Help My Paladin Control Beat Miracle Rogue

Posts: 16
Hey guys.

So, I've been running what in my opinion is a very good Paladin control deck. This is the first season I've really been set on reaching Legendary, and sentimental me really wants to do it with the deck that got me this far.

HOWEVER...

I've run into a serious problem at rank 5. I can't for the life of me beat Miracle Rogue. Up until this point I haven't played them much, but now it seems like they are everywhere. I can handle ramp druid, Zoo, Handlock, and the one or two hunters still floating around, but Miracle Rogue wrecks me.

I need your guys' help. How do I play against this class with the deck I have assembled? What cards should I swap into my deck?

Here's the decklist:

2x Equality
1x Holy Light
1x Acidic Swamp Ooze
1x Doomsayer
1x Ironbeak Owl
2x Wild Pyromancer
2x Aldor Peacekeeper
1x BGH
2x Earthen Ring Farseer
2x Truesilver Champion
2x Consecration
1x Hammer of Wrath
2x Stampeding Kodo
1x Avenging Wrath
1x Cairne Bloodhoof
1x Sunwalker
1x Baron Geddon
1x Guardian of Kings
1x Lay on Hands
1x Ragnaros
1x Tirion
1x Alexstrasza
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Posts: 93
It is a rough matchup. Most important thing is to be able to deal with their auctioneers. If you can do that before they gain too much card draw then they will run dry before finishing you off.

Right there are a couple of options. And I can also see some cards that straight up won't work.

First the stuff that doesn't work:

Alexstrasza: You are always dead at <18 life against a miracle rogue. 15 life basic won't change anything.

Stampeding Kodo x2: Killing their loothoarders faster is not going to win you the game. You won't be able to target the auctioneers reliably with attack reduction.

Hammer of Wrath: This is a game of tempo boy. If tempo could be defined as a value then 3 damage for 4 mana would be like negative infinity. Yes you get to draw a card, and you can add it to the remaining 6 in your hand by the time they kill you.

Stuff to consider:

Harrison Jones: Rogues uses weapons like the rest of us summons minions. Disarming them takes away some their tempo while keeping your hand supplied. And his stats are even on point. Sure only 3 of the classes run weapons but most of the remaining 6 run faceless that they like to use on Tirion.

Tinkmaster Overspark: Remember this guy? Well if you play paladin control you should. Suddenly the added randomness of his effect becomes his biggest asset. If rogues have their way the a stealthed auctioneer will be alone on the field and this is suddenly one of the best ways to disarm it. 50% chance it gains 1/1 is more than enough to make up for the guarantied silence.

Senjin Shieldmasta: Taz'Dingo! By adding healing you got the right idea. The best healing through is the one you won't need. Shieldmasta is great because he is only 4 mana so he hits a nice balance between having enough health to matter and also not being too expensive to be sapped.
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Posts: 16
Hey, thanks for the reply.

Firstly, a lot of your suggestions make sense. Swapping a Hammer of Wrath for a Harrison Jones seems like an incredibly logical move, and I am definitely going to playtest using a Taz-Dingo over Kodo (maybe finally settling on 1 of both).

However, my goal is to be somewhat competitive against Miracle WHILE still being able to beat other decks. So, changes like taking out Alex and adding in Tinkmaster seems like it would hurt the deck in basically every other match up.
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Posts: 10
Most Paladin control decks are too slow to kill them before they draw a burst combo. It seems like more midrange with argus is better if you get lucky and can play around blade flurry but it's still pretty bad. There's also the possibility of molten giant but you would still need early pressure to make them waste spells including sap. But even then that loses out to the Malygos build if they had been saving sinister strike and prep (which will happen if there is no board presence on your end). The Malygos build can be easier to beat through healing but if they actually faced Paladin often enough they would figure out that shadowstep earthen ring farseer would give enough healing to hang on vs the weak board most control Paladin present.

Dropping a lot of single taunts like Shieldmasta and Sunwalker can work sometimes but it usually just slows them down while they whittle down your health with cold blood and weapons. What really sucks is some minion that would be good vs them like taunted up Twilight Drake aren't good to play in general because of all the Shaman and Handlock.

Anyway I think it just comes down to huge card advantage for Rogue. If Paladin could draw more reliably they would be better off because they could then run one of those stupid combos and actually draw into it before dying.
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Posts: 691
I had the same problem at first, but since I dont see a lot of facehunters anymore I put my holy light and guardian of kings out. Also removed sunwalker (sab sucks) Put twilight drake in and sunfury protectors, I already had defenders in my deck. This gives me plenty of taunts that is impossible to sab all of them.

currently 8 w 1 l vs miracle rogue rank 4/5.
performing a bit worse vs zoo though
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Posts: 65
I currently took out Lay on Hands from my Control Pally.

I find that if I NEED to play it then I've lost already =/ - it is only good when I am winning, or when I have nothing else to do. And in either scenario there are better cards.

So I would recommend you swap that out for something. Unless I am missing something that you or anyone else would like to point out (I am still only around 75% confident in my decision to take it out lol =p).
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Posts: 98
It is a ridiculous match up. Unless they don't get into their card draw cycles or unless like leeroy comes up last you just won't win. The only times I've won I managed to pressure them enough early game they had to use up key cards and usually fatigued them. After all, being at full or close to full HP won't really help you.

Just expect to lose this match up a lot. Miracle rogue is a big part of why paladin is so terrible right now.
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Posts: 691
05/15/2014 04:17 AMPosted by Bekk
Just expect to lose this match up a lot. Miracle rogue is a big part of why paladin is so terrible right now.


Read my post please, currently 12 wins and 2 losses vs miracle rogue. It is certainly not impossible to win vs rogue, actually is is quite easy to do so. the problem is that im losing vs different decks, because even with the 10 win advantage im still on rank 5.

05/15/2014 03:03 AMPosted by BrahimBug
Unless I am missing something that you or anyone else would like to point out (I am still only around 75% confident in my decision to take it out lol =p)

Paladins don't have good card draw options so 1 LoH is pretty much a must for any control/midrange paladin deck. Aggro users can use divine favour instead
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Posts: 91
05/14/2014 04:35 AMPosted by Laptopman
I had the same problem at first, but since I dont see a lot of facehunters anymore I put my holy light and guardian of kings out. Also removed sunwalker (sab sucks) Put twilight drake in and sunfury protectors, I already had defenders in my deck. This gives me plenty of taunts that is impossible to sab all of them.

currently 8 w 1 l vs miracle rogue rank 4/5.
performing a bit worse vs zoo though


But how are you doing vs Druid? To me the biggest weakness of the pally deck at this point is that the classes we have the most trouble with are the ones whose hero powers or class cards directly counter our own (druid/rogue/mage hero powers, warrior/hunter class cards). Considering these are the most popular classes in the meta (sans hunter now), I have a really hard time tailoring my deck to adjust to the subtle shifts in the meta as I rise in rank.

Miracle rogue and token/ramp druid are by far my most frustrating match ups...and they comprise about 75% of my matches at this point.
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Posts: 297
Just save equality and consecration for the Gadgetzan, you cripple Miracle rouge if you remove it.
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Posts: 98
Read my post please, currently 12 wins and 2 losses vs miracle rogue. It is certainly not impossible to win vs rogue, actually is is quite easy to do so. the problem is that im losing vs different decks, because even with the 10 win advantage im still on rank 5.


It just sounds like you built your deck to be very good against miracle (those two additions are huge against miracle). But if you're stuck at rank 5 it means you've weakened your deck too much against other match ups to be competitive with these additions. Indeed a paladin deck *can* crush a miracle rogue just fine... if you're willing to tank versus all the other match ups.
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Posts: 219
I don't have any Legendaries and I managed to beat one due to him being a terrible player because he lolpasted a copy of someone's deck. But I have never come across a Miracle Rogue until that game which happened today. So now if I see Gadget. I'm going to annihilate him next turn by any means necessary.
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Posts: 13
a concealed auctioner is pretty damn hard to kill for some decks......
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Posts: 375
06/16/2014 12:36 AMPosted by LKwhite
a concealed auctioner is pretty damn hard to kill for some decks......


Agreed. That's why I run 2x Equality and 2x Consecration lol
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Posts: 242
Fun thing about paladin control is that you dont need win condition cards, all you have to do is remove their stuff every turn and summon a 1/1 dude as often as possible. Sooner or later the 1/1 dudes win you the game. I am using tirion in my control deck but could as well replace it for more control.

Keeping board clear, count the damage cards of the rogue and perhaps panda a guardian when needed wins the game against miraclerogues.
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Posts: 414
I think Lay on Hands is a good card, if used at the right time. Typically I will use it if I have one (or both) of my board clearing cards in hand (Equality/Consecration). This sets up a nice board clear, as the opponent will typically drop a bunch of minions after I play Lay on Hands.

It's also a life saver in late a game top-decking war.
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Posts: 1,953
remove the auctioners through cons/equality, keep his board clear and.... use noble sac when you think hes going to lolburst you down.
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Posts: 1,829
The Miracle Rogue matchup can actually be the easiest matchup for control Paladin if you build it right with Miracle Rogue in mind. By building it right I mean having multiple mid-sized taunts in order to maintain a wall even after both Saps have been used, which in turn forces the heavy removal which in turn reduces his damage output(Eviscerate on a minion means less face damage), less card drawing with Auctioneer and maybe even delay his Auctioneer if you time it right. Once you've got your wall set, the rest is about staying outside of lethal range, which means you should have some heals in your deck. If you succeed in doing both than Miracle Rogue becomes a cakewalk as they just can't kill you. Now, considering that cards like Shieldmastas, Sunwalkers, Farseers, Holy Light, etc, are generally good cards regardless of Miracle Rogue, you aren't gimping your other matchups too much by including them. Sure, it will make some of them weaker, make some others stronger but in general the impact on the other matchups shouldn't be too big.

The key to any deck, not just Paladin control, is to have your core(that you never change) set, and than constantly adjust the flexible part of the deck according to the classes you see most often in your current rank at the current time.
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Posts: 1,382
05/15/2014 07:40 PMPosted by Minev
Just save equality and consecration for the Gadgetzan, you cripple Miracle rouge if you remove it.


I've tried this... it doesn't work. The rogues I've been running into don't drop gadgetzan until they have the mana and spells in hand to really draw a tonne of cards with him that turn.

I just lost a match to exactly this - I played the combo removing the gadgetzan while it was concealed, it just didn't matter - because he'd already played conceal, both preparations and 4 other spells the same turn he dropped the auctioneer. 6 cards drawn still gave him his win combo.

That, and he'd already done a 5 damage bladeflurry the round before he dropped auctioneer, which was also completely impossible to counter....

Bottom line is, they draw the win, and you're just a spectator in the match.
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