Explosive Trap feels like a False Choice

Posts: 1
This has just been kind of frustrating me for a while. I thought the purpose of Secrets was to "bait the enemy into making bad plays" (I think I saw that in the portal, on that post about making Secrets only activate on the opponents' turn). I don't really think Explosive Trap offers that at all.

If it's Freezing Trap (or Vaporize), you can pick a weaker or low-health minion to attack with first. If it's Snipe (or Mirror Entity), you can summon something expendable. You can make a choice that will lessen the impact of the trap immensely. You can't reasonably stop it from triggering, but when it does go off, you can make it do less.

But Explosive Trap doesn't feel that way. It doesn't matter what I attack with - my entire board is going to take that damage. Everything I've played is doomed. The way I feel when I see it, it might as well just be a flat Spell instead of a Secret.

You can't reasonably stop it from triggering, and you can't trigger it in a way that makes it do less damage. It might not be 'overpowered', but it's certainly frustrating. It boasts the Secret mechanic, and that makes me think that I should be able to do something about it. But even when I see it coming, it feels like there's nothing I can do. It's just like, "Welp, that's 2 damage to everything I own. Might as well eat it now."

Some games I play against hunters, I come away with a sour taste from it, because of this. Do you also feel this way? Or if you don't, why not?
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Posts: 1,203
It's not accurate that there's nothing you can do against Explosive Trap. There are buffs like Call of the Wild(using the +1/+1 to all minions rather than 3/2 Panther), Stormwind Champion(+1/+1 to all other minions), Hand of Protection(gives a minion divine shield), etc. If you're a Hunter yourself there's Flare that will remove the opponent's trap. Than there's the basic principle of minimizing the damage, if you know it's Explosive Shot than attack first and summon new minions afterwards rather than summon new minions to also get exploded. Still, usually you don't actually know whether it's Explosive Trap, Freeze Trap or Misdirection, which does actually force you into making bad plays which is what you admitted secrets are supposed to do.
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Posts: 133
You don't have to attack. Don't trigger the trap and force the Hunter to play into your minions so you can trade them off rather than have them die for nothing.
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Posts: 23
"You don't have to attack." Lol let's see how that works out for you against most hunters. There's a time and a place to not trigger the traps I agree; but the main point of this post still stands. If you want to do damage to the hunter, sooner or later your board will have to take the 2 damage. If you have no way to buff or heal minions out of that range, there's 0 point to not attacking. Obviously sometimes you have to wait to attack with a smaller minion if you think it might be misdirect or freezing trap, but overall the "don't trigger the traps' nonsense is just that - nonsense. Many times against a hunter it's a mad race for damage, if I skip a couple of minion attacks to strategically trigger the traps, I've most likely already given the hunter the time advantage he needed to win the race.
Edited by Sabs on 4/6/2014 12:30 PM PDT
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Posts: 643
consider including in your deck cards like these: shattered sun cleric, defender of argus and just about any other stuff that can buff your health. You do have some actual choices of pushing your units past the 2 hp range. Oh and, consider adding some enrage minions as well, dropping an amani berserker before triggering the trap, will force the huntard to react.
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Posts: 16
I've already said this in another post but since this one is still active i'll say it here.

Explosive trap, despite some hunter player saying that it is not true (only hunter players of course lol), is really good for the cost and sinergy it has. Because no matter what you do (Except Flare or Counterspell) you will always get 2 face dmg for 2 mana ON THE BEST CASE SCENARIO. It can be a lot worst. This is equivalent to hero power on the hunter's opponent turn. This doesn't seem much but to the rush hunters that plague this meta that is a precious amount of damage. Also, in the sinergy part, the hunter will get one durability if he has the weapon equipped. That is +3dmg. This can probably be a total of 5 face dmg for 2 mana, better than kill command if it works.

You ppl say that it can be avoided. But that hardly happens unless you got the inical hand to do it. They will start controlling board with secrets and when you ended up getting control he silences your taunt and screws you over with UTH or something.

They usually play Explosive Trap on turn 4, after equipping weapon on the turn before.
There's one of 2 things here:
- Trade everything on board
- Rush for the face and get rekt

Ok, i traded everything, now what? he still has the secret and the weapon. Time to play a taunt. For this you need to actually have a taunt. That's easy if you are an handlock, but if not you might not have a taunt in your hand. But let's suppose you play a taunt. The hunter might play a card or 2. You trade one card, he finishes off the taunt on the next turn. You got 2 cards for one, but what the hell does that matter against a hunter? Unless you can keep placing taunt he will wreck you because eventually you will hit his face and he will deal 2 dmg to your whole side of the board

My point is that it is really hard to avoid that card, it is always 2 face dmg no matter what and like i said, that little bit of diference is of max importance. Most of hunter rush decks have the ability to finish you off even if you picked the game up, because they always have 2 face dmg for 2 mana, and UTH or Kill Command (or both) to finish you off. That's why every early game dmg is really important for a hunter
Edited by Kailido on 4/7/2014 7:43 AM PDT
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Posts: 453
Explosive Trap, Freezing Trap and Vaporize are all completely different in terms of how you must use them.

Explosive Trap is usually something that can be expected. I typically drop it with no Minions out since I want it to trigger on the next minion attack regardless. My opponent should know it's there and either accept it or find a way around it. I saw a Druid with 3x 2 health minions wait till he cast a "Power of the Wild" to give his minions that +1 more health and survive. It won him the game too cause I had to spend too many more resources eliminating those 3 minions I expected to die from 1 card.

Freezing/Vaporize to me are useful after a board wipe like a Flamestrike or Explosive Trap or Abomination or Wild Pyro. They're saving a Minion they don't want to get hurt with that AOE they're anticipating and they'll drop it and maybe 1 other after you wipe. You need to eliminate the choice of throwing a small minion at you on your turn unless that minion has charge which is a nice tactic but not always a good deck choice. Nobody wants to run Wolf Rider or Stone Tusk Boar just to hunt land mines. :) Although I've seen it done more and more recently. Think about it. Flamestrike, drop a Gruul or something, then next turn Boar, pop the land mine, attack for the house.

Tactics!
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Posts: 5
Where is all the complaining about ET taking place? At mid level ranks (~10) I already see a lot of people dealing with my ET in a more educated/intelligent way. Dispatching any minions I have with their minions before triggering it since they know they'll die anyway (if under 2HP). Or they just taunt out, stall, and take the time to card draw and slow play it OR buff minions beyond 2HP. Even if I hero power, they're still ahead in terms of card draw.

The real power of the ET is the fact it merely exists. I'll throw out other traps, not just ET during an "ET moment" where it seems like the standard person is laying a completely obvious ET and use that to buy myself time. He goes through all the trouble to buff up his minion beyond 2HP only for it to get sent back to his hand with a freezing trap.

Wait for another ET moment and play snake trap. Toss out a single minion. They'll think it's ET, decide it's the best decision to attack the minion instead, and I get three free 1/1s that more than likely aren't getting destroyed that turn. Next turn play Timber + Hyena and clear the board, sit on a buffed hyena.

People have options when playing ET or against it. It just takes a little thought and planning. It's not as black and white as people tend to make it out to be.
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Posts: 528
I must have missed flare and counterspell in the neutral cards. Where is it? O right mage and hunter only like hunter needs it...

Explosive trap is over powered because its nearly unavoidable. With counterspell i can wait many turns to trigger it with a throw away spell for the situation. With most other secrets I can throw out or attack with a weak minion and dramatically reduce the effect. There is no way to reduce the effect of explosive trap. Hearthstone simply needs a "flare" that is neutral. Freeze stops weapons from working why not have silence destroy 1 or all secrets they have out, freeze them so they cant activate that turn, not allow them to play secrets or not allow them to play spells. Silence should do something to help. Id like to see an alternate ooze that eats secrets like say blood knight say +3/+3 per secret eaten.
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Posts: 1,116
You can't avoid consecration either, what's the problem? At least explosive trap gives you the opportunity to play around it by trading or buffing.
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Posts: 33
04/09/2014 09:16 PMPosted by Astrohawke
You can't avoid consecration either, what's the problem? At least explosive trap gives you the opportunity to play around it by trading or buffing.


It is a bit different in the sense of when it happens. There is very little in the game that you can do to affect an opponent on the opponent's turn. This is one of the cases. Consecration, flamestrike, swipe, whirlwind, etc all happen on your turn. This is your opponent's turn. Can be better or worse depending on the situation and the ability of the opponent efficiently draw out secrets.
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Posts: 1,103
04/09/2014 09:16 PMPosted by Astrohawke
You can't avoid consecration either, what's the problem? At least explosive trap gives you the opportunity to play around it by trading or buffing.


because ppl r morons
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Posts: 224
If you think its an explosive trap don't attack his face, attack his minions.
If he have no minions, don't attack his face for a turn or 2 , he can't play minions and think you figure it out its an explosive trap and he can only deal hero power on you and you just summon hp higher than 2 hp or buff your minions above 2hp and flood the board.
Mindblown that you can do that?
thats how you work around traps.
of cos he can buzz + uth that depends what cards he had played and what in your hand to counter that.
Edited by Hunkfish on 4/10/2014 7:10 AM PDT
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Posts: 96
Freezing is broken. It shouldn't add to the cost of the card it traps, cause that would actually add some sense.
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Posts: 96
04/10/2014 07:08 AMPosted by Hunkfish
If you think its an explosive trap don't attack his face, attack his minions.
If he have no minions, don't attack his face for a turn or 2 , he can't play minions and think you figure it out its an explosive trap and he can only deal hero power on you and you just summon hp higher than 2 hp or buff your minions above 2hp and flood the board.
Mindblown that you can do that?
thats how you work around traps.
of cos he can buzz + uth that depends what cards he had played and what in your hand to counter that.


Huntard trying to strategize lmao like can you even read. Wtf are you saying.
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Posts: 1,816
Explosive Trap makes up for the fact that Hunters have no other full board AoE. Perhaps making it a secret is poor design; maybe it should just be spell rather than something that triggers on the opponent's turn.
Edited by GateKeeper on 4/10/2014 9:38 AM PDT
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Posts: 523
Explosive trap is easy to play around.
Just use spell damage. (Since they won't really be running any taunts)
& pass.
Or Argus.
Or Prep board for after explosive trap.
Etc
Etc.

They literally won't be able to do anything but dink you for 2 damage with the hero ability.
Edited by Hamsta on 4/10/2014 10:28 AM PDT
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Posts: 453
04/10/2014 10:27 AMPosted by Hamsta
Explosive trap is easy to play around.
Just use spell damage. (Since they won't really be running any taunts)
& pass.
Or Argus.
Or Prep board for after explosive trap.
Etc
Etc.

They literally won't be able to do anything but dink you for 2 damage with the hero ability.


Smartest post so far.

I find that players panic against traps and don't prepare for them.
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Posts: 520
I love explosive trap! It makes my armorsmith give me a bunch of armor, my acolyte of pain draws me a card and my frothing gets HUGE. Oh wait.. there is the answer! Stop playing 2hp minion rush decks and get some skill scrub cake. I have been on the hunter forums calling for a change but ET nerf is not the answer. As said in this thread most of the time ET comes down on turn 3-4 (depending on coin plays or not) at this point the most this card should kill is your 1 and 2 drop. If you play a good 2 drop like amani zerker the hunter takes 5 damage to the dome.
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Posts: 1,203
04/09/2014 09:58 PMPosted by Starry
04/09/2014 09:16 PMPosted by Astrohawke
You can't avoid consecration either, what's the problem? At least explosive trap gives you the opportunity to play around it by trading or buffing.


It is a bit different in the sense of when it happens. There is very little in the game that you can do to affect an opponent on the opponent's turn. This is one of the cases. Consecration, flamestrike, swipe, whirlwind, etc all happen on your turn. This is your opponent's turn. Can be better or worse depending on the situation and the ability of the opponent efficiently draw out secrets.


You make it seem like affecting the opponent on his turn rather than your own gives you some kind of advantage, when in fact the contrary is usually correct. Unless you're relying heavily on charge minions, Consecration, Holy Nova, etc will always be better than Explosive Trap, because they happen on your own turn. Think about it this way, the Hunter laid his Explosive Trap and passed the turn to you. You can now trigger the Explosive trap with whatever you had on the board, which won't be much if he did it early in the game, and than play a bunch of minions after it's safe. Whereas if it was a Consecration other AoE than you played another minion or 2 on top of what you already had on the board and than the Consecration wipes out your entire board, including the minion(s) you just played. So it's a trade off between a few points of damage and taking out more minions. Considering that against an aggro Hunter you are usually the control player, a few extra points of damage don't matter all that much, as you just need to survive long enough for the Hunter to run out of steam, not try to race him.

Basically the only time you'll want to actually race an aggro Hunter is if you play an aggro deck yourself, in which case you're also playing a "braindead takes 0 skills" deck as you whiners love to put it. So than it becomes a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. So which is it, are you a hypocrite to say the least or just a bad player who doesn't understand the fundamentals of TCGs? P.S the following article, while not a Hearthstone article and quite old too, will give you insight on the above mentioned fundamental that you and a lot of other whiners seem to lack. So go ahead and read it, ignore the specific MTG cards, they're not that relevant, just understand the concept of what he's saying and translate it from MTG to Hearthstone, as it works for all TCGs. Here's the article, by the famous old time MTG pro Mike Flores: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/3692_Whos_The_Beatdown.html
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