Having Problems Against Paladins

Posts: 1,262
03/22/2014 06:44 PMPosted by Shoogle
2x savannah highmane


What about it? Is that not good? Is it not worth it getting 2?
Edited by Speedwell on 3/23/2014 9:41 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 523
03/16/2014 02:09 PMPosted by Speedwell
I see your problem. Throw in 2 buzzards and 2 UTH.

Why is this? What cards would I remove?

PS: As the OP state this is suppose to be a control deck and not a rush deck.


.....
UtH IS a card that fits in a control deck.
Think of it as an AoE + massive card draw.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,007
2x savannah highmane. Thank me later.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,262
03/24/2014 03:35 AMPosted by Shoogle
2x savannah highmane. Thank me later.


One of us is not reading correctly here. I HAVE 2 Savannah Highmane. Are you telling me to ditch one? i just want to make things clear so we can move forward from here.

Thank you,
Speedwell
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,262
03/23/2014 10:30 PMPosted by Hamsta
...
Why is this? What cards would I remove?

PS: As the OP state this is suppose to be a control deck and not a rush deck.


.....
UtH IS a card that fits in a control deck.
Think of it as an AoE + massive card draw.


I am assuming you did not read the post where I outlined my new deck on page 2. I have 2 Unleash The Hounds now.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,262
Anything for my new deck?
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,930
Copying my reply from another thread about Hunter mid-range/control decks.
Hunter mid-range/control is in fact a very viable and powerful deck and is slowly gaining in popularity. As far as secrets go, don't settle for the weak ones like Snipe and Misdirection and instead choose the more useful ones like Explosive Shot(amazing vs aggro decks), Freezing Trap(gains a lot of tempo) and Snake Trap(combos well with Buzzard and strengthens your board). You don't have to run 2 of each obviously but even 1 of each gives you plenty of secrets to confuse your opponent and make him play around the various possible secrets and hopefully make mistakes, also works extremely well with Eaglehorn Bow.

Hunter's removal, while conditional, can be easily handled/manipulated to great results. As a mid-range/control Hunter your main priority is to clear your opponent's board and you have plenty of single target and AoE tools for the job, giving you the ability to bypass Deadly Shot's RNG in a lot of situations and making it the cheapest unconditional(since you bypassed its condition, as in killed everything else beforehand) kill spell. Kill Command is simply an amazing spell, as a Hunter you have plenty of beasts to play with to meet this simply condition, and the fact that it can both target minions and your opponent makes it a very versatile spell, much like the Mage's Fireball just with 1 less damage(when you have a beast) and 1 less mana. Hunter's Mark requires you to be able to ping the target to finish it off, which isn't too hard when utilizing UTH or when using an otherwise unused card: Elven Archer. Arcane Shot is a solid removal for cheap minions and if you draw it late game you can combine it with hero power for a 4 damage spike to your opponent's face, so it's never a dead card. Multi Shot is a bit on the expensive side and counter intuitive when using UTH so it's up to you whether to use it or not. Personally I just run with Explosive Traps to combat aggro decks and stabilize, but you can run it if you want. Explosive Shot is simply too expensive for what it does, and Hunters have plenty of other AoE options to use in its place. Last but not least, UTH itself, especially in a mid-range/control deck as opposed to aggro, is basically a flexible removal spell. This is the main reason you don't need to focus too much on AoE clearing and still be able to maintain board dominance.

Now that secrets and removal have been covered, the last piece of the puzzle is your end game. As a Hunter your hero power already provides you with consistent unavoidable damage(as it bypasses taunts) which makes Hunter mid-range control decks faster than other classes'. It also means that you're less reliant on hard finishers like say Warrior control decks that strictly rely on their Alex into Grom combo to end the game. Still, you want to have some fatties to trade with opposing fatties(if against other mid-range/control decks) or to punch your opponent's face and speed the game up so he won't have a lot of time to pull off his Leeroy combo, FoN+SR, Bloodlust, etc, to finish you off first. King Krush is actually decent for this type of deck so if you happen to have him this is the only deck type I'd actually consider using him in. The usual legendaries like Cairne, Rag, etc also fit well obviously. I wouldn't use Sylvana nor Ysera as neither has a high enough impact Imho. Just make sure to not bring too many fatties as you don't want your hand to be clogged with fatties and nothing cheaper to actually be able to play. You also don't want to run too many non beast minions as Timber Wolf and Kill Command still use the beast synergy, Buzzard too of course but it's unlikely to survive for more than 1 round making him negligible for this specific clause. While not truly a fatty, Savannah Highmane is an excellent beast card for Hunters, much like Cairne and Harvest Golem it provides you with a lot of bang for your buck with its deathrattle summon 2 2/2 Hyenas.

Using the above mentioned value minions along with a few fatties and the obligatory Buzzard+Timber Wolf, maybe Animal Companion too should round your minion count nicely and put glue all the other parts of the deck together. Gladiator's Longbow can also be used to good effect if you feel you need more big single target removal, though I feel it's a bit too expensive compared to your other options and it's not like you're short on removal to begin with. So now you have some early minions for board presence of your own, single target and AoE removal for your opponent's board, fatties to finish the game and even some secrets to gain some tempo/board presence(Freezing and Snake Trap respectively) and confuse your opponent to hopefully force him into making bad plays.

A specific deck list wouldn't do you as much good as all these explanations as you should be constantly adapting your deck to the meta game at your current level. As long as you possess the understanding on how mid-range/control Hunters work, know what abilities your deck needs to have and have a solid understanding on how to judge card power in general than you should be able to create a good Hunter mid-range/control deck and make proper adjustments when needed.

In your case you're severely lacking in the removal department, not running Hunter's Mark, Deadly Shot nor even Timber Wolf to make your UTH combo actually be able to clear something as 1 damage per hound really doesn't do all that much. You're also lacking in the finishers department, you build up your control but what do you do than? Savannah Highmane is the most powerful card you have and it's not a finisher by any stretch of the imagination. By the way, your deck isn't actually a control deck as it stands right now but a mid-range deck. The difference is rather subtle but it's very noticeable in this deck. Houndmasters, Argent Commanders and Stranglethorn Tigers are mid-range type minions, not control minions. Control decks only use mid-sized value minions like Savannah Highmanes(thanks to its deathrattle) and than a few fatties, usually legendaries, to seal the deal.

Don't get me wrong, mid-range Hunter is a perfectly fine deck to play. You just need to realize that you're playing mid-range rather than control, as the play style of the 2 is slightly different. As a mid-range deck you're playing the control role against aggro decks and the aggro role against control decks. You say you're struggling with Paladins, I assume the control variety rather than aggro. I suspect that the reason you're struggling with them is because you're trying to play the control role against them rather than the aggro role, as your deck simply lacks the tools to face them toe to toe in the control department.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,262
04/01/2014 06:11 AMPosted by OwlRaider
Copying my reply from another thread about Hunter mid-range/control decks.
Hunter mid-range/control is in fact a very viable and powerful deck and is slowly gaining in popularity. As far as secrets go, don't settle for the weak ones like Snipe and Misdirection and instead choose the more useful ones like Explosive Shot(amazing vs aggro decks), Freezing Trap(gains a lot of tempo) and Snake Trap(combos well with Buzzard and strengthens your board). You don't have to run 2 of each obviously but even 1 of each gives you plenty of secrets to confuse your opponent and make him play around the various possible secrets and hopefully make mistakes, also works extremely well with Eaglehorn Bow.

Hunter's removal, while conditional, can be easily handled/manipulated to great results. As a mid-range/control Hunter your main priority is to clear your opponent's board and you have plenty of single target and AoE tools for the job, giving you the ability to bypass Deadly Shot's RNG in a lot of situations and making it the cheapest unconditional(since you bypassed its condition, as in killed everything else beforehand) kill spell. Kill Command is simply an amazing spell, as a Hunter you have plenty of beasts to play with to meet this simply condition, and the fact that it can both target minions and your opponent makes it a very versatile spell, much like the Mage's Fireball just with 1 less damage(when you have a beast) and 1 less mana. Hunter's Mark requires you to be able to ping the target to finish it off, which isn't too hard when utilizing UTH or when using an otherwise unused card: Elven Archer. Arcane Shot is a solid removal for cheap minions and if you draw it late game you can combine it with hero power for a 4 damage spike to your opponent's face, so it's never a dead card. Multi Shot is a bit on the expensive side and counter intuitive when using UTH so it's up to you whether to use it or not. Personally I just run with Explosive Traps to combat aggro decks and stabilize, but you can run it if you want. Explosive Shot is simply too expensive for what it does, and Hunters have plenty of other AoE options to use in its place. Last but not least, UTH itself, especially in a mid-range/control deck as opposed to aggro, is basically a flexible removal spell. This is the main reason you don't need to focus too much on AoE clearing and still be able to maintain board dominance.

Now that secrets and removal have been covered, the last piece of the puzzle is your end game. As a Hunter your hero power already provides you with consistent unavoidable damage(as it bypasses taunts) which makes Hunter mid-range control decks faster than other classes'. It also means that you're less reliant on hard finishers like say Warrior control decks that strictly rely on their Alex into Grom combo to end the game. Still, you want to have some fatties to trade with opposing fatties(if against other mid-range/control decks) or to punch your opponent's face and speed the game up so he won't have a lot of time to pull off his Leeroy combo, FoN+SR, Bloodlust, etc, to finish you off first. King Krush is actually decent for this type of deck so if you happen to have him this is the only deck type I'd actually consider using him in. The usual legendaries like Cairne, Rag, etc also fit well obviously. I wouldn't use Sylvana nor Ysera as neither has a high enough impact Imho. Just make sure to not bring too many fatties as you don't want your hand to be clogged with fatties and nothing cheaper to actually be able to play. You also don't want to run too many non beast minions as Timber Wolf and Kill Command still use the beast synergy, Buzzard too of course but it's unlikely to survive for more than 1 round making him negligible for this specific clause. While not truly a fatty, Savannah Highmane is an excellent beast card for Hunters, much like Cairne and Harvest Golem it provides you with a lot of bang for your buck with its deathrattle summon 2 2/2 Hyenas.

Using the above mentioned value minions along with a few fatties and the obligatory Buzzard+Timber Wolf, maybe Animal Companion too should round your minion count nicely and put glue all the other parts of the deck together. Gladiator's Longbow can also be used to good effect if you feel you need more big single target removal, though I feel it's a bit too expensive compared to your other options and it's not like you're short on removal to begin with. So now you have some early minions for board presence of your own, single target and AoE removal for your opponent's board, fatties to finish the game and even some secrets to gain some tempo/board presence(Freezing and Snake Trap respectively) and confuse your opponent to hopefully force him into making bad plays.

A specific deck list wouldn't do you as much good as all these explanations as you should be constantly adapting your deck to the meta game at your current level. As long as you possess the understanding on how mid-range/control Hunters work, know what abilities your deck needs to have and have a solid understanding on how to judge card power in general than you should be able to create a good Hunter mid-range/control deck and make proper adjustments when needed.

In your case you're severely lacking in the removal department, not running Hunter's Mark, Deadly Shot nor even Timber Wolf to make your UTH combo actually be able to clear something as 1 damage per hound really doesn't do all that much. You're also lacking in the finishers department, you build up your control but what do you do than? Savannah Highmane is the most powerful card you have and it's not a finisher by any stretch of the imagination. By the way, your deck isn't actually a control deck as it stands right now but a mid-range deck. The difference is rather subtle but it's very noticeable in this deck. Houndmasters, Argent Commanders and Stranglethorn Tigers are mid-range type minions, not control minions. Control decks only use mid-sized value minions like Savannah Highmanes(thanks to its deathrattle) and than a few fatties, usually legendaries, to seal the deal.

Don't get me wrong, mid-range Hunter is a perfectly fine deck to play. You just need to realize that you're playing mid-range rather than control, as the play style of the 2 is slightly different. As a mid-range deck you're playing the control role against aggro decks and the aggro role against control decks. You say you're struggling with Paladins, I assume the control variety rather than aggro. I suspect that the reason you're struggling with them is because you're trying to play the control role against them rather than the aggro role, as your deck simply lacks the tools to face them toe to toe in the control department.

So I don't have any legendary cards. I also don't have snake trap, what should I put in the deck?
Edited by Speedwell on 4/2/2014 11:41 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]