Blizzard Please Fix this....

Posts: 34
You can't cheat in Hearthstone, unless you are a Warlock. How are they able to cheat? They are able to cheat because they have class specific cards that are able to ignore the rules which make them balanced, and here are some examples.

Doomguard: Discard two cards to play this card. Wow a 5/7 with charge for just five mana. Without the discarding of two cards there is no way this card is balanced, so we can all agree that is a fair card right? But wait you can play it with no cards in your hand to discard? Are you serious?

Succubus: Discard one card to play this card. Okay, for two mana you get a 4/3 again that is a balanced card, but wait again you can play it with no cards in your hand? So you can draw it, play it, then life tap? How is that balanced?

Soulfire: Cost zero mana, but you have to discard a random card to play it. Again you can play this card without discarding anything if it is the only card in your hand. Why is this aloud Blizzard?

This makes no sense at all. You can argue that Warlocks are aloud to do this because there is a chance they could be losing a game and by being able to draw and play a card without discarding would give them a fighting chance, but even then that is unfair and unbalanced to the game as a whole.

Now image if Hearthstone was an actual physical card game and you were playing someone and that person tried to play a card that demanded discarding one or more cards in order to play that card, but they had no cards in their hand. Would you smile and go along with it, or would you argue? Because Hearthstone is a video game we cannot argue about the rules, even if the player ignores the cost of a spell or minion. Other classes are not aloud to ignore the cost of their cards, because they are balanced, why is the Warlock the only one that is aloud to do this?

I understand that the Warlock class is about trading, just look at Flame Imp or Pit Lord. The Felguard might be the best example of this idea, but when you allow Warlocks to ignore the rules that have been put in place to balance the game then you go from trading to stealing.

Not only do they have an advantage, but tons of these zoolock decks are flooding the game. Before when I would play against a zoolock deck I would be like, "well that's not fair but what are you gonna do?" That was two weeks ago, now every other game or sometimes back to back is a zoolock player. Today I lost to five of the same decks from five different players in a row! That is insane, Blizzard you have to fix this. That is actually why I am making this post.

I'm not asking to nerf Warlocks, just make them pay their cost! Make the game balanced before I am forced to become a mindless zoolock, because if you can't beat them you might as well join them right?

This game was so fun and balanced before.... but everything changed when the Zoolock nation attacked.

If anyone has any ideas on how to help balance the Warlock class please let me know. I personally think losing life and destroying mana crystals would be the easy fix.
Edited by Paladin on 5/30/2014 10:55 AM PDT
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Posts: 545
Your tears are a delicacy to us warlocks. Keep them coming, they satiate me...
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Posts: 838
05/30/2014 08:54 AMPosted by Paladin
You can't cheat in Hearthstone, unless you are a Warlock. How are they able to cheat? They are able to cheat because they have class specific cards that are able to ignore the rules which make them balanced, and here are some examples.

Doomguard: Discard two cards to play this card.


Stopped here. Discarding cards is not a payment.. it's a battlecry effect, the minion/spell is ALREADY PLAYED before the discards take effect. Expecting a battlecry to happen no matter what is like expecting one of the Pandas to use its battlecry to return itself to the owner's hand on an empty board, thats what your logic and complaining equates to logically as far as discards.

Besides, in order to discard 0 cards they need to have no other cards in their hand, putting them at a disadvantage later since they have no options / only two cards next turn if using hero power.
Edited by striker9936 on 5/30/2014 9:10 AM PDT
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Posts: 34
You read the first paragraph and commented? You really shouldn't make a judgement about something before you have heard the whole story and thought it through, that's just being ignorant.

What I am saying is that Hearthstone is a card game and like all good card games requires balance. Without balance everyone will play with the same deck in hope of being able to win more games. When this happens the idea of strategy is thrown out the window. A card game like Hearthstone is fun because you work hard on a strategy and play against others that have different strategies.

As long as Warlocks are aloud to play cards that ignore their balancing effects then the game is unbalanced. An unbalanced game is not very fun. That is all I am saying man.
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05/30/2014 09:27 AMPosted by Paladin
to play cards that ignore their balancing effects then the game is unbalanced
Those balancing effects are balanced around the fact that sometimes they aren't paid.
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Posts: 838
05/30/2014 09:27 AMPosted by Paladin
You read the first paragraph and commented? You really shouldn't make a judgement about something before you have heard the whole story and thought it through, that's just being ignorant.

What I am saying is that Hearthstone is a card game and like all good card games requires balance. Without balance everyone will play with the same deck in hope of being able to win more games. When this happens the idea of strategy is thrown out the window. A card game like Hearthstone is fun because you work hard on a strategy and play against others that have different strategies.

As long as Warlocks are aloud to play cards that ignore their balancing effects then the game is unbalanced. An unbalanced game is not very fun. That is all I am saying man.


I wasn't judging your entire post, just criticizing this viewpoint on the discards being viewed as a "cost" when it's not. Ultimately, it's a battlecry effect... the card is ALREADY PLAYED before the effect happens, which means that Doomguard is already on the table with charge, and that Soulfire hit something in the face for 4 damage. The only cost is the mana... after that, if a battlecry cannot be carried out (as with other battlecries) then it is ignored.

Doesn't sound like I'm the ignorant one, here, not at all..
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Posts: 1,291
All those cards have a drawback... if you can't discard because you don't have any cards left, that's a drawback, too. If you don't understand how important card advantage is, you don't really understand this game.

And as soon as you learn the difference between "aloud" and "allowed" you stand a better chance of being taken seriously.
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Posts: 638
There is no point trying to explain to people that doomguard is not balanced around a 5 mana summon.

This games comes down to this.

Cost is mana

Effect is everything else

Doomguard is an 8 mana minion but you can play it on turn 5 for a HUGE tempo increase by discarding cards.

It is abusive of the mechanic to allow it to be played without discard, imo it should gain stats for every card discarded and be a lot weaker without discard or just not be allowed to be played without the discard, but then you get the zoo babies complaining that the deck they are playing is balanced and they cant win games anymore, so problems no matter what you do.
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Posts: 682
You should not be able to play Doomguard if you don't have 2 cards to discards. Blizzard will fix this in a upcoming patch. It's broken and you know it, you just can't admit it because your cheap Warlock zoo deck is the only one you can afford playing... better not be nerfed lol.
All the Zoo Warlock free players noobs out there think they know how to play the game... haha
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05/30/2014 08:54 AMPosted by Paladin
Now image if Hearthstone was an actual physical card game and you were playing someone and that person tried to play a card that demanded discarding one or more cards in order to play that card, but they had no cards in their hand.

And that's where your whole argument falls apart. The cards don't "demand discarding one or more cards in order to play" them. If they did, it would be listed as part of the cost. It's not cheating, it's not avoiding the rules, it's how those cards were designed. Blizzard purposely made those discard effects into Battlecries, rather than making them part of the casting cost. If they want to change it in the future, that's up to them, but it's not cheating.

The way a battlecry works is that if you CAN do what it says, then you MUST do what it says. If I don't have any minions on the board, and you have some, when I play Abusive Sergeant, i have to give one of your minions +2 attack until end of turn. I can't ignore it. If I have two or more cards in my hand and play Doomguard, then I have to discard two of them. I can't ignore it. But, if neither of us have minions on the board, I can still play Abusive Sergeant because the battlecry isn't a condition of playing the card, it's just part of the effect. Similarly, if I only have Doomguard in my hand, I'm still able to play him because the battlecry isn't a condition of playing the card.

Soulfire doesn't say "You must discard a random card," which is why I can play Soulfire even if I only have it in my hand. It's not cheating, it's clearly how Blizzard designed the game and balanced those cards.
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But the point is that it 'should' be necessary.

Because the cards are good even without avoiding the discard, the tempo gain (when hero's only have 30 hp aswell) is completely insane.
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05/30/2014 09:56 AMPosted by Tig20xxX
Blizzard will fix this in a upcoming patch


Prepare to have your little heart broken.
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05/30/2014 10:14 AMPosted by AjayxD
But the point is that it 'should' be necessary.


In YOUR opinion, which counts for nothing. Using your logic, it should be impossible to play Swamp Ooze if there is no weapon to destroy. There are numerous examples of battlecries that go to waste.. and I'm sure there are as many forum posters out there just itching to jump in with more examples.

Better yet, dry your eyes and quit expecting Mommy Blizzard to nerf everything that upsets your stomach.
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05/30/2014 09:09 AMPosted by striker9936
Stopped here. Discarding cards is not a payment.. it's a battlecry effect,


And this is exactly what needs to be changed, in no way is a 5/7 charge for 5 mana balanced.
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05/30/2014 08:54 AMPosted by Paladin
You can't cheat in Hearthstone, unless you are a Warlock.

Stopped reading.

Learn to play.
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05/30/2014 10:20 AMPosted by DòóM
05/30/2014 09:09 AMPosted by striker9936
Stopped here. Discarding cards is not a payment.. it's a battlecry effect,


And this is exactly what needs to be changed, in no way is a 5/7 charge for 5 mana balanced.
Neither is a 5/7 charge that forces you discard 2, meaning its a dead card a lot of the time,
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Posts: 638
Its because of the stat budget of the minion you clown, the doomguard gets increased stats becasue you discard.

Not paying for the extra stat is insane, its the warlock version of innervate, like this.

Druid, You pay 2 cards to get a minion out ahead of its time, this gives you a massive tempo advantage at the cost of card advantage (this is annoying, but it is balanced)

Warlock, You should pay 3 cards to get a doomguard out on turn 5, this gives you disgusting levels of board presence and is balanced when you pay the discard, without the discard it gives the result of huge tempo while paying nothing for it, this is overpowered, that isint an opinion, that is actually just a fact.

So it comes down to this.

Is getting an 8 mana card out on turn 5 worth discarding a couple of cards, if in your opinion yes then play doomguard and build your curve around not discarding anything important (see zoo)

Is getting an 8 mana card out on turn 5 without discarding anything and only paying 5 mana for it balanced, if in your opinion yes then hopefully you wake up one day and smell the coffee.
Edited by AjayxD on 5/30/2014 10:25 AM PDT
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05/30/2014 10:23 AMPosted by masters66
Neither is a 5/7 charge that forces you discard 2, meaning its a dead card a lot of the time,


Only bad players would play it when it discards both unless its your only option, and when it only discards 1 you're guarenteed a 2 for 2 minimum, the card is broken.
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Posts: 2,077
05/30/2014 10:23 AMPosted by AjayxD
Is getting an 8 mana card out on turn 5 without discarding anything and only paying 5 mana for it balanced, if in your opinion yes then hopefully you wake up one day and smell the coffee.


Dont bother trying to explain the warlock fanboys anything, they wont understand anything, the class has been top tier since beta and !@#$ havent changed a thing.
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Posts: 1,291
05/30/2014 10:23 AMPosted by AjayxD
it gives the result of huge tempo while paying nothing for it, this is overpowered, that isint an opinion, that is actually just a fact.


Please double check the definition of "fact" which appears to have you confused. A fact is not something you believe to be true but is clearly disputable, which this is. So it's pretty much your opinion, which is not shared by everyone, especially Blizzard, which is the only opinion that actually counts.
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