Legendary Player's Take On Paladin

Posts: 98
Seeing a paladin at the legendary level in constructed is a lot like seeing a unicorn (or priest lol). This is because the class is quite weak currently. Anyway, I just finished up playing about 150 games at the legendary rank. In that time I fell quite far in ranks from about 850 to 1200. Here are my impressions on the individual class cards which I tried all of.

Light's Justice is very bad with very little real use. I could see it fitting somewhere in a rush deck potentially. This is because 4 damage for 1 mana is not a bad deal but it definitely isn't a good one, either. I'd much rather play Leper Gnome which is likely going to be 2+ damage and give your opponent something to deal with. As for the value of hitting enemy minions with a 1 damage weapon... I mean there are situations where this will be useful (against face rush decks) but against most match ups it definitely won't be.

Blessing of Might is a card that could fit into a paladin rush deck decently. It is basically a weaker version of rogue's Cold Blood due to having 1 less damage but at least it has some synergy with divine shield. I could see it having some uses.

Blessing of Wisdom is not strong. In a control deck it doesn't fit at all since you're very unlikely to get more than one attack off with the minion before he dies. In a rush deck if you put it on a divine shielded minion it might actually net you a cards or two. But on the other hand it is also going to slow you down. If your deck's goal is to control the board early and have a prolonged game (as opposed to being a pure face rush deck) that is where this card is really going to shine.

Eye for an eye is *terrible* and will never see use at higher level play.

Hand of protection is not worth the card. You're hoping for a situation where you can save your high mana cost minion while killing an enemy one. However this is quite situational and when it works the net effect isn't even that strong. You're basically rewarded by saving a few mana which is just not going to be worth it considering the situation won't even come up a lot. Compare this card to bestial wrath or commanding shout - it is far worse than either of those. And neither of those cards is used, either.

Humility is a weak card. Compare it to other hard removal cards in the game for a similar mana cost. Execute eliminates a big threat, hunters mark trades in a very cheap minion (often free with UtH or vulture). After using this card now your opponent has a still usefull 1-X minion that can be used to mop up your hero power if nothing else. They also have an excellent creature to be buffed with something like mark of the wild. Finally, this card is highly susceptible to silence. Compare that to hunter's mark or execute which has an immediate effect of killing an enemy minion.

Noble Sacrifice is terrible. At best it *might* trade for an about evenly cost card but most of the time it just won't. Any time you're making a card where at best it is trading evenly there is a big problem...

Redemption is terrible because you cannot choose when it goes off. If this could be activated on your own turn it would be way better because you could choose to have your, say, argent crusader be the one that dies. This card is especially bad against hunters for UtH and warlocks for mortal coil. This is another one of those cards that at best is going to trade in for another low mana cost one but often won't. Once in a while your minion might actually survive long enough to take out a higher cost card... but against saving a few mana with the big potential of just losing a card is not worth the risk. It will only really shine if you're playing weak opposition and they kill your 3/1 divine shielded guy.

Repentance is bad because your opponent can work around it pretty easily in a lot of cases. Against a rush deck it really doesn't work and against a control deck they can put out a lower HP guy to test the waters. This secret isn't quite as bad as the other ones. However for a thought experiment compare it to hunter's mark for a moment. Hunters mark is 0 mana and you get to choose who it targets immediately. Hunters also get to draw far more cards than Paladin. Hunter's mark is superior in every way - mana cost, timining, control of it, etc. Sometimes I really wonder how such egregious card strength differences made it through beta.

Equality is a very strong card and is in my opinion the sole reason paladins work at all right now. It has great synergy with a lot of cards and also the hero power. It would easily fit into any paladin deck. If it wasn't for this card you can forget it, no paladin would be able to legitimately get legendary. This card is probably actually too strong, if only most of the other paladin cards weren't so terrible. If blizzard actually decides to rework the paladin class (lol) then this card might actually be made more expensive or somehow nerfed a bit.

Holy light is an alright card. Not great but not bad. It is bad for rush but for control it makes sense to run if your goal is to play long, drawn out games (which the paladin is very good at doing). I don't see any problems here.

Argent protector is strong and definitely fits into rush and board control decks. He also isn't bad in control. I think this card is fantastically designed and nothing should be changed.

Sword of justice might be good in a rush or early game deck. While I didn't run this card I don't actually think it is too bad. I also think it has the potential to get very interesting with future expansions. I would leave it as is.

Divine favor is good in rush decks. The problem of course is that you're really relying on getting this card quite strongly. If you hit one you're probably going to be in good shape in the mid game and if not well you're just screwed. Paladin rush decks will largely be built around this. Blessing of wisdom can help cycle cards to getting it... but again is that really worth slowing down a rush for? This card really is just best in a paladin board control deck.

Aldor peacekeeper is a staple in any paladin deck. A very strong minion and a well designed card. While on the stronger side of things I don't think he is overpowered. GJ designing this card.

Truesilver champion is again a staple and will go into any paladin deck. It is just really strong but not overpowered. Nothing else to say.

Blessing of kings is a medium strength card. It is a situational card in that if you have board control it is very strong and has a variety of uses. If your board is empty however it is quite weak. I think cards like this are well designed.

Consecration is a strong card especially for control. The combination of this and equality is just insane and will often win you the game. I don't think it is overpowered though, just a well designed card. If your opponent is playing zoo for example and puts down 5 2 health minions for you on round 4 well that was just their bad decision... doesn't mean the card is OP.

Hammer of wrath I think is ok. It does come out a bit slow but in the future I can definitely see it fitting into decks better. I ran it at first with mixed results but finally decided it is just too slow.

Blessed champion is just too expensive for what it does. It fits poorly into a rush deck and costs too much to really combo well enough for some kind of burst damage. I mean at best you're hoping for something like leeroy + might + this for a sweet 16 damage burst. But that is a 3 card combo that you're unlikely to get. Compare that to, say, druids with their 2 card 14 damage combo that is a lot easier to get. Or just compare this card to something like power overwhelming. Really this card sucks and should be a *lot* cheaper like 3 mana. Even at 3 mana it might not get used but in its current state I doubt it'll ever get used. I mean it might seem too strong if you have out a giant out already but if thats the case on a paladin it means you've probably won already anyway.

Holy wrath is terrible. A random amount of damage for 5 mana. It is like a bad version of Hammer of wrath. This card still probably wouldn't get played at the highest levels if it was 3 mana... that random factor is huge.

Avenging wrath is a medium strength card that I stopped running after a while. It seems like it should be strong but it doesn't actually play out that well right now. I think this is another card that can easily get better as more cards are added to the game and more options open. Right now something like equality + this is just a more expensive version of consecration.

Guardian of kings is not horrible but very expensive for what he does. I do think lowering the mana cost by one wouldn't break him by any means and make him a lot more playable. I don't think this is the kind of card that is going to get any better as more cards get added to the game... so the question is if it is good enough right now. I am not really so sure that he is.

Lay on Hands is a strong, well designed card. Not overpowered and fits very well into what the paladin ought to be.

Tirion is a fine card although I actually stopped running him personally. I found him to be strong versus control decks but I already did very well versus those. Against hunters he was alright but the game is often already over by turn 8... against Zoo the game is almost always over already as well. This is in my opinion a very overrated card where some people seem to think he is amazing. Really though given that he has no strong immediate effect I just don't see that being true... and he is so vulnerable to hex/poly/silence/faceless and so on. I actually replaced him with Rag.
Edited by Bekk on 4/29/2014 1:04 PM PDT
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Posts: 179
Did you get to legendary running a paladin deck? If so, well played indeed. My favorite hero is the paladin, but I just can't get anywhere with my paladin decks. I usually top out at rank 6-8.
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Posts: 98
No I will be attempting that at the start of next season, though. Will be streaming it on twitch, too!
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Posts: 294
Good luck to you, I played mostly Paladin this season, got about 120 wins in and topped at rank 7. Done trying to rank up higher for this season anyway, I'm giving the Malygos/ Rogue Miracle deck a try. It's a lot of fun to OTK people the turn after you play Malygos and stealth him.

I really would like to see Paladin get a nice card from the upcoming expansion.. or maybe a bit of a rework, because comparatively they really are one of the weaker classes, especially in the current meta. A bit disappointing considering how much Paladin I've played over the last few weeks, but I enjoyed it. I just wonder what rank I could've hit if I had played something like a ZooLock or a Hunter instead.

EDIT: Forgot to mention it but I agree with every one of your opinions on the cards.. but please don't say Equality should be nerfed it's the only thing we have going for us!
Edited by PHxLoki on 4/29/2014 5:15 PM PDT
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Posts: 92
I agree with almost everything you said in this thread, as well as a lot of other people i think.
And that's a bad and sad thing, because it just show how limited the options for paladin are atm.
You see, pala is legend viable for sure, but you'll see the same decks over and over again.

They really need to make A LOT more play options viable for paladin, but maybe we'll get some love when the naxxramas patch arrives.
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Posts: 98
I was thinking a bit more on this and I can honestly say that even if all the secrets were 0 mana i still wouldn't run any of them. It is pretty sick bad poorly designed this aspect of paladins is.
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Posts: 294
04/29/2014 06:22 PMPosted by Bekk
I was thinking a bit more on this and I can honestly say that even if all the secrets were 0 mana i still wouldn't run any of them. It is pretty sick bad poorly designed this aspect of paladins is.


I might run redemption if it was zero mana cost.. and that would only be if I was playing a lot of ZooLocks... and only when I have an Abomination on the field. Other than that I see no need for Paladin secrets, aside from maybe in aggro-paladin.
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Posts: 502
I agree with everything in your post except Redemption. You can argue that it doesn't go well in most Paladin decks, but it is not a terrible card. They're amazing in the right deck, you just need to be smart with it.
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Posts: 160
Guys, you are obviously not using the secrects well.
I don't have any secrets in my controll deck (which has brought me to rank12 this season).
I do use them on my other deck.
I use the *redemption* one only when I have a Taunt on the board, and this way you get 2 taunts for the price of one. and since that taunt is usually the divine-shielded-cow (forgot its name) its realy great. also, I think this would be even better when I'll have Tirion for this deck.

other than that, I don't agree with anyone saying the paly deck is too weak.
the problem lays with the fact that more than 50% of the players use only 2 classes (hunter/lock) out of the 9 available. they focus on one aspect of the hunter/lock decks and this emphasizes the gap (and yes, there is a minor gap).
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Posts: 104
Tirion is useless. Replace him with Ragnaros or Ysera, much better picks. In the last few days I played paladin control using Tirion, there wasn't 1 single game where he didn't get immediately silenced or hexed or polymorphed on the opponent's turn. Sometimes the opponent also got a Tirion of his own with Faceless Manipulator just before silencing/destroying it. What a valuable card indeed.
Edited by Erëssea on 4/30/2014 8:06 AM PDT
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Posts: 84
I agree with you on most aspects....
Redemption is a good card and i think will be even better post Nax. It should score medium value on your list and the right deck it can even be considered Strong. I'm only a rank 5 casual tho so meh.
I will agree with you stopping using Tirion. I play him, but his value has been questionable. I rarely play him unless its late in a control match up and i have Harrison in hand.
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Posts: 98
you get 2 taunts for the price of one.


Except it is more like 2 taunts for the price of 2 taunts... because it still costs 2 cards.

other than that, I don't agree with anyone saying the paly deck is too weak.


Why is there not a single paladin in the top couple hundred players? I know the highest one and he is 300 on the best of days.
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Posts: 63
A fine post. The only card I think I disagree with is Blessing of Wisdom. I always put 1 in all of my Paladin decks, and never regret it.
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Posts: 43
04/30/2014 01:54 AMPosted by IamNotAnumbr
Guys, you are obviously not using the secrects well.
I don't have any secrets in my controll deck (which has brought me to rank12 this season).


That's great, and I have had similar success with my pally deck (70%-80% win rate according to my Hearthstone tracker), but the difference between rank 12 and ranks 5-1 is significant. Paladin decks usually run into a glass ceiling on the ladder, where even if they've been very successful earlier, they just can't break through at higher ranks to reach Legend. I have no illusions that I'll be able to maintain this win rate past rank 7 or so with a paladin deck. Pallies seem to drop off in droves around then, so enjoy it while you still can.

I'll definitely be interested to see if Bekk can reach Legend next season, as I'm sure he's a much better player than I am, and I still have a lot to learn even though I've been around since open beta.
Edited by Kestrel on 4/30/2014 10:01 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,459
04/29/2014 07:03 PMPosted by Fraurrix
I agree with everything in your post except Redemption. You can argue that it doesn't go well in most Paladin decks, but it is not a terrible card. They're amazing in the right deck, you just need to be smart with it.


The problem is it's too easy to detect, so they use a low damage to sniff it out. I have tried, but with so few paladin secrets played as it is it's extremely predictable which one you are using.
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