An Honest look at Unleash the Hounds

Posts: 113
There is a time gap in this thread in the middle of page 4. It's funny how the tone changed after around 10 days.
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Posts: 104
03/26/2014 05:43 AMPosted by Femto
I don't know why people are still trying to give credits to hunters, we are not talking about YOUR winrate or how you think people should play against them. We don't care you beat them with this or that deck.

We are talking about boring gameplay that's spreading like a plague, even to other classes, because 1: Meta is going way too fast against slow (dull) dev changes and 2: No in-ter-ac-tion. Say it again : interaction.
Why is it bad ? Because frustration has never been so high, and it's not good for a F2P TCG, period.
Especially knowing a small change could make it a lot more interesting again to play against a hunter.


Thats almost exactly the point I was trying to make with my post. It's almost a 90% chance that every time a Worthy Opponent comes up as a hunter, that they are a cookie cutter UtH hunter. (The same goes with Paladin Aggro decks, but I wont go there in this thread.) and unless you have a deck built to counter specifically UtH hunters, you will struggle against everything else. THAT tips the balance of the game, imho.
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Posts: 116
03/26/2014 05:03 PMPosted by ForTheHorde
unless you have a deck built to counter specifically UtH hunters, you will struggle against everything else. THAT tips the balance of the game, imho.


both aggro warrior and control warrior counter hunter HARD. and control warrior has no hard counter against it., with the closest being shaman and zoo warlock.

watcher and control druids also have good matchup vs uth hunters. and are super versatile vs other decks,

the only two class that countered hard by uth hunters are rouge and shamans(with shamans getting countered harder)
Edited by BigTallGuy on 3/26/2014 5:43 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,797
03/13/2014 01:23 PMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
I could feel myself getting worse playing a hunter.


Sounds to me exactly like Hunters in WoW.
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Posts: 7
La la lala lalala.
Last 15 ranked matches (r7) :

Hunter
Hunter
Warlock
Hunter
Warlock
Warlock
Priest (!)
Hunter
Mage (!)
Warlock
Warlock
Hunter
Hunter
Warrior (!)
Hunter

All of them UtH, and Zoo for locks (1 murlock).

And you people are still talking about counter-decks. I mean, seriously.
!@#$ing meta plague i said.

Booooooring.
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Posts: 564
I don't think UTH is even the problem.

The problem is Starving Buzzard. It needs to get the Tinkmaster treatment and turn into a 2/3 and every time you summon a beast, either you or your opponent draws a card.
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Posts: 564
Here's probably an even better idea, change Starving Buzzard's text to Battlecry: At the begininng of your next turn, gain "Draw a card for every beast you summon." Ultimately, this is similar to the Warrior Warsong Commander problem, and a Warrior Warsong Commander solution seems like the solution Blizzard may embrace.

Yeah, killer combos which let you draw 5 cards while simultaneously smacking the living **** out of your opponent are fine, even if it only takes two cards, but when you can have that **** without control of the board, then you are going to hear incessant complaints about it, and rightly so.

Think about it. Nobody complains about Northshire Cleric, or Gadgetzan Auctioneers, or Cult Master, or any number of cards which can wreck you if left alone for a while. UTH in itself I don't think will even be a problem if the killer combos involving it required you to have a board to begin with.
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Posts: 104
03/28/2014 09:15 AMPosted by Ulyanasaurus
Think about it. Nobody complains about Northshire Cleric, or Gadgetzan Auctioneers, or Cult Master, or any number of cards which can wreck you if left alone for a while. UTH in itself I don't think will even be a problem if the killer combos involving it required you to have a board to begin with.


Although a pain in the @$$, the priests northshire cleric paired with a Holy Nova can cause an effect pretty similar to the Staving Buzzard + UtH, so although a pain, its more or less balanced in my opinion.... The Auctioneer requires you to burn through your spells in order to get a card draw, which is pretty fair I think. Althought all of these suck to have played against you, no one can really say that they havent utilized either of these card advantage plays. Cult master is a pain, but again it requires a sacrifice on the players part to use to their advantage effectively. Cult Master requires you to through your minions at other minions and sacrifice them to get a (hopefully) better card. These all take somewhat of a sacrifice to play. Yes,even the Northshire Cleric and Holy Nova combo, because that makes the player risk damaging their minions in order to heal them with Holy Nova. There is a risk, because there are all kinds of tactics that can take your wounded minions out of the game, like with the warrior card that can destroy a wounded minion, no matter how many health they have left.

The problem comes, like you said,.from all of the people who use this to try and get cheap wins without any skill. Whether or not the UtH is nerfed or not, I think its time is limited because most people already know who to stomp all over UtH hunters. All of the strategies I mentioned above require you to already HAVE a board presence. A hunter can pair UtH, Buzzard, and Scavenging Hyena all in one turn, and pretty much guarentee a win if they play it right. If not, they get crushed. Its an all or nothing play style that is just lame. And, I'm not talking as someone who hasn't played AS a hunter, or is "butthurt because a hunter stomped me" as is the normal argument by most UtH exploit, one trick pony hunters. As a matter of fact, I played four hunters just today. One was a rush hunter, and one I dont know what the hell it was, but two were UtH cookie cutters. I won all four matches, because I had to LEARN how to counter cookie cutter UtHs.

Anyhow, I think Ive rambled enough about that. For the most part, UtH hunters are pretty much a thing of history imho. I can foresee two things happening if Blizzard changes anything about that combo.
1. Most UtH hunters will ragequit the game, because nerfing their one trick pony "isn't fair", or,
2. Hunters will evolve and adapt and learn more strategies than just spamming UtH. Because, as a deck, Hunters have some pretty strong and amazing combos that you dont even NEED Buzzard, UtH, Scav. Hyena, Or Timber Wolf.

Its a good deck and a good class to play, but I think the problem right now is that they are too uniform. Out of 10 hunter Worthy Opponents right now, I can say that I have seen at least 8 of them play UtH in one form or another. and about half of those are hunters trying to face rush with Hyena or Buzzard.
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Posts: 898
I'm in the rank 8-6 area, more than half of my opponents are Hunters, and of those Hunters 100% of them have had the same exact deck, no variations at all, I wish I was exaggerating even in the slightest. Its not fun to play ranked anymore.
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Posts: 384
03/28/2014 11:05 AMPosted by Fiddlesnarf
I'm in the rank 8-6 area, more than half of my opponents are Hunters, and of those Hunters 100% of them have had the same exact deck, no variations at all, I wish I was exaggerating even in the slightest. Its not fun to play ranked anymore.


Had to eat a bunch of those to get to rank 5. It is literally no exaggeration, every single one is the same. Zero variation. I am glad my brew has taken me so far and I haven't seen a single warrior list like it.
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Posts: 406
03/28/2014 11:08 AMPosted by TheDukeOfTBC
03/28/2014 11:05 AMPosted by Fiddlesnarf
I'm in the rank 8-6 area, more than half of my opponents are Hunters, and of those Hunters 100% of them have had the same exact deck, no variations at all, I wish I was exaggerating even in the slightest. Its not fun to play ranked anymore.


Had to eat a bunch of those to get to rank 5. It is literally no exaggeration, every single one is the same. Zero variation. I am glad my brew has taken me so far and I haven't seen a single warrior list like it.


If I was ever at a ranking where over half of my games were against the same exact deck then I would just make a counter deck that curb stomps it and take great pleasure in punishing the netdeckers. The fun of completely ruining their day would easily overtake any monotony from playing against the same deck repeatedly.

As it is, I run 2x Hungry Crab and occasionally get to play them against Murloc decks. The inevitable pause and mouse-over on Hungry Crab when he inexplicably eats one of their Murlocs and gets buffed never fails to brighten my day. I'd like nothing more than to be able to do that in over half of my games lol.
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Posts: 7
03/28/2014 11:17 AMPosted by crdvis16

If I was ever at a ranking where over half of my games were against the same exact deck then I would just make a counter deck that curb stomps it and take great pleasure in punishing the netdeckers. The fun of completely ruining their day would easily overtake any monotony from playing against the same deck repeatedly.

Yea logic of course, except there no true reliable counter but playing crap decks that doesnt do squat the other 50% of your match-ups.
And it doesn't solve the fun issue. (Not even considering the warlock Zoo part..)
It's always the same deck you fight, it's boring that's all.

We need more diversity, and this stupid 500 wins goal really comes in a bad timing, that synergy with cheap fast win brainless decks... Pff.
Edited by Femto on 3/28/2014 1:12 PM PDT
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Posts: 564
I still think that a Starving Buzzard nerf will fix the problem without any change to UTH. Without the Buzzard, UTH isn't actually that bad to deal with. I mean, so often I draw 2-4 cards into the Timber needed to finish the job. If Blizzard somehow "Pagle" Starving Buzzard, it may even be enough.

Let's say Starving Buzzard was changed to "When you summon a beast, draw a card at the end of your turn." That may be sufficient in itself already. If not, Blizzard can go one step further and change it to "At the start of your turn, draw cards equal to the number of beasts you have summoned last turn." This second solution is obviously pretty harsh, because if your opponent kills your Starving Buzzard on their turn, you don't get the card draw (like Pagel).

Honestly though, I think even the 1st more "modest" nerf may slow the combo down enough to keep UTH as it is. Quite frankly, whenever somebody plays UTH against me without the Buzzard part of the combo, it feels like a pretty balanced spell.
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Posts: 160
03/28/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Ulyanasaurus
Honestly though, I think even the 1st more "modest" nerf may slow the combo down enough to keep UTH as it is. Quite frankly, whenever somebody plays UTH against me without the Buzzard part of the combo, it feels like a pretty balanced spell.


Dude that would completely kill the class off. It's already balanced as it is. They got just 1 great combo and that's buzzard + UtH. Just L2P already instead of QQ'ing. In fact the Hunter is already UP at higher ranks, which is evidently reflected by it's w/l%.

Edit: It would be balanced just fine if there is some incentive such as giving 2 or 3 cards at end of your turn for each beast you have summoned. This way you gain a lot of cards, but are unable to play it during that turn. Moreover, if you don't have enough beasts in your hand you can't drop them the same turn. But merely giving 1 card per beast at end of turn will be a too big nerf.
Edited by Calculus on 3/28/2014 5:26 PM PDT
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Posts: 12
#crymore pls
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Posts: 5
Can't really understand all the rage, I've been playing reynad's cycling hunter (without Leeroy) and while it's a cool deck, it's way too reliable on draw, if you don't get the cards you need until turn 5, you pretty much lost the game.

The deck gets overwhelmed easily by priests and Warriors because of their hero ability and life gain cards (like Holy Fire and Shield Block).

The problem with the deck is you really need to get ahead on hp fast, if the game drag up to turn 8+ you start to get in big trouble.

Any good control deck destroys hunters, because different from aggrolock, hunters have no reliable way to draw besides the buzzard+UtH combo.
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Posts: 7
outplayed

I don't think this word means what you noobs think it means
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Posts: 565
@YoBB & Kowboy: No worries, my dear baby boys, the uncles and aunts are only speaking about your shiny shiny toys. No one takes them away completely. No need to sulk
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Posts: 59
03/28/2014 01:08 PMPosted by Femto
Yea logic of course, except there no true reliable counter but playing crap decks that doesnt do squat the other 50% of your match-ups.


As much as you believe that, it's not true. Y'know how we know it's not true? Because if it were, you'd see a lot more hunter decks above rank 5. Fact is, almost nobody plays hunter up there.
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Posts: 565
03/29/2014 05:50 AMPosted by IPutGodAway
03/28/2014 01:08 PMPosted by Femto
Yea logic of course, except there no true reliable counter but playing crap decks that doesnt do squat the other 50% of your match-ups.


As much as you believe that, it's not true. Y'know how we know it's not true? Because if it were, you'd see a lot more hunter decks above rank 5. Fact is, almost nobody plays hunter up there.


Even if not (I honestly don't know) do you think it is good that a game is designed around the top notch brakets? From a business pov certainly not ;)
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