Priest vs. Druid
03/23/2014 11:20 PMPosted by JagoreIn general I would say priests are stronger against Druids then most because Druids depend on big minions and priest excel at using big minions to their own advantage. What you are having trouble with is a problem bigger then Druids. 4 damage commons are going to annoy you no matter who you are fighting. I keep two holyfires for yeti and drakes and etc. other solutions I have used are abusive sergeants and crazed alchemists. Personally though I wish they would just add 4 to shadow word pain. Priests are already considered weak and they are the only class that gets screwed over by the number 4, which happens to be the number used by a ton of high priority very common creatures and a few legendaries like mal and ysera.
I disagree. Most druids have moved away from the mostly big creatures and have have maybe 3 tops which I save my bgh and shadow word deaths for. When I get turn 1 coin innervate yeti'd or turn 2 coin innervate druid of claw'd I have 0 recourse. Especially if they have wrath and swipe. I then have to wait until turn 6 and by then the game is over. The only other solution I can think of is inner fire shadow word death which is not only a 2 card solution (which is fine because he used innervate) but I have to wait until turn 4 minimum.... and that's is assuming I have both in hand. Also not every priest deck uses inner fire. This matchup is a strictly hard counter to the already struggling class that is priest.
03/24/2014 12:24 PMPosted by LordShivaOne key oversight to the priest class is the fact that the card inner fire can be used in combo with Shadow Word. For example, use inner fire on a 4/5 minion then SW him down.
Already mentioned that and explained why it's not feasible in competitive play. Shadow words deaths need to be saved for cenarius, rag, ancient of war. Not to mention it's a 2 card combo that is not likely to be in your hand
As for the 4 attack creature spam, I run a midrange deck with crazed alchemist and wild pyromancers to get value out of what I can. 2 taz-dingos and a couple of soulpriests help me maintain a good trade ratio.
As for the pains/deaths, I dropped my pains for shadow madness and a cabal shadow priest. (grab the harvesters :P) Deaths you gimmick with alchemists and shields in order to maintain advantage. I run one mind control for late game legendries and try to win before it gets to late-late game.
Because I don't actually have any legendries, I run a sea giant as my only 8/8, mostly keep to midrange and try to trade well.
There is just nothing in the priest arsenal that can deal with it.
We have no spell that deals with it, and all our creatures we can play at turn 2 and 3 will get killed/removed by their druid of the claw or wrath.
There is literally nothing you can do. As soon as they innervate druid of the claw i just leave the game. It saves time. I tried it so many times but hearthstone is such a snowbally game.
If you fall behind in the early game you lose, especially as priest because we have no removal against 4 damage minions.
03/24/2014 02:42 PMPosted by MarkShadow word pain is average at best. I would drop them for some decent midrange minions.
Thats something i did aswell, coming to the conclusion that it holds me back and that i should more focus on healing my creatures.
Since then i changed my mind completely. Shadow word pain is so much better than a regular 2 drop, hands down.
A regular 2 drop like a 3/2 will always be that, a 3/2 creature. You drop it at 2 and it can get removed by a spell or just be attacked by their creature.
If you happen to draw into it lategame, its still just a 3/2 creature, mostly useless and incapable of gaining back board control if you are behind.
A shadow word pain fills the exact same role in the early game as a 3/2 minion. It can remove the opponents early game drop meaning it has the same value as any other 3/2 drop in the early game (actually its better because it can remove some stuff that a regular 3/2 drop cannot, like divine shield minions), but if you happen to draw into it lategame, its way superior to a 3/2 minion, as it can potentially regain board control for 2 mana and put you back on the board, something a 3/2 minion cannot do.
For the same reason i included smite again because it can potentially regain board control for 1 mana, something a regular minion cannot do.
The opponents fire elemental is left at 6/2? You destroy it for 1 mana and play your yeti/twilight/blademaster. You cleared their board and played a minion on the same turn, regaining board control.
It is at 6/3? You play an azure drake and smite it. You clear their board and put something on the board yourself.
Being able to clear the enemy board and playing something on the same turn is the most important thing in hearthstone. Because priest has such a hard time of doing that we are currently the worst class.
If you think about it, the easiest games we have are the ones where the enemy puts a 5+ dmg minion on the board, which we then kill with shadow word death in order to then put a yeti/dragon/blademaster on the board in order to regain board control, From there we have a good chance of winning. We destroyed a minion with a spell and played a minion of our own. Destroy a minion with a spell, put a minion of your own down. Thats what hearthstone is about.
Thats also the reason why the priest sucks so badly. As soon as 4 dmg minions are in play, we are incapable of putting this strategy into use. We are stuck with playing a minion of our own.
If it gets removed next turn and the opponent plays another minion on top, then it is 2 minions vs 0 on our side, game over.
Which is why i included smite back into my deck. It has the potential of removing that 4 dmg drop if it is also damaged, which means it has the potential to regain board control for 1 mana.
Same thing with shadow word pain. It has the potential of regaining board control for 2 mana.
Having the potential to regain board control with a spell is better than not having that option at all.
Now think about other classes. They have plenty of spells that remove creatures (without the 4 damage blindness), which are cheap enough to allow them to put down a minion on top of that.
They have plenty of ways to utilize the "kill a creature with a cheap spell, put down a creature of your own to regain board control".
Druids, paladins, mages, shamans, rogues, warlocks, hunters, warriors. All of them have a plethora of spells that can remove minions. They have a lot of spells that are cheap as dirt that can remove a minion, thus giving the class the ability "to come back from being behind on the board".
Our options are either blind to some targets, making some games default losses (like the 4 dmg blindness), or they are so expensive that we cannot use it in conjunction with a minion of our own: holy fire. Holy fire costs 6 which means we can only do the "use a spell to remove a creature in order to put down your yeti" in turn 10. Way too late in comparison to other classes.
Hex/sheep into yeti. Hammer into yeti. Lightning bolt into yeti. Soulfire into yeti. Shield slam into yeti. Weapon into yeti. Wrath into yeti. Frostbolt into yeti. Fireball into yeti. They have a plethora of options. We have options that are restricted to specific minions. All we can do is put them into our deck and hope that we get to utilize them in order to regain board control. Smite, pain and death. Those are our options. They are pretty bad options but our only ones. Removing them and replacing them with minions makes us weak to the "spell into minion" strategy.
We place a minion, they use a spell and drop a minion. Game over, we can never come back into the game.
Look at this picture:
I played the blademaster on turn 3 and healed it to 4/7. Then i played the twilight dragon. Then the azure dragon. Then i played the questing and buffed it up to 4/6 initially so that he couldnt kill it (questing + shield + light warden).
His only play was the cabal shadow priest at 6 to steal my lightwarden.
The enemy priest knows that if he drops a minion, it will get killed for free since i have the jump on it with my 4/7 blademaster. He decided not to play anything until turn 6 because all of the trades would have been in my favor. Turn 3 blademaster into 4 drop into 4 drop into 4 drop. Nothing he can do. He could try to play stuff, but i would always trade favorably and just win a little bit later.
Since he has no spell that deals with a 4 dmg target, he has no good option to deal with this opening. He can either drop a 3 drop which i will kill for free (1for0) or coin a 4 drop, something like a yeti. If he drops the yeti, it doesnt accomplish anything because i will drop another 4 drop and go to the face with the blademaster. He then has the option of attacking either of my minions without killing either, because he only has 4 mana now if he coined the 4 drop in the last round (meaning he cannot use holy nova to get a favorable trade)..
Placing another 4 drop is suicide because if i have holy nova, i will attack his 2 minions with my 2 minions, then play holy nova for an empty board and two 4 dmg drops that he still cannot deal with.
Basically he has no viable option to deal with my 4 dmg drops that came so quickly. Now think about the same situation if he had smite. It gives him much more of a fighting chance. He coins the yeti on 3. On 4 he attacks my second 4 drop that has 5 health, his will be at 4/1, mine aswell. Then he plays smite to kill my yeti, then he plays a farseer to heal his yeti back up. He has regained some kinda board control instead of getting snowballed.
Spells are essential if you want to regain board control. Removing them from our decks doesnt accomplish anything.
Since our spells are so restrictive, we are a !@#$ty class. Removing them makes us worse.
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