Help with druid deck
Hi, I was wondering if you guys could help me with the druid deck I'm running. It has worked fine so far but I'm sure It could be better.
This is my deck:
Power of the Wild x2
Novice Engineer x2
Mark of Nature x2
Harvest Golem x2
Keeper of the Grove x2
Sen'jin Shieldmasta x2
Druid of the Claw x2
Argent Commander x2
I also wanted to ask advice about legendaries. I have 1600 dust and was thinking of crafting Ragnaros or Ysera. Wich one do you recommend? or should I use the dust to craft some rares for the deck?
You should probably use your dust to craft epics such as ancient of lore or ancient of war (If you're concentrating on your druid deck) BUt if you find that your deck needs some kind of legendary, then you can craft ragnaros, which I think is better than ysera (Just my opinion)
If I were starting Druid from scratch with 1600 Dust, the first cards I would probably craft are two Ancients of Lore for 800 Dust. Then I go for the "Wild Wild Pyro" which handles most decks in the current meta very well:
WILD WILD PYRO
2x Wild Growth
2x Keeper of the Grove
2x Druid of the Claw
2x Ancient of Lore
2x Ironbark Protector
2x Wild Pyromancer <-- 200 Dust if you don't have these already
2x Earthern Ring Farseer <-- 2x Harvest Golem if you don't have these already
2x Chillwind Yeti
1x Sen'jin Shieldmasta
1x Faceless Manipulator <-- 400 Dust if you don't have this already
1x Gadgetzan Auctioneer <-- 100 Dust if you don't have this already
2x Stranglethorn Tigers <-- 2x Boulderfist Ogre if you don't have these already
That's 1500 Dust total. The Neutral crafts are good for many deck types if you don't have them already. This deck performs even better if you have Legendaries like Rag, Ysera, The Black Knight, and Epics like Big Game Hunter, Ancient of War, etc. You just sub them in for the Ironbarks, Stranglethorns, and Chillwinds.
Edited by Ulyanasaurus on 3/20/2014 8:01 PM PDT
If you are more comfortable going aggressive, then you can always go the "Tokenlord" route:
2x Power of the Wild
2x Savage Roar
2x Keeper of the Grove
1x Force of Nature <-- 400 Dust if you don't have this already
2x Ancient of Lore
2x Argent Squire
2x Loot Hoarder
2x Acolyte of Pain
2x Harvest Golem
2x Violet Teacher <-- 200 Dust if you don't have these already
2x Azure Drake <-- 200 Dust if you don't have these already
1x Gadgetzan Auctioneer <-- 100 Dust if you don't have this already
That's 1700 Dust if you are missing all the Rares and the Force of Nature. This one is generally cheaper though, since it is designed specifically to run without Legendaries and Epics beyond the three Epics already in there. If you prefer your deck to play more straight-forward, then you may want to consider running this deck instead.
Edited by Ulyanasaurus on 3/20/2014 8:07 PM PDT
Thx for the suggestions! I have most of the neutrals you listed so I think I can give both decks a shot. A couple of questiosn tho. I'm guessing that the Force of Nature + Savage Roar combo is the bread and butter of the second deck, so why only include one Force of Nature?
And, wouldn't it make sense to add Mark of Nature in the first deck? to protect the pyros I mean.
The Tokenlord functions as a Value Aggro deck, but one with the potential to combo. It doesn't depend on the Force of Nature/Savage Roar combo to win (although you do end up finishing with that combo pretty often, particularly against control decks where you have plenty of turns to draw it). You probably end up seeing the Violet Teacher + Power of the Wild (+1/+1 form) more often than Force of Nature + Savage Roar.
Most of the components combo well with each other. You have your sticky weenies, Violet Teacher tokens, and Force of Nature to combo with Savage Roar and Power of the Wild. They all pretty much work well together, either individually or as one of various combos. If you have The Black Knight, you can sub him in for an Acolyte of Pain in Tokenlord if the meta in your range calls for it. Those Acolytes are nice though at punishing opponents for AEing your Violet Teacher tokens.
As far as protecting the Wild Pyromancers go. You don't. They are there to blow themselves up for your cause. They are nearly impossible to protect anyway. They draw more fire than an Argent Squire buffed with Blessing of Kings and 2x Blessing of Wisdom. More importantly, though, is that Mark of the Wild would be highly likely to sit as a dead card in hand for a very long time, because there are only 4x early game minions in Wild Wild Pyro.
Edited by Ulyanasaurus on 3/21/2014 2:52 AM PDT
Thx again! I like both decks a lot but I'm kinda having mixed results. Most of the time I get my opponent's health really low but, for some reason, I can't manage to kill them. Maybe I could add you and play a couple games so you can tell me what I'm doing wrong?
The token deck has worked great so far. It took some time getting used to it but now I win pretty consistently. Yesterday I replaced a loot hoarder for a knife juggler and it works really well. With all the tokens this deck summons, the juggler can do some nice dmge
Played Ulyanasaurus' token deck for a while and I have to say I love it, but it's too dependable on good card draws. Maybe I'm just a bad player in general, because whenever I'm playing a game, to set up for certain violet teacher/potw etc, they just aoe it and I'm all out of cards. Late game its lacking aswell, having no taunts it gets destroyed easily at earlygame, also having no heals, besides AoLheal which is pretty !@#$.
Any tips on how to play, Uly? All the spells got great synergy but it just seems to lack both defense and whenever you're going for a good combo like Violet Teacher+Innervate+POTW, or whatever, it just gets aoe'd too easily.
The problem is, this deck has a lot of spells and isn't nearly as heavy on minions as Suicide Aggro decks are. The PotW is technically a token, but it's one card for one token. There are only three cards which can generate more than one minion per card, and one of them is late-game. Since the deck is low on 1 drops and naught on Taunt, the Jugglers more often than not just get traded away (often downwards) without its text taking effect. Sometimes when it works it can work spectacularly, but it's a gamble that doesn't work out in your favor often. Maybe a single Juggler to add an additional element of unpredictability in the late game to the deck?
Yeah, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective), even though the Tokenlord deck is more straight-forward than the Wild Wild Pyro is, it still requires quite a bit of decision making (contrasted with to-the-face-only Suicide Aggro decks). When I play a class, I usually play two different decks which you have to mulligan very differently against, so if you run into the same opponent who remembers you, he can't be sure how to mulligan against you. The Tokenlord is the Value Aggro while Wild Wild Pyro is the Ramp/Control.
Unlike Suicide Aggro, you can make fairly good trades with the token deck due to the "Value" part of the "Value Aggro," but it takes a while to get a good feel for when to initiate trades and when to swing for the face. Suicide Aggro rarely makes trades because most trades are bad for them and left to the opponent to do, and they just swing for the face. A lot of Suicide Aggro decks run Taunt minions because so many of their minions trade poorly. In contrast, most of the minions in this trade fairly evenly by themselves, so it can afford to skip on Taunt to sqeeze in more smacks to the face, especially when there also isn't any Murloc Warleader or Flametongue Totem to protect.
As far as playing tips go. I think the most common pitfall is forgetting that this is not a control deck. Even though it has a substantially stronger late game than Suicide Aggro decks do, this is still an Aggro deck. You are supposed to swing for the face most of the time. This deck doesn't necessarily jump to a big health lead early like Suicide Aggro decks, but its burst mid game is surprisingly high.
Sometimes you see a Chillwind Yeti drop on the other side by a mid range, you look at your respective health, don't think you can win the race, and you stop swinging for the face and trade with the yeti and loses in the late game. A lot of the time when it gets into mid game vs. control and the health/board looks even, that actually means that you are ahead and you are supposed to swing for the face, not stablize the board.
In terms of pace, it's similar to standard Shaman decks. In other words, you don't want the game to reach the teens. It's an Aggro deck with staying power, up to maybe Turn 12. It's not a Control deck, even though it has certain advantages of Control decks. Once you start to hit the teens, the dedicated Control decks will probably win, so play to end the game before then, even though you may have to face-tank some Chillwinds going for it.
As far as AE goes. Yeah, you are risking AE, as most Aggro decks do. Hopefully, your board included the likes of Hoarders and Acolytes to get some cards back and recover quickly. You are also more likely to have minions survive past the AE. It can be especially hilarious if your Turn 4 Violet Teacher + Innervate + MotW hits Turn 1 Argent Squire, Turn 2 Hoarder, and/or Turn 3 Acolyte.
Bowles Watchers Druid:
Now bear in mind this is a pre nerf era deck. Tinkmaster Overspark must go. Nat Pagle probably needs to go as well.
Possible replacements? Bloodmage Thalnos might once again warrant a place after the nerf to Pagle. Big Game Hunter could be a band-aid solution to Tinkmaster.
Hafu Token Druid:
This one's probably more similar to your current deck, seeing all the PotWs and the Claws you're running.
Again, pre nerf deck. This is one is less impacted by the nerfs however. All you need to do is to replace Pagle with a second Loot Hoarder.
With 1600 dust and your current deck, I don't think I'll go for a legendary just yet. 2x Ancients of Lore and Force of Nature to start with. But if you insist on crafting a legendary, I recommend Ragnaros over Ysera.
Personally I feel Leeroy Jenkins isn't necessary either. The key power play here is Violet Teachers + Power of the Wild.
I've been having fun with the pyro deck the last few days. But I have a couple problems in the early game if I don't get a good draw. What do you do if you don't get any pyros or wild growths in the first few turns? It doesn't happen, but when it does, it's hard to recover.
It's kind of an inherent weakness of ramp decks. The higher density of 4+ drop minions to take advantage of the ramp also opens up the possibility of falling too far behind in the first few turns if you get no ramp and the opponent gets a good start. The Pyros are supposed to let you keep things under control early, but if you don't draw that either, then it can be a problem when your opponent gets to a fast start.
You are more than 99% likely to get at least 2x cards which aren't 4+ drop minions in the first three turns whether you go first or second. If neither of them is "Wild," then you are playing defense with two of Earthern Ring Farseer, Claw, Wrath, Naturalize, Innervate, and Swipe for the first three turns, which is not too bad in general, as the Innervate lets you play one of your 4+ and as a Druid you can Shapeshift, but that coupled with an excellent start for an Aggro opponent, it can be hard to recover.
The only advice I can give against 2x bad luck is to try to come up with good luck draw scenarios which can save you and play accordingly. A lot of times it looks bad at the start and you think you are forced to Innervate-Swipe on Turn 2 to kill one key minion to "slow them down," which usually end up with you still behind on the board and merely delays your inevitable death. Sometimes it is a good idea to Shapeshift instead and save your spells hoping you draw into a game-changing play.
With late good luck making up for early bad luck, you win when you don't Innervate-Swipe on Turn 2 to slow down a great start and they play the next two turns so that even a Swipe+Innervate+Wrath/Claw combo on Turn 4 would leave them with 3+ minions left to keep control of the board, then you draw into a Pyro for Pyro+Innervate+Swipe to wipe the whole board on Turn 4 and drop Taunt on Turn 5 for the win. In other words, instead of playing the "Trying to keep up but I'm falling far behind!" game, which almost always leads to a loss anyway, play the "What next few draws can win this for me?" game and play accordingly.
If you are running into a lot of Aggro, going 2x Shieldmasta standard is also a good idea, of course.
Yeah, just waiting until I draw something useful seems to work better than using swipe to kill one or two early minions.
I'm currently using the pyro deck you suggested but I added a big game hunter, a Ragnaros and a Sylvanas I got in a couple of packs. I'm getting close to the 1.600 dust again and I would like to ask your advice about the legendaries. Do you think the deck needs one in particular? or should I use the dust to craft a couple of ancients of war or something?
Oh yeah, definitely add those. As I said in the deck list, it does better if you have Legendaries to sub in for Chillwinds and Stranglethorns.
Crafting 2x Ancients of War to sub in for 2x Ironbark Protectors will improve the deck more than crafting any single Legendary I think. Those AoWs are just the most OP things aside from the AoLs and Innervates. That was really lucky with the Ragnaros and Sylvanas Windrunner pulls, as those are two at the top of the Legendary list for this. The Black Knight is probably the next Legendary to craft because he's useful in this and 17,080 other decks.
The other Legendary I like for this is Hogger. The strong board-wipe power of the deck really makes Hogger a pain to deal with. A lot of times you follow a board wipe with Hogger the next turn against Aggro, if their "recovery drops" following the board wipe can't kill him right then through his first 2/2 Taunt, it's usually a win. You can also add Ysera if you have her, but running Ysera without first replacing the Ironbarks with AoWs is very risky.
Man those AoWs really do make a difference. You would't think that getting those big taunts one turn earlier would be a big deal, but they really help.
About the legendaries. What do you think about Cairne? would it work or is The Black Knight better for this deck?
Oh yeah. Those AoWs are just monstrous 7 drops.
I think The Black Knight is higher priority than Cairne Bloodhoof is for this. The deck is true Control and can rarely manage the burst to skip the same-turn-Molten+Argus sweet spot of Handlocks. Holding TBK for that 9/9 Taunt really wins a lot of games. It beats running 2x BGH, because Taunt is more common than 7+ attack minions. Even some Huntard decks run Argus and/or Houndmaster.
Cairne is more generally useful than Hogger is, and as such is a good craft to sub for Hogger in this after TBK. If you just happen to have pulled Hogger from a pack, then he's good in this; if you haven't, then Cairne is a more generally useful craft, since Hogger is only strong in a few select deck types. I think TBK and Sylvanas are both substantially more powerful 6 drop in this deck, though.
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