Removal of Innervate

Posts: 19
This card is too similar to the Black Lotus of M:TG fame of 0 cast for 3 of any mana, in this game, innervate is 0 for 2 mana, but I feel is superior due to only 40 cards in the deck.

Too good of a card, needs to be 0 for 1 mana. Or it needs to be removed. You can literally drop a turn 1 -- 6 mana cost creature with 2 of these and a coin, or a 5 casting cost critter 7/6 on turn 1.

YES you got to have it in your hand, and its never a bad draw, but lets get real, the BLACK LOTUS was overpowered for a reason, and this card is way too similar to it. I mean on ebay it goes for thousands of dollars in game, druid class gets it off the bat for being a druid.

TOO good of a card, nerf it.
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Posts: 4,262
Good thing we only got 30 cards!

next
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Posts: 1,615
so the only druid basic card worth a single darn (and even that is debatable) needs to be nerfed?
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Posts: 1,238
Hearthstone isn't Magic, the reason Black Lotus was super-duper broken wasn't because it gave 3 mana (though this is still really broken in Magic), it's because it allowed for a turn 1 OTK.
THAT was broken.

Now, Coin-Innervating out a !@#$ing Druid of the Claw, is pretty damn strong on turn 1 (Or Cairne on turn 2, shudder), but it's not an instant loss, and against some classes, it's a pretty dumb play (Hunter's Mark anyone?).
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Posts: 623
Black Lotus isn't a good comparison (setting aside the fact that these are significantly different games anyway). M:TG is significantly affected by the potential scarcity of mana due to not drawing enough land plus since one color decks generally weren't effective (at least they weren't considered to be way back when I played and I doubt that has changed with time) you needed more than one land type in your deck which increased potential scarcity for the mana type you needed. A guaranteed one mana increase per turn and no colors to worry about makes a one turn gain of mana significantly less valuable overall.
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Posts: 1
Innervate is absolutely not in the same class as Black Lotus and it is being disingenuous to say that it is. Black Lotus worked because it could give mana of any color and was built before WotC understood how the game of Magic worked. There is no comparable three-drop in the entire game that can give Innervate anywhere near the same power as Black Lotus. Hearthstone is built around creatures; creatures die constantly. Even a turn 2 Yeti is often dead before turn 4.

At best Innervate is close to a Dark Ritual. But even then Dark Ritual was powerful because it could lead to a turn-one Hypnotic Specter. Again, there is nothing in the Druid arsenal that breaks the game when placed on the first turn for three mana; later in the game Innervate is often a dead drop.
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Posts: 184
Yeah it's a good card

until you're topdecking and it's completely useless
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Posts: 59
03/29/2014 07:10 PMPosted by TheShovel
since one color decks generally weren't effective (at least they weren't considered to be way back when I played and I doubt that has changed with time)


Just had to fix this. This is nonsense. Mono decks have ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALLLLLWAAAAYS. been playable, and often dominant. Goblins are always around, Necro and Tolarian Academy defined their formats, and various specific mono decks have basically always been competitive. I haven't played in a long time, but the only time I remember mono not being a major aspect of block-constructed was during Apocolypse, when the designers forced the meta towards multicolor decks by making a butt-ton of multi-cards.

You're not dumb, or anything, but you are an insane person.
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Posts: 1,238
04/01/2014 11:39 PMPosted by IPutGodAway
03/29/2014 07:10 PMPosted by TheShovel
since one color decks generally weren't effective (at least they weren't considered to be way back when I played and I doubt that has changed with time)


Just had to fix this. This is nonsense. Mono decks have ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALLLLLWAAAAYS. been playable, and often dominant. Goblins are always around, Necro and Tolarian Academy defined their formats, and various specific mono decks have basically always been competitive. I haven't played in a long time, but the only time I remember mono not being a major aspect of block-constructed was during Apocolypse, when the designers forced the meta towards multicolor decks by making a butt-ton of multi-cards.

You're not dumb, or anything, but you are an insane person.


Necro Summer saw a really sharp drop in Mono Decks due to Ivory Tower-Library-Necro being a game-breaking combo. That's not to say they completely faded out, but there were a lot more Multi-Color splashing Black than pure Black.
Edited by VSarius on 4/1/2014 11:56 PM PDT
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Posts: 19
Turn 1: Druid of the claw is beast, so is Turn 1: Chillwind Yeti. If you manage to pull 2 innervates, and a coin, you got 6 mana out the gate for a Boulderfist ogre.

It is quite strong.

As far as mono colored M:TG decks, Necro and Goblins are pretty beast, or at least they were in their time so yes mono can do it quite well and won quite a few tourneys.

HS has major issues though, lots of cards seem to be copies of M:TG ones.
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Posts: 10
Turn 1: Druid of the claw is beast, so is Turn 1: Chillwind Yeti. If you manage to pull 2 innervates, and a coin, you got 6 mana out the gate for a Boulderfist ogre.
.


Turn 3 Coin + Innervate x2 to drop Rag is an amazing feeling. Unless of course they have a BGH or you're playing a mage/shaman. The sheer ridiculousness of it always gives me a laugh, regardless of if it gets removed the turn after or not.
Edited by phen0m on 4/2/2014 2:26 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,238
04/02/2014 02:24 PMPosted by phen0m
Turn 1: Druid of the claw is beast, so is Turn 1: Chillwind Yeti. If you manage to pull 2 innervates, and a coin, you got 6 mana out the gate for a Boulderfist ogre.
.


Turn 3 Coin + Innervate x2 to drop Rag is an amazing feeling. Unless of course they have a BGH or you're playing a mage/shaman. The sheer ridiculousness of it always gives me a laugh, regardless of if it gets removed the turn after or not.


...I think that qualifies as The Innervate Dream.
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Posts: 623
I stand corrected on the one color deck thing, I appreciate the people that weren't jerks in their correction of me.

04/02/2014 02:58 PMPosted by VSarius
...I think that qualifies as The Innervate Dream.


The other day using a Watcher deck I coined a Watcher out on turn 1 and then turn 2 did Innervate x2, Yeti, Sunfury Protector. This was against a rush warlock, he conceded at over 20 health.
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Posts: 3,443
My best Innervate play was the other day in Arena when I got a turn 4 Ironbark Protector. Basically won the game right there, but as is usually the case with early Innervate plays if your opponent has removal you're screwed.
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Posts: 66
How about ancient watcher at turn 2, silence him with Priest Silence for 0 cost, and double his health with Divine Spirit :D then use inner force, all by turn 3. Sure you may not get all those cards by turn 3 but atleast youll get something. Inner force with Shadow words or Big game hunter is a sweet combo too, make your opponent sweet 4 attack equal his health which is usually 3 and below or 5 and above.
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Posts: 311
yes you can summon a powerful minion early but for the cost of 3 or even 4 cards (minin+innervate+innervate/+coin) so your opponent can remove the minion and you're out of 3 or 4 cards early game

you wanna know what is annoying:
priest:
turn 1: coin into lightwell
turn 2: divine spirit 0/10
turn 3: divine spirit+inner fire ... 20/20 to the face

if you don't have silence chances are you're going down on turn 4

but I don't complain because priests usually suck
Edited by Jacob on 4/8/2014 10:10 AM PDT
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Posts: 40
03/28/2014 06:47 PMPosted by Albedo
so the only druid basic card worth a single darn (and even that is debatable) needs to be nerfed?


swipe is good . starfall and keeper of the grove are good and are flexible . soul of the forest is nice if you have board control . in fact druids tend to do pretty well overall going by the figures . innervate kind of nulls the coin and basically just lets them throw out a legendary fast
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Posts: 375
04/08/2014 09:13 PMPosted by NoOne
starfall and keeper of the grove are good and are flexible . soul of the forest is nice

But they are not basic cards...

Anyway comparing Black Lotus with innervate is just wrong. In mtg you don't get automatic 1 more mana each round, therefore round 5 doesn't mean you got 5 mana to play. It's a mana color of your choice. It counts as an artifact. And it can be used for an one-turn-kill.
Where Innervate has less value, since you only got 3 (or 4) cards on your starthand (compared to 7). Your early yeti, dotc, cairne or whatever minion is strong, but can be easily removed by some spells/minions.
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Posts: 776
03/28/2014 06:47 PMPosted by Albedo
so the only druid basic card worth a single darn (and even that is debatable) needs to be nerfed?


It's maybe the most broken card in the whole game, I love druid but I do think it needs to be reworked.
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Posts: 14
What about changing innervate to:

Innervate
Cost: 0
Text: Refill two spent mana crystals.

That would make innervate extend the utility of a mana pool without allowing the use of cards that shouldn't be playable for another 2 - 4 turns. It would also bring the card more in line with the functionality of it's counterpart in WOW. Innervate in WOW is not about INCREASING the size of a mana pool, it's about restoring used mana. (Actually the class that has the ability to increase mana pool size in WOW is the mage - via arcane intellect.) That would still make it a good card for increasing tempo in the early game, while allowing late game combos that are otherwise not possible. For example a druid playing an innervate would still be able to play something like - Power of the Wild - Innervate - Mark of the Wild - giving them a 5/4 taunt on turn 2, which is still a very strong play. It would prevent some of the more stupidly powerful early game plays like though, like turn two - Coin - Innervate - Innervate - Ancient of War.
Edited by GZero on 4/10/2014 1:38 PM PDT
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