND IT. If you are in a ranked match vs hunter don't be stupid and fill your field with minions because all hunters have UtH. It is simple logic. If you have 1-2 strong minions on the field UtH is next to useless. Most that your opponent can get from it is a 2 card draw. The card is balanced. You just need to learn how to play vs hunter. Simple as that.

The problem is that if you are using one or two strong minions, you're asking to have them Deadly Shot or Multi-Shot or Explosive shot or Misdirected into your own face. That's a problem with Hunters: Play too many minions and they UTH Combo you down in a turn. Play too few minions and the Hunter simply plinks you away while killing your minions off. You simply can't say "just don't flood the board noob" because the Hunter has ways to punish the opponent regardless of the number of minions played.

Again, it's not hard to counter Hunters but doing so makes a deck really bad against the other 8 classes. It's not fun building a deck to counter 1 class out of 9 but it's something we either have to do since hunters are so numerous or we run it ourselves. It's an extremely annoying catch 22 Blizzard forced us into.
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Posts: 1,273
Again, it's not hard to counter Hunters but doing so makes a deck really bad against the other 8 classes. It's not fun building a deck to counter 1 class out of 9 but it's something we either have to do since hunters are so numerous or we run it ourselves. It's an extremely annoying catch 22 Blizzard forced us into.


but before the buff all you had to do is make a deck for the 8 other classes and the 9th is a free win a catch 22
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Posts: 1,265
The problem is that if you are using one or two strong minions, you're asking to have them Deadly Shot or Multi-Shot or Explosive shot or Misdirected into your own face. That's a problem with Hunters: Play too many minions and they UTH Combo you down in a turn. Play too few minions and the Hunter simply plinks you away while killing your minions off. You simply can't say "just don't flood the board noob" because the Hunter has ways to punish the opponent regardless of the number of minions played.


Aggro hunters don't even run any of those cards except misdirect. Control hunters won't be rushing your face with UtH, they will use it to clear board as was intended. Your complaints are moot.
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Posts: 173
03/15/2014 01:36 PMPosted by CombatMist
I have the same problem. If I want to build counter hunter I have to throw out any chance vs 1/2 the classes. There for as you say to be good vs hunter almost means being terrible against all others.


That's odd. Warlock, warrior, mage, druid, shaman, rogue all have solid matchup against hunter. You don't have to build deck specially against rush hunter. Just build strong deck with any of these classes.

Paladin and priest struggle against rush in general. That's not problem of the rush decks but of those two classes.
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Posts: 636
Once again, please tell me how its fair that a hunter gets to wipe my board, draw 2-4 cards depending on turn 5 or 7, and possibly keep board position after because I outplayed him all game and I had 2 creatures on board. This has happened game, after game, after game. Or the UTH combo is enough to give them enoug fuel to get rid of the last 15 hp i have because I have had to deal with traps and a bow that gets infinite durability all game.
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Posts: 173
03/16/2014 07:54 AMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
Once again, please tell me how its fair that a hunter gets to wipe my board, draw 2-4 cards depending on turn 5 or 7, and possibly keep board position after because I outplayed him all game and I had 2 creatures on board. This has happened game, after game, after game. Or the UTH combo is enough to give them enoug fuel to get rid of the last 15 hp i have because I have had to deal with traps and a bow that gets infinite durability all game.


He wipes your board with 2-4 1/1 hounds ? That explains everything by itself I think. The only time hounds wipe board is if enemy is rush deck as well or has severly damaged minions all around. The only popular rush deck right now is warlock zoo which has fair match up against hunter rush. Against anything else UTH does not wipe the board. It barely takes care of single druid of the claw in taunt mode.

And drawing 2-4 cards after spending 2 cards ... well it's the one and only draw engine hunter has available. Without UTH Buzzard is unplayable card.
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Posts: 636
03/16/2014 08:13 AMPosted by Repefin
Once again, please tell me how its fair that a hunter gets to wipe my board, draw 2-4 cards depending on turn 5 or 7, and possibly keep board position after because I outplayed him all game and I had 2 creatures on board. This has happened game, after game, after game. Or the UTH combo is enough to give them enoug fuel to get rid of the last 15 hp i have because I have had to deal with traps and a bow that gets infinite durability all game.


He wipes your board with 2-4 1/1 hounds ? That explains everything by itself I think. The only time hounds wipe board is if enemy is rush deck as well or has severly damaged minions all around. The only popular rush deck right now is warlock zoo which has fair match up against hunter rush. Against anything else UTH does not wipe the board. It barely takes care of single druid of the claw in taunt mode.

And drawing 2-4 cards after spending 2 cards ... well it's the one and only draw engine hunter has available. Without UTH Buzzard is unplayable card.


Or he has hunter mark, or they are damaged from bow, or explosive trap. The card is oppressive. The fact that against ANY hunter you are not allowed to have more than 2 minions out at a time is proof. There is NO other TCG where there is a COMMON card that completely dictates how you HAVE to play against someone.
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