How is zoolock acceptable?

Posts: 393
Hearthstone is a game where there can not be complete balance, but it doesn't mean there should be a style of play that is based on putting as many minions on the field as possible in the shortest amount of time.

The only thought of skill in the deck is whether or not to sacrifice a minion to kill another (which is almost never).

The zoolock has a couple counters, but players should not be forced to play a certain class/style just to stand a chance.

It's all fine when a class is at a 6/4 advantage over another, but this deck has a 8/2, 9/1, 10/0 matchups.

Zoolock seems to be...
Good starting hand for the warlock = a HIGH chance to win
Bad hand for the warlock = 6/4chance to win
With the card types a lock has, a bad hand isn't likely because of how well the low cards can work with eachother.

While other classes are more like...
Incredible hand = "I may be able to win this"
Bad hand = "Concede now, 1/9 advantage, waste of time.

The game (like fighting games) should have bad and good matchups, but never should have matchups where you sit there unable to do anything throughout the game.
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Posts: 9,650
05/15/2014 11:24 PMPosted by Sef
The only thought of skill in the deck is whether or not to sacrifice a minion to kill another (which is almost never).


You obviously do not understand the deck at all. It's main focus is board control. If it loses board control, it loses.
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Posts: 1,530
whether or not to sacrifice a minion to kill another (which is almost never)


So much wrong in this quote, it hurts.
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Posts: 1,007
If I remember correctly, stats for April say warlock wins 53% of its games. So all those win ratios you pulled out of your backside are proven to be bull!@#$. And you didn't really have any other arguments other than "omg no skill 2 play dis" which people say about every strong deck to try to justify their losing to it. Only a few weeks ago miracle was considered a high-skill deck, and now everywhere you go there's scrubs crying that "omg miracle no skill u just play gadgetzan and 20 spells and then leeroy and u win imba".

Don't get me wrong, 53% is good and zoo's strong. But you exaggerated so much your whole argument is worthless.
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Posts: 393
05/15/2014 11:32 PMPosted by Shoogle
If I remember correctly, stats for April say warlock wins 53% of its games. So all those win ratios you pulled out of your backside are proven to be bull!@#$. And you didn't really have any other arguments other than "omg no skill 2 play dis" which people say about every strong deck to try to justify their losing to it. Only a few weeks ago miracle was considered a high-skill deck, and now everywhere you go there's scrubs crying that "omg miracle no skill u just play gadgetzan and 20 spells and then leeroy and u win imba".

Don't get me wrong, 53% is good and zoo's strong. But you exaggerated so much your whole argument is worthless.


"Warlock wins" and I said zoolock. There isn't any stat for zoolock. Learn to read
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05/15/2014 11:24 PMPosted by Sef
players should not be forced to play a certain class/style


I agree.

So stop saying what styles should or should not exist already.
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Posts: 393
05/15/2014 11:32 PMPosted by Shoogle
If I remember correctly, stats for April say warlock wins 53% of its games. So all those win ratios you pulled out of your backside are proven to be bull!@#$. And you didn't really have any other arguments other than "omg no skill 2 play dis" which people say about every strong deck to try to justify their losing to it. Only a few weeks ago miracle was considered a high-skill deck, and now everywhere you go there's scrubs crying that "omg miracle no skill u just play gadgetzan and 20 spells and then leeroy and u win imba".

Don't get me wrong, 53% is good and zoo's strong. But you exaggerated so much your whole argument is worthless.


"Warlock wins" and I said zoolock. There isn't any stat for zoolock. Learn to read
Also to note, you know zoolock wins against a lot of decks that sit there unable to do a single thing. Players should be given a chance to win than to sit there unable to clear the bored by turn 5
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Posts: 6,502
The question is, what can be done about it?

90% of the cards are neutrals. You can't go around nerfing neutrals and upset the balance of other classes which uses these neutrals.

The possible solutions against aggro (not just zoo) that I can see is the following:

1. Make all AOE spells cost one mana less.

Or

2. Make new cards which slows down aggro. An example will be a 2/4 minion for 3 which heals the owner at the start of each turn by 2. Then for sure you will see him become an important target. Or a (legendary) minion that damages the opponent each time you take damage.
Edited by Wtflag on 5/15/2014 11:39 PM PDT
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Posts: 638
Because blizzard severely underestimates the power of card draw.

Zoo is the incarnation of cancer in this game because unless you get a godlike draw you cannot do much vs it if their draw is even average.
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Posts: 207
Zoolocks are strong, I agree, but hardly unacceptable.

Their playstyle is actually NOT putting as many minions on the board as possible, since this is stupid no matter who you play. It's all about getting as much value from you minions as possible, which seems like an easy thing to do, but a lot of the time it's not.

Try and play a Zoolock and see that mindless minion dropping and going to the face will backfire. You still need to be smart about it. It's quite a common misconception that Zoo is a rush deck. It's not.

If you are unable to do anything an entire game, I'm sorry to say, but that's on you.
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Posts: 393
05/15/2014 11:40 PMPosted by RadicalEd
Zoolocks are strong, I agree, but hardly unacceptable.

Their playstyle is actually NOT putting as many minions on the board as possible, since this is stupid no matter who you play. It's all about getting as much value from you minions as possible, which seems like an easy thing to do, but a lot of the time it's not.

Try and play a Zoolock and see that mindless minion dropping and going to the face will backfire. You still need to be smart about it. It's quite a common misconception that Zoo is a rush deck. It's not.

If you are unable to do anything an entire game, I'm sorry to say, but that's on you.


Yes I know you don't just mindless drop them and find yourself without many cards. The main part of the argument is that the game shouldnt be decided by the cards you draw at the beginning. Usually I find myself begging for 1 card on a turn to keep myself alive unless I draw the 1 card I need. Though likely then I can't put a minion down that turn and the lock throws 2-3 next turn and I find myself in the same spot.

And I'm not playing bad moves. It's moves where I have no choice or else I die.
Edited by Sef on 5/15/2014 11:46 PM PDT
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Posts: 207
Yes I know you don't just mindless drop them and find yourself without many cards. The main part of the argument is that the game shouldnt be decided by the cards you draw at the beginning. Usually I find myself begging for 1 card on a turn to keep myself alive unless I draw the 1 card I need.


I feel this is somehow the nature of card games, and not so much the Zoo's fault. Allthough I would agree that a Zoo with a perfect hand and perfect draw for the first 4 turns will simply crush you.

You should maybe try playing control Warrior or Druid. They don't depend on a perfect starting hand.

Or you could have some fun like me, and play Zoo, but with Mind Control Techs to counter other Zoos. They make them cry every time.

EDIT: They don't like Hellfire either
Edited by RadicalEd on 5/15/2014 11:55 PM PDT
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Posts: 393
05/15/2014 11:54 PMPosted by RadicalEd
Yes I know you don't just mindless drop them and find yourself without many cards. The main part of the argument is that the game shouldnt be decided by the cards you draw at the beginning. Usually I find myself begging for 1 card on a turn to keep myself alive unless I draw the 1 card I need.


I feel this is somehow the nature of card games, and not so much the Zoo's fault. Allthough I would agree that a Zoo with a perfect hand and perfect draw for the first 4 turns will simply crush you.

You should maybe try playing control Warrior or Druid. They don't depend on a perfect starting hand.

Or you could have some fun like me, and play Zoo, but with Mind Control Techs to counter other Zoos. They make them cry every time.

EDIT: They don't like Hellfire either


I actually play ramp druid because I enjoy the "you can do this or that depending on your situation" style. It is a lot of fun to me.

Sometimes I can win if I play it perfectly and if I draw the right cards, but other times I can't do a thing and I simply play the game to lose.

I also play mage and I know arcane explosion would work really well against zoo, but it is rather terrible for every single other class.

Basically I would need to reduce my chance of winning against the other 7 class to have a higher chance to win against the 1.

I feel I need to work much harder for the win than a zoo lock
Edited by Sef on 5/16/2014 12:07 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,308
05/15/2014 11:35 PMPosted by Sef
05/15/2014 11:32 PMPosted by Shoogle
If I remember correctly, stats for April say warlock wins 53% of its games. So all those win ratios you pulled out of your backside are proven to be bull!@#$. And you didn't really have any other arguments other than "omg no skill 2 play dis" which people say about every strong deck to try to justify their losing to it. Only a few weeks ago miracle was considered a high-skill deck, and now everywhere you go there's scrubs crying that "omg miracle no skill u just play gadgetzan and 20 spells and then leeroy and u win imba".

Don't get me wrong, 53% is good and zoo's strong. But you exaggerated so much your whole argument is worthless.


"Warlock wins" and I said zoolock. There isn't any stat for zoolock. Learn to read


correct. the 53% is TOTAL warlock wins. "zoo" lock is a TYPE of warlock, so only a FRACTION of warlock players actually play with the "zoo" decks. so...you're the one should be questioning your reading skills, not the person you were responding too...
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Posts: 1,308
when you say "sit there doing nothing the whole game", do you actually really mean playing no cards at all? or that you never have answers in your hand for what the zoo lock puts on the board? cause those are different things...and they hhave different responses.
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Posts: 1,040
zoo lock and miracle rogue needs to be nerfed somehow, its getting so fn stupid, high rankings all I see is auctioneer and draw 10 fn cards at no cost then Leroy, zero skill, zoo least more is happening other than bull!@#$ just the hero power is pretty op
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Posts: 204
Zoo locks are so easy to deal with it. Learn how already.
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Posts: 162
05/15/2014 11:38 PMPosted by Wtflag
The question is, what can be done about it?

90% of the cards are neutrals. You can't go around nerfing neutrals and upset the balance of other classes which uses these neutrals.

The possible solutions against aggro (not just zoo) that I can see is the following:

1. Make all AOE spells cost one mana less.

Or

2. Make new cards which slows down aggro. An example will be a 2/4 minion for 3 which heals the owner at the start of each turn by 2. Then for sure you will see him become an important target. Or a (legendary) minion that damages the opponent each time you take damage.


I think the solution is to add a +1 cost to cards drawn via warlock hero power. it doesn't slow down zoo a ton, and virtually none once you get to mid-late game (but if you get that far you've pretty much won anyway), but I think maybe enough to even things out (if you get a bad draw you're still going to lose, and about as fast, but if you get an average one, you probably would still stand a fighting chance), while also giving a small nerf to what is clearly the strongest hero power in the game.
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Posts: 9,650
05/16/2014 01:14 AMPosted by tomiathon
I think the solution is to add a +1 cost to cards drawn via warlock hero power.


Awesome idea, if you want locks to become the bottom of the barrel class, below Priests.
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Posts: 638
Drawing perfectly to counter someone putting out resistant yet powerful minions with the constant threat of buffs / doomguard is not a skill its called luck.

Slow zoo decks are np but when you play vs people who all in without a care in the world and have an empty hand on turn 4 its kinda stupid because every Minion they have up may aswell be a taunt as you cannot afford to leave stuff on their board due to argus / abusive / shattered sun / dire wolf / priestess.

But its only a joke because doomguard / soul fire / life tap work far to well with low drop spamming.
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