Innervate Change suggestion

Posts: 14
I just posted this in response to another post, but I figured I would re-post it as a new thread where it has more visibility.

What about changing innervate to:

Innervate
Cost: 0
Text: Refill two spent mana crystals.

That would make innervate extend the utility of a mana pool without allowing the use of cards that shouldn't be playable for another 2 - 4 turns. It would also bring the card more in line with the functionality of it's counterpart in WOW. Innervate in WOW is not about INCREASING the size of a mana pool, it's about restoring used mana. (Actually the class that has the ability to increase mana pool size in WOW is the mage - via arcane intellect.) That would still make it a good card for increasing tempo in the early game, while allowing late game combos that are otherwise not possible. For example a druid playing an innervate would still be able to play something like - Power of the Wild - Innervate - Mark of the Wild - giving them a 5/4 taunt on turn 2, which is still a very strong play. It would prevent some of the more stupidly powerful early game plays like though, like turn two - Coin - Innervate - Innervate - Ancient of War.
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Posts: 693
Coin + Innervate + Innervate is seriously very bad play and most classes should be able to remove the minion in 1-2 turns max (means it would only do damage once at best). You already get significant card advantage by that. My current deck actually kinda depends on innervating stuff early if possible, but I would never do this. Not even Innervate + Coin. Sure it can pay off if opponent has really bad luck, but that still doesn't change anything about that the player took major risk.
Edited by Engra on 4/10/2014 2:20 PM PDT
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Posts: 14
Alright, so maybe that's not a play you would make, but the point still stands. A change like that would make innervate a card designed to allow you greater play of cards in your hand appropriate for the turn, without letting you reach for cards that you would normally be unable to play at all.
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Posts: 693
Yeah, but as I stated above it's not really an issue. It's high risk / high reward type of play which grants opponent card advantage (unless he goes hurr durr). Also consider that we waste two cards slots for option of boosting a play once and that in late game Innervate is mostly dead card.
Only class I can imagine having problems with Innervate is Priest since Druid has many 4 atk minions, so Priest basically loses. But that's different story (and not really a fault of Innervate).
Edited by Engra on 4/10/2014 2:50 PM PDT
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Posts: 20
The problem is that if you do not draw into any of your removals then the card feels extremely unfair because your opponent pulls ahead so fast. The card is too hot or cold so I believe it needs to be balanced a little.
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Posts: 3,338
04/10/2014 02:29 PMPosted by GZero
A change like that would make innervate a card designed to allow you greater play of cards in your hand appropriate for the turn


No.

A change like that would make Innervate a dead card. No Druid would use it.

There is no issue with Innervate at all, do you even play Druid at all?
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Posts: 635
04/11/2014 04:03 AMPosted by Pokey
A change like that would make Innervate a dead card. No Druid would use it.

There is no issue with Innervate at all, do you even play Druid at all?
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Posts: 155
Innervate is fine as is.

It is good utility but most classes have ways to deal with it.

Using double innervate + yeti or whatever else also puts druids at a severe disadvantage due to the fact that you are in top-deck mode for 3-4 turns after.
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Posts: 1,459
I just posted this in response to another post, but I figured I would re-post it as a new thread where it has more visibility.

What about changing innervate to:

Innervate
Cost: 0
Text: Refill two spent mana crystals.

That would make innervate extend the utility of a mana pool without allowing the use of cards that shouldn't be playable for another 2 - 4 turns. .


I supposed you didn't actually LOOK at the wild growth, whats the difference? I also LOVE how you people just make these grand "suggestions" and don't take into account the impact it will have on ALL decks not just druid.. its just awesome.

Maybe you can play the game for longer then 5 minutes BEFORE you start changing it.
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Posts: 14
04/11/2014 04:03 AMPosted by Pokey
04/10/2014 02:29 PMPosted by GZero
A change like that would make innervate a card designed to allow you greater play of cards in your hand appropriate for the turn


No.

A change like that would make Innervate a dead card. No Druid would use it.

There is no issue with Innervate at all, do you even play Druid at all?


[quote]

I supposed you didn't actually LOOK at the wild growth, whats the difference? I also LOVE how you people just make these grand "suggestions" and don't take into account the impact it will have on ALL decks not just druid.. its just awesome.

Maybe you can play the game for longer then 5 minutes BEFORE you start changing it.


Feeling a little defensive, are we? For your information, yes I've played druid quite a bit, and yes I've been playing hearthstone for some time now. I don't think the above suggestion is unreasonable. I just think the above suggestion would be better balanced. Think about it this way: the fact that the player that goes second is given the coin to mitigate his disadvantage is an acknowledgement of the fact that jumping the mana pool forward a turn can be a very powerful boost. Druids have 2 coins that can jump their mana pool 2 - 4 turns up, or be used to extend their mana pool beyond ten in later play. That's a very powerful thing, and also presents a potential difficulty in balancing each new card. It would still retain a lot of it's utility, just not the ability to make bigger card plays too early.
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Posts: 1,547
its a very very funny moment when i play freezing trap and the opponet plays his 2 innervates for his 4/4 cat charger and it now costed him 2 cards his turn and it now cant be played till turn 7
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Posts: 623
04/11/2014 10:20 PMPosted by GZero
I don't think the above suggestion is unreasonable. I just think the above suggestion would be better balanced. Think about it this way: the fact that the player that goes second is given the coin to mitigate his disadvantage is an acknowledgement of the fact that jumping the mana pool forward a turn can be a very powerful boost. Druids have 2 coins that can jump their mana pool 2 - 4 turns up, or be used to extend their mana pool beyond ten in later play. That's a very powerful thing, and also presents a potential difficulty in balancing each new card. It would still retain a lot of it's utility, just not the ability to make bigger card plays too early.


It is unreasonable though because nobody would use Innervate any longer if that change was made. What's important to realize is that there is a significant penalty for using two deck slots and two card draws on a spell that does not buff your minions, heal you, or damage your enemy. The advantage that Innervate can give you in a match is currently worth that penalty, take away half of its power and it's a complete liability.
Edited by TheShovel on 4/12/2014 9:00 AM PDT
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Posts: 3,443
04/11/2014 06:55 AMPosted by K2Wolf
Innervate is fine as is.

It is good utility but most classes have ways to deal with it.

Using double innervate + yeti or whatever else also puts druids at a severe disadvantage due to the fact that you are in top-deck mode for 3-4 turns after.


Exactly.

For every game where I get an early Yeti or some other power minion early due to Innervate(s), there is another game where the opponent has an answer, or another game where I draw Innervate late and it's literally a dead card.

It's a fine card as is.
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Posts: 135
04/10/2014 04:57 PMPosted by Shug
The problem is that if you do not draw into any of your removals then the card feels extremely unfair because your opponent pulls ahead so fast. The card is too hot or cold so I believe it needs to be balanced a little.
How is this any different from Zoo?

Zoo requires very specific responses from each deck very early on, or it will rapidly snowball.

For Druids, that very response usually involves Innervate.
Edited by LunaSaint on 4/13/2014 5:36 PM PDT
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Posts: 5,776
04/11/2014 04:03 AMPosted by Pokey
04/10/2014 02:29 PMPosted by GZero
A change like that would make innervate a card designed to allow you greater play of cards in your hand appropriate for the turn


No.

A change like that would make Innervate a dead card. No Druid would use it.

There is no issue with Innervate at all, do you even play Druid at all?


^ This Innervate is already a gamble. Tempo/board control risk of a dead hand.
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