Explosive Trap feels like a False Choice

Posts: 967
04/10/2014 06:52 PMPosted by OwlRaider
04/09/2014 09:58 PMPosted by Starry
...

It is a bit different in the sense of when it happens. There is very little in the game that you can do to affect an opponent on the opponent's turn. This is one of the cases. Consecration, flamestrike, swipe, whirlwind, etc all happen on your turn. This is your opponent's turn. Can be better or worse depending on the situation and the ability of the opponent efficiently draw out secrets.


You make it seem like affecting the opponent on his turn rather than your own gives you some kind of advantage, when in fact the contrary is usually correct. Unless you're relying heavily on charge minions, Consecration, Holy Nova, etc will always be better than Explosive Trap, because they happen on your own turn. Think about it this way, the Hunter laid his Explosive Trap and passed the turn to you. You can now trigger the Explosive trap with whatever you had on the board, which won't be much if he did it early in the game, and than play a bunch of minions after it's safe. Whereas if it was a Consecration other AoE than you played another minion or 2 on top of what you already had on the board and than the Consecration wipes out your entire board, including the minion(s) you just played. So it's a trade off between a few points of damage and taking out more minions. Considering that against an aggro Hunter you are usually the control player, a few extra points of damage don't matter all that much, as you just need to survive long enough for the Hunter to run out of steam, not try to race him.

Basically the only time you'll want to actually race an aggro Hunter is if you play an aggro deck yourself, in which case you're also playing a "braindead takes 0 skills" deck as you whiners love to put it. So than it becomes a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. So which is it, are you a hypocrite to say the least or just a bad player who doesn't understand the fundamentals of TCGs? P.S the following article, while not a Hearthstone article and quite old too, will give you insight on the above mentioned fundamental that you and a lot of other whiners seem to lack. So go ahead and read it, ignore the specific MTG cards, they're not that relevant, just understand the concept of what he's saying and translate it from MTG to Hearthstone, as it works for all TCGs. Here's the article, by the famous old time MTG pro Mike Flores: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/3692_Whos_The_Beatdown.html


You're consistently on a clock vs. Hunters so you need to kill them eventually, and if they kill most of your early drops with a 2 mana spell that deals 2 damage to face AND your minions, AND gives him another charge on his bow, it's a bit ridiculous
Reply Quote
Posts: 378
I agree with the OP, Explosive Trap just really has no way to play around it. At least with the other traps you can try and mitigate the damage. With explosive trap you just have to eat it, the best you can do is attack first and wait to play minions after you've tripped it. You can't not attack the Hunter, especially considering his Hero Power basically puts the game on a countdown to doom. Secrets in general are kind of annoying (8 of the 9 classes can do absolutely nothing about them except trigger them and hope for the best) but I get what they're going for so I leave them be. Explosive Trap is a bridge too far IMO.
Reply Quote
Posts: 455
04/11/2014 08:36 AMPosted by cypherhalo
I agree with the OP, Explosive Trap just really has no way to play around it. At least with the other traps you can try and mitigate the damage. With explosive trap you just have to eat it, the best you can do is attack first and wait to play minions after you've tripped it. You can't not attack the Hunter, especially considering his Hero Power basically puts the game on a countdown to doom. Secrets in general are kind of annoying (8 of the 9 classes can do absolutely nothing about them except trigger them and hope for the best) but I get what they're going for so I leave them be. Explosive Trap is a bridge too far IMO.


Explosive Trap is just another AOE. If you don't expect AOE from every class you need to plan better. When a Druid hits 4 mana expect Swipe. When a Paladin hits 4 mana, expect Consecrate. When a Mage hits 2 mana, 4, mana, 6 mana and 7 mana expect Arcane Blast, Thalnos+Arcane Blast, Blizzard, or Flamestrike. When a Hunter drops a trap with no minions in play, expect an Explosive trap.

Unlike other AOEs, with Explosive trap at least decide if you can make the best of the situation before it triggers. You can trigger it with what you have and play other minions after. You can buff them with Argus to let them survive. Or you can wait until you draw Flare if you're playing in a mirror match. You could play Commanding Shout and save all of your minions.

Just because Explosive Trap is a Secret and you're getting burned by it doesn't mean there's not answers. Deal with it like any AOE out there. It's the only one Hunters have.
Reply Quote
Posts: 378
04/11/2014 01:24 PMPosted by Kayas

Explosive Trap is just another AOE. If you don't expect AOE from every class you need to plan better. When a Druid hits 4 mana expect Swipe. When a Paladin hits 4 mana, expect Consecrate. When a Mage hits 2 mana, 4, mana, 6 mana and 7 mana expect Arcane Blast, Thalnos+Arcane Blast, Blizzard, or Flamestrike. When a Hunter drops a trap with no minions in play, expect an Explosive trap.

Unlike other AOEs, with Explosive trap at least decide if you can make the best of the situation before it triggers. You can trigger it with what you have and play other minions after. You can buff them with Argus to let them survive. Or you can wait until you draw Flare if you're playing in a mirror match. You could play Commanding Shout and save all of your minions.

Just because Explosive Trap is a Secret and you're getting burned by it doesn't mean there's not answers. Deal with it like any AOE out there. It's the only one Hunters have.


Oh no, I won't hear this nonsense. Hunters have plenty of removal with multi-shot, arcane shot, UTH. I've played plenty of games where Hunters are able to clear the board so I'm sick and tired of hearing this nonsense that they "don't have AOE" especially when the UTH combo is ridiculously broken. Their isn't really a good time to trigger Explosive Trap. At best, you could maybe wait a turn, a game against a Hunter is a race against time (thanks to that hero power) so you can't just sit around waiting for a nice time to trigger Explosive Trap.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,171
04/11/2014 09:09 PMPosted by cypherhalo
04/11/2014 01:24 PMPosted by Kayas

Explosive Trap is just another AOE. If you don't expect AOE from every class you need to plan better. When a Druid hits 4 mana expect Swipe. When a Paladin hits 4 mana, expect Consecrate. When a Mage hits 2 mana, 4, mana, 6 mana and 7 mana expect Arcane Blast, Thalnos+Arcane Blast, Blizzard, or Flamestrike. When a Hunter drops a trap with no minions in play, expect an Explosive trap.

Unlike other AOEs, with Explosive trap at least decide if you can make the best of the situation before it triggers. You can trigger it with what you have and play other minions after. You can buff them with Argus to let them survive. Or you can wait until you draw Flare if you're playing in a mirror match. You could play Commanding Shout and save all of your minions.

Just because Explosive Trap is a Secret and you're getting burned by it doesn't mean there's not answers. Deal with it like any AOE out there. It's the only one Hunters have.


Oh no, I won't hear this nonsense. Hunters have plenty of removal with multi-shot, arcane shot, UTH. I've played plenty of games where Hunters are able to clear the board so I'm sick and tired of hearing this nonsense that they "don't have AOE" especially when the UTH combo is ridiculously broken. Their isn't really a good time to trigger Explosive Trap. At best, you could maybe wait a turn, a game against a Hunter is a race against time (thanks to that hero power) so you can't just sit around waiting for a nice time to trigger Explosive Trap.


First of all, when it comes to removal, nobody plays Multi-shot and VERY rarely do you ever see Arcane Shot because they are not effective for their cost.

As for Explosive trap; it's only effective multiple low health minions, requires you to attack their face to be triggered, can be countered with things like flare and counterspell, and can be triggered before you summon new minions which makes it much less effective at it's job which is board clearance. From what I can gather from your complaints I am guessing that you play a low health rush deck, perhaps a murlock deck. There are plenty of tricks you can use to counter hunter board clearance. Perhaps a trip to the warlock forums for some tips/pointers will help. I am sure there are some great posts there on maintaining board control when faced with AoE there.

When it comes to Unleash the Hounds, there are dozens of posts explaining in great detail why you're incorrect. They are very informative and enlightening.

Lastly, when it comes to the hero power, that is also balanced. We, in exchange for being able to do two damage to your hero for two mana, have 0 flexibility with it. We are unable to use it for board clearance unlike, for instance, it's mage counterpart. This is of course not even mentioning the fact that we have no healing or armor creating class cards/abilities like other classes; Druids obviously have multiple ways of gaining armor and healing themselves, Mages have Ice Barrier to gain 8 armor when attacked, Paladins have spells cards that heal them as well as Truesilver Champion which allows them to attack while healing, Priests have their hero ability and a couple spell cards, the list goes on and on. I believe rogues are the only ones who are currently in the same boat, but they have twice the removal we have. Now, this is important when looking at how this ability is balance because gaining health or armor slows the pace of the game significantly. This is significant because with the wide array of healing and armor creating abilities available to nearly all classes, the actual effectiveness of Steady Shot is nil. This is one reason why good Druids, Paladins, and Warriors are trouble for us hunters.

I hope that my in depth analysis has helped illuminate and help you understand better why we are in fact balanced.

All the Best,
Speedwell
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]