An Honest look at Unleash the Hounds

Posts: 173
03/16/2014 09:37 AMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
Or he has hunter mark, or they are damaged from bow, or explosive trap. The card is oppressive. The fact that against ANY hunter you are not allowed to have more than 2 minions out at a time is proof. There is NO other TCG where there is a COMMON card that completely dictates how you HAVE to play against someone.


Yeah, so he uses 4-5 cards to clear your board ... wow. That's op. That you can't have more than 2 minions out ... tell it to druid. They are happy to put 4-5 taunt minions on board buffing their effective health to 50-60 ... let's whine about that.
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Posts: 1,001
I'm finding that this UTH/Aggro deck takes a good card draw to play effectively. Now, this is the basis for most decks, but this one in particular is all about card draw. If you don't get the right cards in the first opening or the first few turns, there's no coming back.
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Posts: 4
03/15/2014 03:25 AMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
This has happened while playing against EVERY hunter so far today. Not an exaggeration, EVERY hunter. I keep 2 minions on the board ALL game. Out play them until they are down to 3 cards in hand and ZERO board. I have a grip and board position. I am normally down to 15-19 hp because of misdirection/explosive trap/steady shot. Then here it comes. Turn 5-7 EVERY game. Buzzard into unleash. He gets to draw two cards for ONE (arcane intellect.) Here comes timberwolf, draws another card. 5 mana for draw 3 cards, 3x 2/1 and a 1/1. That is 5 mana with a payout of 7 power and 4 health and draw 3 cards.

I was about to write exactly this. I'm not a bad player (around 65% winrate rank7), but every hunter game i play is exactly the same.

Actually, UTH is fine, Starving Buzzard is not.

I don't care for a bunch of 1/1 hounds, but 3 or 4 cards every single time on turn 6 for 2 mana, it is just ****ed. It doesn't matter if i have only 2 minions and taunts ready... here comes timber and boar. AND setting up for lethal Leroy or whatever on turn 7. And hey, if you're not dead, you are anyway, cause you don't have AoE in your hand.
Every. Single. Time.
And stop saying you need the right stuff in your hunter hand, with a full double-cards deck it's so basic to set-up this, odds are so incredibly high on synergy.
I tried all kind of decks, watchers, control, aggro, rush, midrange, even damn secrets, conclusion : class doesn't matter with Hunter. Buzzard+UTH is that good.

Most fun part is, when Mages were pyroblasting on turn 8, or Priest MC on turn 8, or Warriors OTK on 9, Blizz moved on those. Why?
Well first two because, blue quoted, double pyro on turn 8-9 and Tyrion insta-stealing wasn't "FUN", and the last one because there was "no counter possible".
Now we have a hunter doing turn 6-7 kill with nothing on board and no counter possible, for something that's quite the opposite of fun... and, "balance is fine". Fine..? How's that?

Around rank 12-9, out of 10 matches, about 7 are hunters.
I'm DYING for a good control match, with BRAINS.
Edited by Femto on 3/16/2014 2:30 PM PDT
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Posts: 981
03/16/2014 02:25 PMPosted by Femto
Now we have a hunter doing turn 6-7 kill


uhm all classes can kill you in 6-7 turns so you just dont like hunters doing it but its fine for all the other heros?
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Posts: 173
Now we have a hunter doing turn 6-7 kill


uhm all classes can kill you in 6-7 turns so you just dont like hunters doing it but its fine for all the other heros?


The real kicker that supposedly "control" decks can kill at turn 8 .... so turn 6-7 kill with rush. You can't really be pissed about that.
Edited by Repefin on 3/16/2014 4:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 4
Now we have a hunter doing turn 6-7 kill


uhm all classes can kill you in 6-7 turns so you just dont like hunters doing it but its fine for all the other heros?

Every other classes i can actually do something until turn 8, i never complain about good play from others players, they are always ways to counter them if you think properly enough.
There are lots of things to do, since they need minions on the board.
There is no counter to secrets explo/mis unless you play a Flare Hunter and happen to draw 1/15 odds, so you are gonna take that damage no matter what.
There is no counter to buzzard+uth, even with taunters, with 2 minions max on board. And they get marked anyway, or owl'd, or kill command if they can't get past them.
And like i said, or like it has been clearly said by OP, issue here is the draw power, not the 1/1 hounds.

Overall there is WAY too much synergy for too few mana spent. Worst is buzzard+uth+timber, 5 mana for 7/4 and 3 cards, and it's the common thing if you play hunter.

Oh sure sometimes i can kill them with 5 life remaining and two giants 9/9 argus'd on board, if they they have 2 or 3 cards i might, just might win.

Any other aggro classes they need to put stuff on the board you can counter. I don't complain about murlocks or rush warriors, it's frustating with a bad draw but you can actually SEE the stuff coming.

At this moment aggro is most effective counter to aggro. We running in circle in this meta, control decks will not get the most flavor, specially with a dull 500 wins goal in mind, which leads to one thing in my mind : boring game. And we are here for fun right? ..right?
Edited by Femto on 3/16/2014 5:01 PM PDT
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Posts: 173
03/16/2014 04:50 PMPosted by Femto
At this moment aggro is most effective counter to aggro. We running in circle in this meta, control decks will not get the most flavor, specially with a dull 500 wins goal in mind, which leads to one thing in my mind : boring game. And we are here for fun right? ..right?


No, it's not lol. Most effective counter is druid. And don't forget ... big factor here is that control decks are expensive, rush decks are not.
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Posts: 4
03/16/2014 05:14 PMPosted by Repefin
At this moment aggro is most effective counter to aggro. We running in circle in this meta, control decks will not get the most flavor, specially with a dull 500 wins goal in mind, which leads to one thing in my mind : boring game. And we are here for fun right? ..right?


No, it's not lol. Most effective counter is druid. And don't forget ... big factor here is that control decks are expensive, rush decks are not.

Druid is my main, they arent any better against it than other controls decks. Yeah it was fun in S1 until legend rank, then watcher meta in S2/3, now they are in between roles kinda, semi-control.
Yeah i had good winrate as druid against hunters, but it was when unleash was a charge buff, like back in the stone age.
Now by the time you get your stuff sunfury'd/argus'd they already have counter in their hand. And you need 4 mana at best, most time you need 6. You are dead at 6 mana.
Play agressive? Sure let's silence that watcher and wrath all the !@#$ out there, except there isnt anything to hit, and you need mana, a lot of mana.
I actually played a lot of hunters around rank5 last season, and i remember one time i had a perfect hand and draws, that time only was a clear win. Rest was a 30% winrate "im-not-dead-after unleash-but-i-have-12-life" wins. Against all other classes i had 65/70%. So yeah logic would say try some other class, but the thing is, it's the same numbers. I have like 2000 matches indexed, and hunters win the worst matchup by far on every classes.

Big factor is deck price you say? You absolutly right, that's why people are talking about toxic decks in this topic : make a low cost deck that wins a lot with no super experience needed, spread it over networks/twitch/etc. then you get thousand of them hanging around in ranked, so much that there isn't anything left to play really. And that rush mindset is even spreading to other classes aswell. Might ask why not? Because 5min games are boring.

So i guess the only thing that can be argued they want us to play to win a lot or for fun.
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Posts: 502
I like how the main argument from most of these players is to "just play druid, they beat hunters easily" so i should predict when i will RANDOMLY be matched with a hunter and play druid?

Not a single person has given a real reason why this combo isn't overpowered. The hunter stall deck does ZERO interacting while chipping away your health. You can outplay them for 5-7 turns, get card advantage, get board advantage. Then they COMPLETELY clear your board, draw cards, and gain board advantage from a DEAD board. There is ZERO other class that can do this. None.

It is an oppressive deck. "Play druid." Is not a fix to this problem as matchups are RANDOM. "Play around UTH" Is not a fix. Keeping only 2 minions on board against a class with freezing trap, misdirection, explosive trap, deadly shot, multi shot, is not reasonable. Saying "not all hunters play those removal." But you HAVE to play as though they do or else you run the risk of getting blown out by it. There is ZERO other class where you have to play around so much crap while the entire time worrying about a 5 mana wombo combo.
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Posts: 21
Without this card hunters would be unplayable again and it would ruin a perfectly functionable and enjoyable class for many players. There is nothing broken about it as it is a strong class card that is vital to the function of the class. As it is a card game, there are tactics involved and like mage's with flamestrikes if you are a smart player you are expected to play around the card and not dump your whole board in it or anything you think is not 'good value' i.e. if you force the player to play UTH when you have 2 minions out is good value.
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Posts: 173
03/16/2014 11:35 PMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
I like how the main argument from most of these players is to "just play druid, they beat hunters easily" so i should predict when i will RANDOMLY be matched with a hunter and play druid?

Not a single person has given a real reason why this combo isn't overpowered. The hunter stall deck does ZERO interacting while chipping away your health. You can outplay them for 5-7 turns, get card advantage, get board advantage. Then they COMPLETELY clear your board, draw cards, and gain board advantage from a DEAD board. There is ZERO other class that can do this. None.

It is an oppressive deck. "Play druid." Is not a fix to this problem as matchups are RANDOM. "Play around UTH" Is not a fix. Keeping only 2 minions on board against a class with freezing trap, misdirection, explosive trap, deadly shot, multi shot, is not reasonable. Saying "not all hunters play those removal." But you HAVE to play as though they do or else you run the risk of getting blown out by it. There is ZERO other class where you have to play around so much crap while the entire time worrying about a 5 mana wombo combo.


All these outplays and complete outplays are funny. If you really knew how to outplay hunter players, you wouldn't be whining about the class. And the argument to play druid is for auto win. Like I suck so much against hunter my only chance are decks with 70-90% win ration against them, thus druid. Otherwise there is plenthora of decks that have fair matchup against rush hunter. Warrior, shaman, mage, warlock, rogue, druid ... take your pick.

And reason why this combo is not overpowered is simple. Ppl have good win rations against hunters despite it. The only argument that can be made is that at low skill levels the combo is too strong. But then again there is warlock zoo where you just lay down minion after minion and attack with them. UTH at least needs a set up.
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Posts: 514


All these outplays and complete outplays are funny. If you really knew how to outplay hunter players, you wouldn't be whining about the class. And the argument to play druid is for auto win. Like I suck so much against hunter my only chance are decks with 70-90% win ration against them, thus druid. Otherwise there is plenthora of decks that have fair matchup against rush hunter. Warrior, shaman, mage, warlock, rogue, druid ... take your pick.

And reason why this combo is not overpowered is simple. Ppl have good win rations against hunters despite it. The only argument that can be made is that at low skill levels the combo is too strong. But then again there is warlock zoo where you just lay down minion after minion and attack with them. UTH at least needs a set up.


are you sure rouges and shaman have a fair match up against hunters? not sure about warlocks either, especially giants
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Posts: 173
03/17/2014 02:24 AMPosted by Attila
are you sure rouges and shaman have a fair match up against hunters? not sure about warlocks either, especially giants


Shamans definitelly. Giants ... personaly I like to see zoo warlock much more than giants with rush hunter. If you rush them, you can end up facing 2-3 9/9 taunters that will finish you in 2 rounds. If you don't rush them the same thing can happen. It's hard match up for either side. Even control warrior is easier match up than giants.

Rogues with a normal deck I think they do fine as well, with miracle not so much. But my sample size for rogues is very small.
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Posts: 502
Here we go, this is a prime example of a Hunter getting to steal wins. I am at effective 23hp, hunter is at 6. I have a Korkron elite out and an armorsmith. His board is a highmane. He has 3 cards in hand. Here it comes. Buzzard/UTH. Draws 2 cards. Down comes hyena and houndmaster on his highmane. Kills my korkron. Effective 24 HP, hits me in the face for a couple damage. WW does nothing but put lethal on board from hyena combo. No execute for highmane, but it would only negate 6 damage he could EASILY put out next turn anyways. Every play in my hand he can run his hounds into and just make hyena even bigger. He needs 2 damage to LETHAL me coming from a board with ONE minion and only a few cards in hand. Plays rhino GG.

During this entire game here is what he did before wombo combo for the free win. He played 2 explosive traps, 1 bow, 1 shield masta, and 1 animal companion. At no point did any of those interact with my minions if i wasnt killing them. Of course steady shot every time he had mana.

Please explain how i was a "bad player" and i wasnt "playing around UTH." I was at near full health, even board and had plenty of card advantage. I had TWO minions on the board. Yet he still herp derp UTH combo'd to get 100% board control, EVEN card AND put me into lethal damage from TWENTY FOUR health, by spending 4 mana.
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Posts: 5
i have played an extensive amount of HS and while you guys complain about UtH being overpowered, mages get away with substantial wins with simple board control. There are a lot of things that's overpowered with this card game, but UtH certainly isn't one of them. As the old wow troll saying goes, QQ, learn2play.
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Posts: 173
03/17/2014 02:08 PMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
Please explain how i was a "bad player" and i wasnt "playing around UTH." I was at near full health, even board and had plenty of card advantage. I had TWO minions on the board. Yet he still herp derp UTH combo'd to get 100% board control, EVEN card AND put me into lethal damage from TWENTY FOUR health, by spending 4 mana.


You are being too uptight. Warriors game plan against hunter is to armor up and put pressure on hunter. Hunters plan is to stall the game, wear warrior down and then burst him. It's pretty fair matchup that this time the hunter has won. Next time hunter can be the one crying that gaining 20 armor while putting out enough damage to kill him by turn 9 is op, nerf warriors.
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Posts: 502
03/17/2014 04:22 PMPosted by Repefin
Please explain how i was a "bad player" and i wasnt "playing around UTH." I was at near full health, even board and had plenty of card advantage. I had TWO minions on the board. Yet he still herp derp UTH combo'd to get 100% board control, EVEN card AND put me into lethal damage from TWENTY FOUR health, by spending 4 mana.


You are being too uptight. Warriors game plan against hunter is to armor up and put pressure on hunter. Hunters plan is to stall the game, wear warrior down and then burst him. It's pretty fair matchup that this time the hunter has won. Next time hunter can be the one crying that gaining 20 armor while putting out enough damage to kill him by turn 9 is op, nerf warriors.


This is the worst argument I have ever seen. The hunter to burst takes a 2 mana common and a 2 mana basic and makingZERO smart plays and not interacting with the board. The warrior takes tons of different plays, interacting with both sides of the board WHILE playing around a stupidly undercosted combo.

If you actually read what I posted, his "job" was to sit there and click steady shot while never once having board interaction. That is a TOXIC thing to let run rampant through 90% of the game. He didn't make clever plays, he didn't interact with the board, he just sat there and assembled what is 100% the most cost effective combo in the game. This is exactly what blizz said they DIDNT want.
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Posts: 3,233
Not sure why you're bothering arguing with Repefin. His entire post history is filled with defense and "bad advice" on how to handle UTH (not sure if he plays other classes frankly). Advice that experience players from other classes have repeatedly TRIED and proven to be ineffective, but he just repeats his mantra anyway.

03/17/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Repefin
Shamans definitelly.


Hahaha! when you're free, feel free to take part in the UTH discussions in the shaman forums, that is if you play the class at all. Good luck. I'll be waiting.
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Posts: 173
03/17/2014 04:29 PMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
This is the worst argument I have ever seen. The hunter to burst takes a 2 mana common and a 2 mana basic and makingZERO smart plays and not interacting with the board. The warrior takes tons of different plays, interacting with both sides of the board WHILE playing around a stupidly undercosted combo.

If you actually read what I posted, his "job" was to sit there and click steady shot while never once having board interaction. That is a TOXIC thing to let run rampant through 90% of the game. He didn't make clever plays, he didn't interact with the board, he just sat there and assembled what is 100% the most cost effective combo in the game. This is exactly what blizz said they DIDNT want.


Oh come on. I have both control warrior and rush hunter. It's actually harder to get a win with rush hunter at decent rating than with warrior, that's why most ppl switch when they get to decent ratings as I did. And the "zero smart plays" ... taking it slow againg warrior is the smart play, do you understand the concept. Stalling the game, chipping away at your opponent. That's sometimes how rush wins games. By being smart. It's not how rush plays against other decks so save yourself those 90%.

Warrior can do the same thing, stall till turn 9 to put down Alexstraza to deal 15 damage and follow it up with enraged garrosh or ragnaros.

Also as a warrior I don't really play around the combo ... just I go aggro on the hunter with 1-3 minions. Put him on the defense. He can pull off some miracle damage chain, but usually he only has 8-9 turns for it and he has to do probably at least 40-45 damage. And sometimes he can ... but often he can't.
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Posts: 173
03/17/2014 04:56 PMPosted by Wilson
Not sure why you're bothering arguing with Repefin. His entire post history is filled with defense and "bad advice" on how to handle UTH (not sure if he plays other classes frankly). Advice that experience players from other classes have repeatedly TRIED and proven to be ineffective, but he just repeats his mantra anyway.


Are you talking about the same ppl who suggest to buff the mana cost back to 4 when ppl just didn't play the card ? Yeah, I will pass.

03/17/2014 04:56 PMPosted by Wilson
Hahaha! when you're free, feel free to take part in the UTH discussions in the shaman forums, that is if you play the class at all. Good luck. I'll be waiting.


You have to be more specific ... I found one thread with 2 pages. Anyway, listen to the guys who tell you to out rush them.
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