How can we balance Unleash the Hounds?

Posts: 941
04/03/2014 07:54 PMPosted by cry11
Not allowing hounds to attack directly would be creating a new type of card text and a new game mechanic. Whilst it's a novel idea and pretty good I'll grant you, putting money on Blizzard implementing such a complicated solution would be fairly risky.

While I don't think it's a good solution, we already have Ancient Watcher. "Can't Attack Heroes." would not be difficult for people to understand.
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Posts: 6,910
The solution to UTH is this.

Remove the "is a beast".

That would prevent most of the UTH buffing and would also prevent the buzzard + UTH for obscene card draw.
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Posts: 29,664
Solutions to fixing middle of the pack classes, seems legit bros.
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Posts: 20
accually removing the beast is a good idea, usually you dont die to the hounds, you die because he draws his entire deck while playing that card, cutting that crazy draw can give a chance
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Posts: 4,490
04/03/2014 04:37 AMPosted by Ecad
Obviously the most imbalanced card out there right now is this card.

In my opinion either:
1. Remove charge from the hounds

or

2. Summon a 1/1 hound for each enemy minion, minus 1. (If enemy has 3 minions, you will summon 2 hounds)

or

3. Increase cost to 4 mana


Hounds is probably ok right now...some of the interactions when the card is combod is quite ridiculous but I also enjoy seeing Hunter is constructed for once too...

Maybe something very slight:

Unleash the Hounds: 2 mana, Summon 1/1 Hounds(with charge) until you have as many MINIONS as your opponent.

This seems fair and still allows the card to be super explosive but would dial back a little on the interactions with Buzzards and such.

I dunno...I feel like Hunter needs dialed back a tad but I'm not sure if it's just the mechanics of Charge and how it functions or if it's Unleash and it's interactions with other Hunter cards...

Anyways, it is nice seeing Hunter in constructed again but I am sick of playing them every other(or at least every third) game and being able to just "oops, I win" games they have no business winning.
Edited by Intoshadows on 4/4/2014 11:19 AM PDT
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Posts: 279
Has someone proposed yet that we can alter Vulture to just affect beasts summoned from the Hunters hand? I feel like this fixes all the problems.

Then Hyena death, Snake Trap, and Hounds don't proc the Vulture, which brings Vulture into line. Still good, just can't go insane with Vulture + Hounds.

I think without the Vulture abuse, Hounds is a fair card. Seems like the simplest tweak to fix all problems. UtH and Vulture still retain their value as very useful cards, they just can't team up to form Voltron anymore.
Edited by LudusRex on 4/4/2014 11:25 AM PDT
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Posts: 66
I got hit with this combo, two times in a row and finally died. I had a board full of strong minions, and my opponent just flooded me with hounds and went straight for the kill. He had a Timber wolf and one hound. i wiped the board with consecration, then he did it again. I was so mad.

I thought it was a game breaking bug until i actually read the card. I wont even cry OP lol...
Edited by Capo9 on 4/4/2014 11:36 AM PDT
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Posts: 485
04/04/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Intoshadows
04/03/2014 04:37 AMPosted by Ecad
Obviously the most imbalanced card out there right now is this card.

In my opinion either:
1. Remove charge from the hounds

or

2. Summon a 1/1 hound for each enemy minion, minus 1. (If enemy has 3 minions, you will summon 2 hounds)

or

3. Increase cost to 4 mana


Hounds is probably ok right now...some of the interactions when the card is combod is quite ridiculous but I also enjoy seeing Hunter is constructed for once too...

Maybe something very slight:

Unleash the Hounds: 2 mana, Summon 1/1 Hounds(with charge) until you have as many MINIONS as your opponent.

This seems fair and still allows the card to be super explosive but would dial back a little on the interactions with Buzzards and such.

I dunno...I feel like Hunter needs dialed back a tad but I'm not sure if it's just the mechanics of Charge and how it functions or if it's Unleash and it's interactions with other Hunter cards...

Anyways, it is nice seeing Hunter in constructed again but I am sick of playing them every other(or at least every third) game and being able to just "oops, I win" games they have no business winning.


I'm not saying I think it needs changing
but this seems like a somewhat reasonable "solution"
it would still allow for some card draw from the combo OR the buffing of the hounds OR hyena
while it would help stop the insane combo's where people drop buzzards AND uth AND hyena AND timber wolves in a single turn (sometimes multiple)
Edited by Zwenkwiel on 4/4/2014 1:16 PM PDT
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Posts: 70
dont play more the 2 attack minions until he blows both UTH, duh.... works 88% of the time where the other time he has 2 kill commands and the game took to long. so the 10 dmg finished you.
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Posts: 39
My win rate against Hunters playing the UTH combo went to about 90% once I started playing two minions max, or three if taunted.

Still gotta' play around those traps though.
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Posts: 60
Make the Hounds not count as beasts. All AoE cards in the game are balanced around hitting two minions, or two-and-a-half if they also hit the hero.

For example: Flamestrike = 8 damage for 7 mana. Consecration = 6 damage for 4 mana. Swipe: 6 damage for 4 mana.

Unleash The Hounds... 2 damage for 2 mana, but that damage is manipulable, justifying the slightly lower efficiency.

The only problem with UTH is the beast synergy, which isn't actually as bad as a lot of people believe (buzzard + UTH against 2 enemies nets you 0 cards and 3 terrible minions for 4 mana), but still fairly ridiculous.
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Posts: 279
04/04/2014 03:14 PMPosted by Yewb
Make the Hounds not count as beasts. All AoE cards in the game are balanced around hitting two minions, or two-and-a-half if they also hit the hero.

For example: Flamestrike = 8 damage for 7 mana. Consecration = 6 damage for 4 mana. Swipe: 6 damage for 4 mana.

Unleash The Hounds... 2 damage for 2 mana, but that damage is manipulable, justifying the slightly lower efficiency.

The only problem with UTH is the beast synergy, which isn't actually as bad as a lot of people believe (buzzard + UTH against 2 enemies nets you 0 cards and 3 terrible minions for 4 mana), but still fairly ridiculous.


I'm not entirely sure that the synergy with Hyena or Timberwolf is unfair. It's mostly just the synergy with Buzzard that's bordering on OP. Is it too large a nerf for Buzzard if it only draws card off of Beasts summoned from hand (not from spells or other come into play mechanics)? Then Hounds and Buzzard are both mostly the same, just Buzzard can't go supernova off of Hounds or Snake Trap.
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Posts: 455
buzzard should only ALWAYS give 1 draw with UTH then it would be perfectly balanced..
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Posts: 4,576
I'm just not seeing why UTH is drawing this much flack, it's a good spell, and amazing in combination, but virtually every piece of the puzzle is fragile.

Buzzard / Timberwolf have 1 freaking health, so yeah they're good for their one turn and then they are meat, and particularly vulnerable to druids, rogues, mages, and possibly warrior or shaman if they have a weapon equipped, and they still make juicy targets for any kind of direct damage spell - which every class has.

don't flood the board against hunters, and probably you shouldn't be flooding the board against anyone since you're just begging for an AOE of some kind.

Maybe even run with some taunt, Abomination stops UTH dead straight away.
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Posts: 2,576
04/04/2014 04:07 PMPosted by koz

don't flood the board against hunters, and probably you shouldn't be flooding the board against anyone since you're just begging for an AOE of some kind.

Maybe even run with some taunt, Abomination stops UTH dead straight away.


See, this is willful ignorance. Hunters have some of the best ways to deal with taunt in the game, not to mention they can drop a low cost beast with silence that works with the UTH combo. It cops so much flak because no other card in the game even comes close to dictating the pace and outcome of a match the way UTH does (and funnily enough, the card that does come closest is probably Leeroy. Hint hint). Even if you don't "flood the board", the Hunter will just shoot you in the face while maintaining board control with cheap removals and damaging spells. It's not even just UTH that is the issue; it gets focused on because it's the card the opponent has to play around.

The problem is that the Hunter can do so much for such little cost, and "counterplay" against UTH by not "flooding the board" allows the Hunter to punish you with multi-shot, deadly shot, kill command, hunters mark, explosive shot, explosive trap, freezing trap, arcane shot etc while spamming his hero ability. Playing around UTH plays straight into the rest of the Hunters deck and punishes you.
Edited by Dishrack on 4/4/2014 4:34 PM PDT
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Posts: 385
UtH has been described by some as the best CCG card ever made. I would say make the hounds that smae but unable to benefit from other passives.
Edited by Belrox on 4/4/2014 4:52 PM PDT
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Posts: 279
04/04/2014 04:52 PMPosted by Belrox
UtH has been described by some as the best CCG card ever made. I would say make the hounds that smae but unable to benefit from other passives.


I'm not sure anyone has ever made that claim.

...except you, in a really, really stupid thread from a few days ago.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/12330403324
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Posts: 240
Increase cost to 3 mana.

/Thread
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Posts: 3
It is my belief that it's fine as it is.
Even, it poke real good at rush decks,..
It's a strategy. If you know the strat, you find a way to go around it, and that's it, right? Even if the hunter have all the big combo deal in hand (buzzards, wolfs, UTH and whats not), if there is not a whole army on the other side, what good does it give the hunter, beside waiting to play it until he drown in is own hound's s**t?

It's not UTH that need to be balanced (in my point of view, anyway), it's more a question to balance one own deck... And ...is there a perfect deck out there anyway? Even starter deck can win anything...if the draw is on is side.

(By the way...i don't defend UTH beco i play it (witch i do when i play hunter). Yes i love it. But since a good while now, i really enjoy my Warrior deck. And i don't freak when i see a hunter! ahahahah)
Edited by Moonwind on 4/4/2014 5:03 PM PDT
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