Stop asking for nerfs

Posts: 1,920
Blizzard isn't changing anything. They have stated this several times. In CCG's you don't change cards after they have been released, the beta period being the exception.

The reason is very simple, blizzard wants people to spend money on the game, and nobody is going to spend a penny if cards are changing all the time.

If you spend money to buy something you don't want it changed after you have purchased it.

Anyway my point of this thread is that all CCG's balance the game not through nerfs/buffs of existing cards, the balance comes from the introduction of new cards.

Don't waste your time requesting nerfs, it simply isn't happening. Spend your time instead learning how to beat the decks/classes causing you problems.
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Posts: 160
Just because "Blizzard isn't going to change anything" doesn't mean the Hunter class is not broken. It IS broken and too OP.

Your point may be the actual case, but it wouldn't hurt Blizzard to re-examine a few Hunter cards.
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Posts: 1,128
04/12/2014 03:55 PMPosted by Cairo
Just because "Blizzard isn't going to change anything" doesn't mean the Hunter class is not broken. It IS broken and too OP.

Your point may be the actual case, but it wouldn't hurt Blizzard to re-examine a few Hunter cards.


No, your lack of fundamental understanding on how TCGs work is the reason the Hunter class isn't broken and isn't OP at all. At least not the kind of OP you're referring to. But hey, good luck continuing to treat Hearthstone like you treated WoW, I guarantee you that you'll remain to be a bad player as long as you don't realize that Hearthstone is a completely different game from a completely different genre which requires a completely different mindset. Until you realize that and start to gain a true understanding on what TCGs are about than you won't get anywhere and your opinions will remain to be shallow and misguided. But hey, continue being bad, I'm not gonna stop you, because guess what? I don't give a damn.
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Posts: 707
04/12/2014 07:10 PMPosted by OwlRaider
04/12/2014 03:55 PMPosted by Cairo
Just because "Blizzard isn't going to change anything" doesn't mean the Hunter class is not broken. It IS broken and too OP.

Your point may be the actual case, but it wouldn't hurt Blizzard to re-examine a few Hunter cards.


No, your lack of fundamental understanding on how TCGs work is the reason the Hunter class isn't broken and isn't OP at all.


When you get 20 mana out of 6 mana combo of cards that is broken in the term of it's own game, no other class has this much efficacy.

Unleash the Hounds Cost- (2), Value-(min=6, max=20 ), Board- (3=min,10=max) 1/1's w/charge

That in itself without counting card draw is op, they way they score points in this game is 2 mana for a 1/1 with an ability (novice engineer, blood mage thalnos etc.)

So going by that standard the value is way out of hand if you account card draw your looking at 30 mana value. that efficacy is beyond me.

Also blizzard has stated they never intended Unleash the Hounds to be used as a "draw engine", only as their "AoE".
Edited by Malice on 4/12/2014 7:40 PM PDT
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Posts: 800
04/12/2014 07:35 PMPosted by Malice
Unleash the Hounds Cost- (2), Value-(min=6, max=20 ), Board- (3=min,10=max) 1/1's w/charge


minimum is 0

and cant everyone do a combo that does the same amount of damage or more

but yet it only clears your board if you spawn 1 health minions and then what they have nothing on table cause they killed your minions, ok so they played buzzard and drew 6 cards and one or more of your guys are still alive and your opponent has his 2/1 buzzard out wait you impliedhe wiped your board so he used his two cards to reduce health that costed him 4 mana and 6 cards to draw 6 cards so its about even where is this deluge of cards coming from he spent 6 to clear your board and get 6 cards so he used wolf to 5 mana for 4 doggies that do 2 damage and he went for your minions so 4 dead and you got 2 left so he didnt use his hm i'm just confused wheres this massive card draw
Edited by Piviot on 4/12/2014 7:49 PM PDT
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Posts: 237
There was a lot of bad math there. First, you can't get more than 7, and frankly wouldn't even want all 7. Second, a 1/1 with charge exists in the game, at 1 cost, so each hound has a base value of 1 mana.

No, the problem is that its cheap cost combined with the cheap cost of the cards it synergies so well with means it's an efficient COMBO that your opponent can't react to.

Unless of course, you have HUNTER secrets ready...
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Posts: 237
04/12/2014 07:41 PMPosted by Piviot
04/12/2014 07:35 PMPosted by Malice
Unleash the Hounds Cost- (2), Value-(min=6, max=20 ), Board- (3=min,10=max) 1/1's w/charge


minimum is 0

and cant everyone do a combo that does the same amount of damage or more

but yet it only clears your board if you spawn 1 health minions and then what they have nothing on table cause they killed your minions, ok so they played buzzard and drew 6 cards and one or more of your guys are still alive and your opponent has his 2/1 buzzard out wait you impliedhe wiped your board so he used his two cards to reduce health that costed him 4 mana and 6 cards to draw 6 cards so its about even where is this deluge of cards coming from he spent 6 to clear your board and get 6 cards so he used wolf to 5 mana for 4 doggies that do 2 damage and he went for your minions so 4 dead and you got 2 left so he didnt use his hm i'm just confused wheres this massive card draw


The problem is its the only draw engine that can be played by turn 3 that doesn't require any board presence to begin with and usually ends in neutral field position. Any other draw engine either takes more than a turn to set up, or can't be dropped until later, or causes you to sacrifice more board position to do it.
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Posts: 267
04/12/2014 03:30 PMPosted by MadJohnny
In CCG's you don't change cards after they have been released

If you think a little you'll realize that happens because they CAN'T change the cards people already have (they ban them instead which is a lot worse). In HS that is not a problem. I don't know if you ever player another card game, but the appeal of games like these is that there is constant change, so that argument is void too.

Having said that I don't think they're nerfing UTH so soon because they'd have to buff other Hunter cards and they're focused on releasing new content first before any big class overhauls. And since Hunter isn't getting a lot of tournament success I guess they'll just leave it be for a good while.
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Posts: 800
04/12/2014 07:58 PMPosted by Arok
The problem is its the only draw engine that can be played by turn 3


so by turn 3 your flood the board with low health minions uhm buzzard and uth requires 4 mana so turn 3 if they had the coin and if they had the coin and you had more then 2 on the field your was a rushing lock and you guys can go to

and the only one that can be out by turn 3? lol i've faced 2 clerics turn 1 now thats some drawing power right there
Edited by Piviot on 4/12/2014 10:41 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,920
04/12/2014 08:02 PMPosted by Pugnator
04/12/2014 03:30 PMPosted by MadJohnny
In CCG's you don't change cards after they have been released

If you think a little you'll realize that happens because they CAN'T change the cards people already have (they ban them instead which is a lot worse). In HS that is not a problem. I don't know if you ever player another card game, but the appeal of games like these is that there is constant change, so that argument is void too.


I have spent years playing magic and while they do ban some cards it is very very few.
For example right now there are zero banned cards in standard format.

As for your other comment about the appeal of constant change, yes that is correct, people want new cards added to the game every couple months. Nobody wants existing cards changed.
Edited by MadJohnny on 4/12/2014 8:18 PM PDT
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Posts: 237
04/12/2014 08:05 PMPosted by Piviot
04/12/2014 07:58 PMPosted by Arok
The problem is its the only draw engine that can be played by turn 3


so by turn 3 your flood the board with low health minions uhm buzzard and uth requires 4 mana so turn 3 if they had the coin and if they had the coin and you had more then 2 on the field your was a rushing lock and you guys can go to hell

and the only one that can be out by turn 3? lol i've faced 2 clerics turn 1 now thats some drawing power right there


Uh, no it's not? He has to heal something. If i don't have something to kill a cleric, I have no problem just waiting. EDIT: My wording was fine, way to chop off the important part of my sentence. Cleric requires a minimum 3 mana investment and a specific board condition just to draw a single card. UtH requires your opponent to have minions. Most of my opponents play minions. If not, I'm happy to land free damage.

And good job talking about being an idiot having 2 guys out by turn 3, and in the same response talking about dropping 2 clerics turn 1. Way to support your argument there.

Second Edit: I just really need to say that holy cow you must have stopped reading my post after you got to the 3. I have never seen someone miss the point of a post so badly.
Edited by Arok on 4/12/2014 8:58 PM PDT
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Posts: 800
so cleric needs a minimum 3 mana investment? thats seriously your defense?

buzzard and uth requires 4 mana investment and a specific board too

and i repeat if you have more than 2 minions out AT TURN 3(and your opponent has the coin) YOU PLAYING A MURLOC LOCK and can go to

you prolly play that deck
Edited by Piviot on 4/12/2014 10:40 PM PDT
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Posts: 267
04/12/2014 08:18 PMPosted by MadJohnny
I have spent years playing magic and while they do ban some cards it is very very few.

That's because they don't have to, and banning cards is way worse than nerfing them. And game balance is more important than making only a few people who abuse x card happy. Not that this applies to hunters, I'm just speaking hypothetically here.
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Posts: 1,920
04/12/2014 11:15 PMPosted by Pugnator
04/12/2014 08:18 PMPosted by MadJohnny
I have spent years playing magic and while they do ban some cards it is very very few.

That's because they don't have to, and banning cards is way worse than nerfing them. And game balance is more important than making only a few people who abuse x card happy. Not that this applies to hunters, I'm just speaking hypothetically here.


What happens in magic is sometimes they introduce a new card and find out some card made like 6 years ago has a game breaking combo or synergy with the newer card. They might ban the old card.

This can happen in legacy format sometimes. There is no situation in magic where someone buys a recently released card and 2 weeks later the card is banned.

MTGO being digital could make tweaks here and there, but they don't. As mentioned if you purchase a card you don't want fear of it being nerfed a week later.
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Posts: 968
04/12/2014 07:58 PMPosted by Arok
The problem is its the only draw engine that can be played by turn 3 that doesn't require any board presence to begin with and usually ends in neutral field position. Any other draw engine either takes more than a turn to set up, or can't be dropped until later, or causes you to sacrifice more board position to do it.


So let's assume you have both buzzard and unleash in your starting hand along with the coin. Unless you are playing murlocks or zoo, most classes don't use 1 drops. So by turn 3 your opponent has 2 minions on the board. Let's say a typical 3/2 and a harvest golem. You buzzard + unleash, draw 2 cards and kill the 3/2, then your buzzard dies for free. Overall, you gained 0 cards, used the coin and did not gain any board position and your opponent lost their 3/2.

This is all assuming perfect circumstances which are almost never going to happen. If they have a 2/3 instead of a 3/2, that goes out the window. If they only have 1 minion, that goes out the window. Ironically, you can achieve the same net outcome by using a coin hammer of wrath on the 3/2 as that would also result in 0 cards gained/lost and the opponent being left with their 3 drop on the board.
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Posts: 267
04/13/2014 12:08 AMPosted by MadJohnny
There is no situation in magic where someone buys a recently released card and 2 weeks later the card is banned.

Yes there is, wtf are you talking about? I mean, sure, it might not be 2 weeks, but sometimes they do ban cards just because they're too good (ex: Jayce the Mind Sculptor). It just doesn't happen very often because they have over a decade of experience in card games, unlike Blizzard. And I'm not sure you realize people get to disenchant nerfed cards for the full dust price. But the biggest issue here is game balance. Game balance should be above all of that because a game being blatantly unbalanced completely kills it. It's really naive to think no cards will be changed now, especially after new cards come out and we have a new metagame.

Also, let me leave some statistics here to help you decide if hunter is OP or not:

Hunter has the 3rd highest w/l in constructed. Above him are Warlock and Druid.
Hunter has the 6th highest w/l in arena.
Hunter has a "negative" w/l vs 3/8 other classes. Druid has 2/8 and Warlock 1/8 (yes, on average Warlock only loses to one class and wins vs anything else).

Anyone who wants to make generalizations about Hunter winning vs everything and having no counters should maybe look at other classes first.
Source: http://hearthstats.net/reports/mar/index.html
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