Nerf Auctioneer :P

Posts: 268
Now that all that wanted the hunter to get UtH nerfed got as they wanted, i assume they will come here and shout to nerf the auctioneer.

So i wanna be the first ...

restrict auctioneer to only be able to draw ONE card each round ...

hunters got their drawpower nerfed .. guess rouges gonna be next ...

so be prepared for the oncoming nerf-threads here on rouge-forum..

to be honest i think Auctioneer is good as it is .. just as UtH was.
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Posts: 39
05/07/2014 08:41 AMPosted by Luffe
Now that all that wanted the hunter to get UtH nerfed got as they wanted, i assume they will come here and shout to nerf the auctioneer.

So i wanna be the first ...

restrict auctioneer to only be able to draw ONE card each round ...

hunters got their drawpower nerfed .. guess rouges gonna be next ...

so be prepared for the oncoming nerf-threads here on rouge-forum..

to be honest i think Auctioneer is good as it is .. just as UtH was.


Um.. No.

If there was a limit, it should be 3. And hunters didnt get the draw power nerfed, buzzard/UTH is still the same but at 1 more mana
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Posts: 678
05/07/2014 08:41 AMPosted by Luffe
Now that all that wanted the hunter to get UtH nerfed got as they wanted, i assume they will come here and shout to nerf the auctioneer.

So i wanna be the first ...

restrict auctioneer to only be able to draw ONE card each round ...

hunters got their drawpower nerfed .. guess rouges gonna be next ...

so be prepared for the oncoming nerf-threads here on rouge-forum..

to be honest i think Auctioneer is good as it is .. just as UtH was.


Auctioneer is only a 4/4 minion that lets you draw 1 card per spell used while it is active. UtH was X number of 1/1 Charge dogs + X Number of cards drawn with the right combo not to mention it was only a 2 card combo. To draw with auctioneer you need to use a card so its a 1 to 1 draw. Dropping 2 cards should not yield 3+ card draw. And IMO it wasn't nerfed because of the card draw potential it was nerfed because of it synergy with low cost buff.minions.
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Posts: 17
In any case this card need to be nerfed fast. Rogue vomit half the deck in 1 turn no fun, too many sinergy with all their low cost damage/removal.
In the end, we have a deck that it's like mage pre freeze/pyro nerf. No matter what both play, if rogue got the combo pieces it's a win, lose otherwise.
Really no interaction, no puzzle to solve, just hope they draw bad and otherwise die.

No fun.
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Posts: 234
hunter QQ
lol
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Posts: 766
05/08/2014 05:53 AMPosted by Leru
In any case this card need to be nerfed fast. Rogue vomit half the deck in 1 turn no fun, too many sinergy with all their low cost damage/removal.
In the end, we have a deck that it's like mage pre freeze/pyro nerf. No matter what both play, if rogue got the combo pieces it's a win, lose otherwise.
Really no interaction, no puzzle to solve, just hope they draw bad and otherwise die.

No fun.


Unlike freeze, Rogue has no mechanic to stop your board from developing, other than by using the resources that fuel Auctioneer. L2p against Miracle, because while strong, it is also fragile. No heals, no taunts and a hero power that forces using face to equalize. You have 5+ turns to plan for Auctioneer. You have usually 2-3 turns from there to plan for Leeroy. It may be a Miracle, but its hardly an unexpected series of consequences...
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Posts: 22
05/08/2014 03:28 PMPosted by WynPharaoh
Unlike freeze, Rogue has no mechanic to stop your board from developing, other than by using the resources that fuel Auctioneer. L2p against Miracle, because while strong, it is also fragile. No heals, no taunts and a hero power that forces using face to equalize. You have 5+ turns to plan for Auctioneer. You have usually 2-3 turns from there to plan for Leeroy. It may be a Miracle, but its hardly an unexpected series of consequences...


While this is true, I still feel the combo is too strong at the time considering rogue synergies. And planning for Auctioneer doesn't help because of Conceal, and not everybody has an answer to stealth.

Now I'm fairly new at the game (although I've basically played card games all my life), but just today I played a game against a rogue where the game basically stopped the moment he put the Auctioneer down.

On the turn he put it down, he was able to draw 5 cards. I couldn't kill it on my following turn because of Conceal, and he ended up drawing another 7 on his second turn with Auctioneer... he gained a 12 cards advantage in 2 turns and killed me immediately.

I don't even think Hunter can draw that much in such a short amount of time while being that effective. Technically double buzzard + double timber wolf + UTH could yield more cards in one turn provided the opponent has more than 4 minions but if he actually has more than 2 minions then the excess cards will be burned, which makes it pointless. You could do it in 2 turn with buzzard + timber wolf + UTH + another beast on turn one and then, with any luck, do it again the following turn but you could only draw 12 cards this way if your opponent has at least 3-4 minions each turn which is unlikely (especially since UTH will be used to kill them).

The synergy between Rogue and Auctioneer is just too much IMO. Sure it's a coin toss for the Rogue, but it doesn't make for a fun game.
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Posts: 157
I'm pretty sure that with Hunters out of the way, we'll be seeing a bunch of shaman and handlocks making a reappearance on the ladder. That'll probably cut down on the number of Miracle rogues out there anyway.
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Posts: 766
05/08/2014 06:00 PMPosted by Osydius
Now I'm fairly new at the game


I can appreciate, as a new player, just how strange this must seem...something this powerful not actually being considered OP since like day ONE. There is a l2p element involved, a lot of things that can be done to force Miracle into a position where the 2 big turns you describe cannot happen. You must be aggressive against Miracle and draw out backstabs and eviscerates so that even if Auctioneer + Conceal happens, they don't have a big play that turn. You KNOW that the Rogue has no healing mechanics and doesn't play taunts. You KNOW that he wants an Auctioneer turn 5-6, and that if you have ANY AoE mechanics, they have to be applied around that point, and Miracle doesn't have ANYTHING else you'd likely be saving AoE for. Half the classes in the game can AoE Auctioneer right off the board (technically Hunter uses Deadly Shot, it hits concealed minions just fine). Druid and Handlock will always be able to just Taunt wall, effectively removing the Leeroy kill condition from the game, negating most of what Auctioneer is really there for. Priest, Warrior, Pally and Druid all have heal mechanics that can keep a Hero out of kill range as well.

Sometimes, Miracle will win, no matter what you have tried. Sometimes, it will beat itself, no matter how hard the Rogue player tries. In between, there is the gulf that separates skillful play for both parties, giving roughly equal chances. This is why the deck was allowed out of beta, as is. It is a good deck. It's cheaper to build than Control Druid or Warrior. Its about on dust par with Handlock. Its fun to play. Its not OP.
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Posts: 268
As i said earlier .....
Restrict To 1-3 card / turn

All problem solved
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Posts: 24
@luffe -- that's not ALL problem solved, that's just YOUR problem solved.
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Posts: 933
Make Auctioneer lose stealth if his ability procs. That's the only nerf that's needed because indeed, not everyone has an answer to a 4/4 stealthed minion. Beyond that, the ability is fine.
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Posts: 671
05/07/2014 08:41 AMPosted by Luffe
Now that all that wanted the hunter to get UtH nerfed got as they wanted, i assume they will come here and shout to nerf the auctioneer.

So i wanna be the first ...

restrict auctioneer to only be able to draw ONE card each round ...

hunters got their drawpower nerfed .. guess rouges gonna be next ...

so be prepared for the oncoming nerf-threads here on rouge-forum..

to be honest i think Auctioneer is good as it is .. just as UtH was.


Um.. No.

If there was a limit, it should be 3. And hunters didnt get the draw power nerfed, buzzard/UTH is still the same but at 1 more mana


its a surprisingly bad turn 5 play to do that so yes they're draw power did get a nerf and the only reason it was so good was because of the draw power its the same reason the ORIGONAL miracle rogue was broken you can hardly call it a miracle when they draw your entire deck its not fair to your opponent if they aren't playing a class that can kill stealth. Gadgetzan is the next card that is going to be looked at im sure of it.
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Posts: 1,236
Miracle rogues are way stronger than hunter decks. Something like 7 out of the top 10 decks were rogues at the end of the season. I think there were 3 hunters in the top 16.

I'm not saying anything needs nerfed, fyi. UTH did need nerfed though, and I play a hunter as my 2 deck.
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Posts: 229
here we go again! do you know how many times rogue recieve the nerf bat? every neutral minion who got nerf in the past was a big nerf to rogues. Novice Engineer, Argent Commander, Defender of Argus, Iron Dwarf, Tinkmaster, etc.. just kill the rogue class already. we already have the least build variety anyway
Edited by chipndip on 5/9/2014 6:45 AM PDT
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Posts: 766
05/09/2014 04:05 AMPosted by Mathaylla
not everyone has an answer to a 4/4 stealthed minion


This is functionally untrue. More than half of all the classes do have an answer to a stealthed 4/4 minion. Shaman, Mage, Hunter, Warlock and Pally can all easily clear a stealthed 4/4. The remaining classes can easily Taunt Wall or Heal enough to avoid the Miracle Rogue condition. The problem isn't Miracle, its a problem with people refusing to l2p.
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Posts: 268
05/09/2014 06:44 AMPosted by chipndip
here we go again! do you know how many times rogue recieve the nerf bat? every neutral minion who got nerf in the past was a big nerf to rogues. Novice Engineer, Argent Commander, Defender of Argus, Iron Dwarf, Tinkmaster, etc.. just kill the rogue class already. we already have the least build variety anyway


neutral card nerfs hits ALL classes that use the card

05/09/2014 11:22 AMPosted by WynPharaoh
05/09/2014 04:05 AMPosted by Mathaylla
not everyone has an answer to a 4/4 stealthed minion


This is functionally untrue. More than half of all the classes do have an answer to a stealthed 4/4 minion. Shaman, Mage, Hunter, Warlock and Pally can all easily clear a stealthed 4/4. The remaining classes can easily Taunt Wall or Heal enough to avoid the Miracle Rogue condition. The problem isn't Miracle, its a problem with people refusing to l2p.


Guess u are refering to following cards..

Shaman: Lightning Storm ........ need 2*spell-power minons on the field to "easy" kill it

Mage: Flamestrike .... 7mana cost (u are usually dead before round 7)

Warlock: Shadowflame .... u need a minion with 4 in attack on the field to make it work
or 2*Hellfire ... thats 8mana cost

Hunter: Deadly Shot .... Luck or he has to kill all rouges minions before using it

Pally: Equallity+Concecration .... 6mana cost

You should change the word easy ... to have a small chance

If a miracle rouge gets out Auctioneer + stealth it ... It's a win

PS the L2P argument is the same as for/against UtH .. and we all saw how that ended.
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Posts: 766
05/09/2014 06:44 AMPosted by chipndip
here we go again! do you know how many times rogue recieve the nerf bat? every neutral minion who got nerf in the past was a big nerf to rogues. Novice Engineer, Argent Commander, Defender of Argus, Iron Dwarf, Tinkmaster, etc.. just kill the rogue class already. we already have the least build variety anyway


neutral card nerfs hits ALL classes that use the card

<span class="truncated">...</span>

This is functionally untrue. More than half of all the classes do have an answer to a stealthed 4/4 minion. Shaman, Mage, Hunter, Warlock and Pally can all easily clear a stealthed 4/4. The remaining classes can easily Taunt Wall or Heal enough to avoid the Miracle Rogue condition. The problem isn't Miracle, its a problem with people refusing to l2p.


Guess u are refering to following cards..

Shaman: Lightning Storm ........ need 2*spell-power minons on the field to "easy" kill it

Mage: Flamestrike .... 7mana cost (u are usually dead before round 7)

Warlock: Shadowflame .... u need a minion with 4 in attack on the field to make it work
or 2*Hellfire ... thats 8mana cost

Hunter: Deadly Shot .... Luck or he has to kill all rouges minions before using it

Pally: Equallity+Concecration .... 6mana cost

You should change the word easy ... to have a small chance

If a miracle rouge gets out Auctioneer + stealth it ... It's a win

PS the L2P argument is the same as for/against UtH .. and we all saw how that ended.


1. Shaman has 4-6 turns to roll spell power totem/drop spell power minion. Problem solved.

2. Mage is NOT dead by turn 7. Mage removal means none of Miracle's minions ever hit face. His minions, especially Water Elemental are really annoying. Never was a problem.

3. Warlock should never have a problem burping out a quality minion for Shadowflame. Not a problem.

4. Hunter can cycle deck looking for any card he wants and will save all his other removal for the few Rogue minions. Not a problem.

5. Pally. You forget Pyro+ Equality is 4 mana. Without coin, turn 6 conceal only happens with Prep, so we all have coin flips to worry about. Not really a problem.

Nobody else has any worse chances to get the right hand than Miracle does BEFORE Auctioneer happens. Everyone has 5+ turns to prepare for the 'big' play. Miracle has to coin flip to even get Auctioneer + Conceal, either getting lucky, or giving the opponent yet more time to deal with an otherwise empty board. UTH was nerfed because it caused players to feel penalized for playing minions. Carefully read the patch notes. Miracle does nothing to discourage an opponent from doing anything they can to win a game. Any Miracle game that is won by turn 7 likely means opponent really misplayed and did NOTHING for the previous 6 turns. That's just a bad idea against any deck, much less Miracle Rogue.
Edited by WynPharaoh on 5/9/2014 7:02 PM PDT
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Posts: 179
Possible nerf = +1 mana cost.

All others are just delusions.
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Posts: 22
05/08/2014 10:46 PMPosted by WynPharaoh
You KNOW that he wants an Auctioneer turn 5-6, and that if you have ANY AoE mechanics, they have to be applied around that point, and Miracle doesn't have ANYTHING else you'd likely be saving AoE for. Half the classes in the game can AoE Auctioneer right off the board (technically Hunter uses Deadly Shot, it hits concealed minions just fine). Druid and Handlock will always be able to just Taunt wall, effectively removing the Leeroy kill condition from the game, negating most of what Auctioneer is really there for.


Sorry but no. Just had a game which ended 5 min ago where the rogue put down his Auctioneer on round 5, followed by preparation, eviscerate, backstab, preparation, shiv, thus allowing him to clear my side of the board and draw 6 cards.

I had Swipe, two Druids of the claw and one keeper of the grove in my hand, so I immediately swiped his Auctioneer to prevent him from drawing further, only leaving me with 2 mana to use my hero ability.

Next turn he put down 2 SI:7 Agents (doing me 4 damages), and I put down a wall with Druid of the Claw. But guess what he did ? Sap of course ! Wall goes back into my hand, and he then uses Deadly poison and I take 9 more damages.

Following turn I put down my wall again and hero ability and he Gets another Auctioneer out... he got rid of my wall again and from there it was over.

He won on round 9 despite me putting down 3 (4/6) walls, with a 10 cards advantage...

So no, at least as a druid, we can't hide behind a wall or use AOE to get out of it. The synergies between 0 mana rogues spells and Auctioneer is too much.
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