What's so bad about zoo?

Posts: 2,454
Most viable decks have a favorable matchup against it. Whether I'm playing ramp druid, mid range druid, miracle rogue, tempo rogue, shaman, rush mage, freeze mage, rush hunter, mid range hunter, control warrior, or other viable decks, I tend to not have trouble against zoo. I always feel relief when I see a turn one flame imp turn two knife juggler instead of turn one pass turn two life tap. Just play a viable deck, and make safe/intelligent decisions and you'll have a pretty good winrate against zoo. Of course, as with any other deck, if they get a really great hand/draws and you get a really bad hand/draws you will lose. That's why you can't have a 100% winrate against it. Most viable decks can maintain at least a 60% winrate against zoo.

Let's say you are playing a deck that has a really unfavorable matchup against zoo, and you are playing a lot of zoos on ladder. In that case, why do you continue to play that deck? If I'm playing miracle rogue and encountering a lot of handlocks, I will lose a lot because my deck isn't great against handlock. Does this make handlock OP? No, it just has a good matchup against what I'm playing. If I was seeing mostly handlocks I might switch to rush hunter. If you are playing a deck that sucks against zoo, and you are seeing a lot of zoos, switch your deck!

Also, if it weren't for zoo, there would be more people complaining about the game being pay to win. Without it, there would be no low cost decks that can compete with high cost decks. So how can you guys complain about it?
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Posts: 144
Zoo is for the living dead among us. The brainless ones who are destroying this game..
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What do you mean? It's the only viable deck for people with few cards. I'm glad we have a deck like that. It also requires much more skill than people give it credit for. 90% of people I see on ladder make huge misplays with it, let alone minor ones.
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06/13/2014 12:36 PMPosted by BasedGob
What do you mean? It's the only viable deck for people with few cards. I'm glad we have a deck like that. It also requires much more skill than people give it credit for. 90% of people I see on ladder make huge misplays with it, let alone minor ones.

That's exactly why people don't like it, many ppl who have paid don't like seeing a cheaper deck win...

also so many ppl play it that it gets very old fast.
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06/13/2014 12:39 PMPosted by ChaosAE
06/13/2014 12:36 PMPosted by BasedGob
What do you mean? It's the only viable deck for people with few cards. I'm glad we have a deck like that. It also requires much more skill than people give it credit for. 90% of people I see on ladder make huge misplays with it, let alone minor ones.

That's exactly why people don't like it, many ppl who have paid don't like seeing a cheaper deck win...

also so many ppl play it that it gets very old fast.


If you have a lot of cards and therefor probably a good viable deck, then you should have a favorable matchup against zoo. What's there to complain about if everybody is playing a deck that you should be beating usually? Also in my experience zoo isn't that common at higher ranks.
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Posts: 143
Zoo is the abomination that was born after miracle rogues became a popular deck.
Edited by Cleared on 6/13/2014 12:57 PM PDT
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06/13/2014 12:56 PMPosted by Cleared
Zoo is the abomination that was born after miracle rogues became a popular deck.


? Miracle rogue beats zoo, and zoo has been around for months. Rush warlock in general has been around for like 9 months.
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06/13/2014 01:44 PMPosted by BasedGob
06/13/2014 12:56 PMPosted by Cleared
Zoo is the abomination that was born after miracle rogues became a popular deck.


? Miracle rogue beats zoo, and zoo has been around for months. Rush warlock in general has been around for like 9 months.


Lol right. I posted the first Zoo deck list ever in these forums back in closed beta in like August 13'. Look back in the closed beta forums to find it.

Keep in mind the list I posted contained multiple-Legendaries(and of course ore-nerf Blood Imp) but the format was much much slower then.

Edit: If you read the thread players where trying to tell me how bad the list was with only running 2 Soulfire as removal and so many small worthless creatures(including Shieldmaster).
Edited by Intoshadows on 6/13/2014 5:17 PM PDT
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Posts: 143
Rush warlock doesn't necessarily mean zoo. Zoo has a more control feel to it because they may include harvest golems, divine shields and defender of argus. Miracle rogues generally have a hard time dealing with those minions and early aggresion.
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Posts: 12
Exactly. I'd love to be playing Control Warrior or Handlock, but it's just not possible for a newer player. Zoo is one of the only viable decks I can realistically build right now.
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06/13/2014 03:47 PMPosted by justboy68
Exactly. I'd love to be playing Control Warrior or Handlock, but it's just not possible for a newer player. Zoo is one of the only viable decks I can realistically build right now.

I was pretty focused with crafting and had handlock up and running in about a month
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Posts: 1,415
The reason for the hate on zoo is simple: If they draw well, you lose.

It's not a matter of playing the game well or anything like that - like you yourself say in your original post, when they draw well, it's not counterable.

This is why it's lame.

Now...the flipside - what if they don't draw well? Here's the other half of the problem - most decks if they don't draw well are flat on their face and going to lose. Not so for zoo - that just pushes them back into an even matchup, instead of a free win. There is no 'totally flat' draw for zoo, because it skips the mana curve that is hardwired into hearthstone.

That being said...my warrior deck can thump zoo fairly well, and yeah, giantlock is much, much worse to deal with - it is also unbeatable for many matchups, I've yet to see anything that can really counter the massive turn 4-5-6-7 minions they can put out and give taunt to in a warrior deck. You get 2 executes, and I guess 2 brawls, after that you're stuck trying to kill them with weapons (Taking massive damage) and weaker minions that have to have charge, because if they don't warlock will remove them with soulfire etc. without them getting a chance to attack.

Either side of the warlock "meta" is a simple result of their hero power being overpowered. Card draw is precious in this game, and the warlock hero power is broken op'd for this purpose.
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06/13/2014 09:23 PMPosted by Died
The reason for the hate on zoo is simple: If they draw well, you lose.

It's not a matter of playing the game well or anything like that - like you yourself say in your original post, when they draw well, it's not counterable.

This is why it's lame.

Now...the flipside - what if they don't draw well? Here's the other half of the problem - most decks if they don't draw well are flat on their face and going to lose. Not so for zoo - that just pushes them back into an even matchup, instead of a free win. There is no 'totally flat' draw for zoo, because it skips the mana curve that is hardwired into hearthstone.

That being said...my warrior deck can thump zoo fairly well, and yeah, giantlock is much, much worse to deal with - it is also unbeatable for many matchups, I've yet to see anything that can really counter the massive turn 4-5-6-7 minions they can put out and give taunt to in a warrior deck. You get 2 executes, and I guess 2 brawls, after that you're stuck trying to kill them with weapons (Taking massive damage) and weaker minions that have to have charge, because if they don't warlock will remove them with soulfire etc. without them getting a chance to attack.

Either side of the warlock "meta" is a simple result of their hero power being overpowered. Card draw is precious in this game, and the warlock hero power is broken op'd for this purpose.


The thing is though, any deck that draws really well wins. If I am playing my regular druid deck and I start off with a wild growth and solid cards to play the next few turns I pretty much never lose. If I play miracle rogue and get strong early removal and then at some point turn 5-6 draw gadgetzan auctioneer + conceal I pretty much never lose. If I play shaman and get to coin unbound elemental -> feral spirit -> flame tongue I pretty much never lose. Zoo is no different. Your other argument seems to be that zoo never draws bad, that isn't really a problem with the class/hero power, that's more of a problem because zoo is made up of really low cost minions. That's no different from another rush deck like hunter having 90% of it's cards being low cost and having stuff like tracking to help you get the right cards right away.
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Posts: 240
maybe its because i'm still new to playing miracle rogue (trying it out for a bit), but zoo seems to be a 50/50 matchup, not a steamroll like your saying, they have a lot of annoying minions that are hard to kill and our cards sometimes can't keep up with the amount of sheer minions they throw at your face. that being said, a well timed deady + blade flurry is a really strong board clear
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Posts: 494
I'm finding that I'm positive with zoo against the other decks I've played/know and negative against the ones I don't.

The only horrible matchup is taunty druid stuff, obviously.

Miracle Rogue seems draw dependent on the side of the Rogue. If they play well and get an early SI then they tend to win. If they play badly or don't get agent they tend to lose.
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06/13/2014 12:36 PMPosted by BasedGob
What do you mean? It's the only viable deck for people with few cards. I'm glad we have a deck like that. It also requires much more skill than people give it credit for. 90% of people I see on ladder make huge misplays with it, let alone minor ones.

This is actually true.

The problem with zoo, in my opinion, is that Handlocks is also a popular deck. With the 2 decks having such completely different playstyles, it makes mulliganing extremely difficult. In addition, the deck is ridiculously consistent with their large number of 1 drops. Even when they are top decking, it is extremely difficult for a control deck to stabilize against it due to their 2 draws/turn and Doomguard/Soulfire being usable without discards. It's true that it has a higher skillcap than most people give it credit for, but it is also more forgiving for making mistakes and for overextending. I believe this has led many players to have bad feelings towards the deck.

According to Hearthstats, warlocks had >50% win ratio against every class in May, probably due to the above reasons and the recent nerf to UTH. In fact, aside from the Hunter matchup, Warlocks' win ratio is significantly higher than 50%. As it stands, warlocks are definitely too strong in the current meta, but at the same time zoo is not the skill-less deck most people think it is.
Edited by Lolerster on 6/14/2014 8:47 AM PDT
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Posts: 494
it makes mulliganing extremely difficult.


I think this is one of the best points I've seen against Warlock. I definitely win games where they've guessed wrong.
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Posts: 31
Not sure which universe people live in here, but midrange druid vs Zoo is very favorable for Zoo as long as the pilot is decent.
I've been playing Druid for two months, in a variety of versions, and Zoo is an absolute nightmare for both watcher and ramp, unless things fall into place perfectly. Most of the time my only chance against Zoo comes from him having a very bad draw or making a lot of mistakes. Most of the zoo games are also very one-sided, as even if you make the best possible plays, you usually don't stand a chance.
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Posts: 611
06/14/2014 09:10 AMPosted by Vohbo
Not sure which universe people live in here, but midrange druid vs Zoo is very favorable for Zoo as long as the pilot is decent.
I've been playing Druid for two months, in a variety of versions, and Zoo is an absolute nightmare for both watcher and ramp, unless things fall into place perfectly. Most of the time my only chance against Zoo comes from him having a very bad draw or making a lot of mistakes. Most of the zoo games are also very one-sided, as even if you make the best possible plays, you usually don't stand a chance.

Dunno in my eyes druids have great advantage versus Zoo.Wrath has anti zoo spelled all over it, then you have things like Keeper of the grove which can get a kill + board presense and transition into swipes.Pretty easy to hold of zoo.

If you are having that much prolbems you can also run claw and pyromancers even tho its not needed imo.
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