Prime ex. of why Pally hero power is useless

Posts: 6,445
-Compared to every other deck

Blizzard - I beg of you. Add charge to our spawns

http://i.imgur.com/47ZrA3k.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xutw6cu.jpg
Edited by Bodywrecker on 7/8/2014 8:53 PM PDT
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Posts: 334
I don't care if it's imbalanced or not thy need to add charge to our hero power to make Paladin 100% viable. Every other hero power does something the turn it happens. The only worse hero power on turn 2 is priest but only temporarily. The warlock hero power is grossly imbalanced but blizzard doesn't seem to care too much so why not paladin?
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Posts: 3,103
Once again people are looking at things in a void.
If one recruit is on the field for 10 turns how much damage does it do at how much cost?
Can you buff steadyshot/fireblast?
Can you rely on the right totem?
Is there any situations where heals are useless?
While it's a boring and unimaginitive hero power it's not that bad.
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Posts: 93
i think the hero ability is pretty bad.

While no, you can't buff steady shot, fireblast.

Yes you can rely on totems for the extra spell damage, a taunt, heal or 1/1

The fact is the impact of each hero spell can be seen on that very turn except for the paladins.

You can ping a minion with fireball
you can shield slam after armoring up and its also a heal
hunters 2 damage to hero every time
3/4 of totems have effects that make impacts on that very turn
warlock draws cards which is huge
priest heal which is huge
druid shields and pings the very same turn
rogues get a weapon that you can buff with deadly poison with 3 damage that turn. If no buff, you still do 1 damage.

While it is a boring hero power, it is always weak compared to others because there is simply limited impact on the turn you play it as apposed to the other classes.

Paladin has very limited early removals already, but to probably the weakest hero ability too? Oh, and the new nax card sucks as well since secrets can't be triggered on your turn, blizzard must hate paladins.

The hero power needs charge.
Edited by kidofcrash on 6/13/2014 11:15 AM PDT
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Posts: 4
06/13/2014 11:14 AMPosted by kidofcrash
i think the hero ability is pretty bad.

While no, you can't buff steady shot, fireblast.

Yes you can rely on totems for the extra spell damage, a taunt, heal or 1/1

The fact is the impact of each hero spell can be seen on that very turn except for the paladins.

You can ping a minion with fireball
you can shield slam after armoring up and its also a heal
hunters 2 damage to hero every time
3/4 of totems have effects that make impacts on that very turn
warlock draws cards which is huge
priest heal which is huge
druid shields and pings the very same turn
rogues get a weapon that you can buff with deadly poison with 3 damage that turn. If no buff, you still do 1 damage.

While it is a boring hero power, it is always weak compared to others because there is simply limited impact on the turn you play it as apposed to the other classes.

Paladin has very limited early removals already, but to probably the weakest hero ability too? Oh, and the new nax card sucks as well since secrets can't be triggered on your turn, blizzard must hate paladins.

The hero power needs charge.


Agreed. I think the community as a whole for the most part agrees with this. Give the little 1/1 charge and things will be much better for paladin.

I don't play control so I don't know how much this would benefit you guys really, but it could be huge for you too for all I know.

Anyway, add charge to pally power is definitely the idea I back strongly and hope they will implement eventually.
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Posts: 198
06/13/2014 08:46 AMPosted by Karasuko

Can you rely on the right totem?



Yes you can rely on totems for the extra spell damage, a taunt, heal or 1/1


Pretty sure he meant can you rely on getting the right totem, which you can't, 75% of the time you don't get the 1 totem you wanted.

1/1 with charge would be nearly equivalent to Mages power except with added bonus of you get a guy to stick around if you used it on opponents face, if all the recruits had charge, they'd also have to add "dies at end of turn" to their description.

The only way to make the recruits having abilities be fair is if the abilities were random, cause a 1/1 + fixed guaranteed ability weakens Shaman's power cause they've only got abilities cause they're not reliable, you'd need something like:

25% summon 1/1 plain recruit
25% summon 1/1 recruit with taunt
25% summon 1/1 recruit with stealth
25% summon 1/1 recruit with charge

but that would just make paladin power even more similar to Shaman. Otherwise if all paladin recruits were 1/1 charge, Shaman would need some sort of boost also to make the randomness of their totems abilities more viable.
Edited by Thungbard on 6/13/2014 12:47 PM PDT
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Posts: 201
Just make it a 1/2 or something.

1/1 makes it too vulernable, or maybe even make it give a minion +1/+1, since Paladins are all about buffs
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Posts: 334
What about changing the hero power to 2 mana give Uther Divine shield or just negate the first damage done to him if they don't want it to combo with blood knight.
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Posts: 129
1/1 with charge is way too powerful.

Why do you ask?

-card free secret test
-the buffable issue (see leeroy)
-card free divine shield breaker (to be fair mage has this)
-can charge and stick

This combination of features is way too much for a hero power.

Charge is one of the most powerful things in the game. Keep it on a card.

I sincerely doubt they will ever change the hero powers. (even warlock unfortunately)

We should be hoping for more synergistic cards. (like a warsong commander)
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Posts: 593
When the opponent has to spend a card to remove the recruit, or use a minion to kill the recruit, it's done it's job better than almost every other hero spell (except for shaman or warlock). Worst case scenario is that the enemy removes the recruit with their own hero power which is still good because it forces them to use 2 mana on that next turn.

When the enemy uses a minion to kill the recruit, that's one damage dealt AND damage prevented because the enemy minion wasn't hitting your face. If they use a removal card on it you win because you've increased your card-to-card ratio because you didn't spend a card on the recruit.

These are extremely powerful things that people ignore. Yes, it's the one hero power that can't see use on the turn it is used via damage dealt or prevented (and if I wasn't the first person to make that argument/correlation I at least came up with it on my own quite some time ago). That just gives it the illusion that it's bad - because the opponent has the opportunity to dictate how it gets used based on what they do on their turn, whereas the other hero powers get used as the user's discretion. But it should not be discounted that the recruits alter the opponent's moves and plans, and the fact that they have to play around the recruit is more powerful than people give it credit. Adding charge would flat out be OP - just think about how powerful aggro pally would become if recruits had charge. It would be an unstoppable deck and would dominate the meta with probably very little viable counter decks. I think the fact that the opponent can use the recruits to their own advantage in some scenarios (enrages, AoE requiring bodies ie. Cleave/UTH, Clerics and Acolytes etc.) is a valid trade off. I mean really, forcing a 3/2 on turn 2 to kill a recruit is 1 damage dealt and 3 damage prevented, that's Mage + Priest + 1. Can't argue with the value right there.

Since the paladin hero power is in it's unique place, I am not opposed to changing it up if it could be done. But the Paladin class as a whole would need a shake up because the class cards have the recruits in mind and ingrained in the intended play style (SoJ, BoM/BoK/BoW, Divine Shields etc.) Those class cards require bodies on board and when you take away the recruits, your only source of bodies is now cards, and pally card draw is already inconsistent and in a weird place. Giving the 1/1 recruits charge is too powerful, and changing it to something else completely gimps the class - most notably in card draw.

In short, the Paladin hero power can't be changed without a complete redesign of the class, which I can tell you is not likely to happen. I frankly don't find the hero power to be as useless as the consensus thinks, and I bet Blizzard has numbers to corroborate and because of those numbers they will not find the need to spend the resources necessary to undertake that large task. There are other more important things that Paladins need right now that rank in front of the design flaws of the hero power (consistent card draw and early removal to help against zoo or other fast aggro decks). I really hate the feast or famine nature of Divine Favor.
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Posts: 3,223
06/13/2014 05:23 PMPosted by Geryth
When the enemy uses a minion to kill the recruit, that's one damage dealt AND damage prevented because the enemy minion wasn't hitting your face. If they use a removal card on it you win because you've increased your card-to-card ratio because you didn't spend a card on the recruit.

These are extremely powerful things that people ignore.

Let us say all the scenarios above make the Paladin's hero power 1:1 with the other heroes. Okay, but what happens when your opponent clears your board with AoE?

The Paladin is at a clear disadvantage.
Edited by JohnKelly on 6/13/2014 7:18 PM PDT
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Posts: 266
The paladin heropower is the best heropower if both players are only using that. Enemy has to react to it at some point, otherwise its 1 extra damage each turn.

I've been trying to base the entire deck around the heropower. The idea is to use that button as often as possible and board clear every turn. Besides the regular remove with equality / consecrate / truesilver / hammer / pyro, i also have abusive sergeant / bgh and peacekeeper / kodo combo's. To fill the deck up i have 2 panda's to reuse those battlecries, faceless to be a pain, tirion and guardians because cant go wrong with those if you do nothing.

It obliterates control decks with too few threats. I played against some warlock, druid and mage controldecks and they didnt have enough power to kill me while reaching the end of the deck. At the end of the game i always have a huge card lead.

The plain 1/1 are weak indeed but eventually the enemy has to use cards to deal with them.
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Posts: 829
06/13/2014 07:17 PMPosted by JohnKelly

Let us say all the scenarios above make the Paladin's hero power 1:1 with the other heroes. Okay, but what happens when your opponent clears your board with AoE?

The Paladin is at a clear disadvantage.


Yep, which is why Avenge and Nuberian Egg are such a big deal. Other than our truly horrendous early game, the largest weakness with Paladins is our susceptibility to AoE. But with cards that actively punish an opponent for destroying weaker minions carelessly, our 1/1 recruits become an even better proposition.

Yes, they're not as ridiculously broken as Life Tap, but they're still quite good and have superb synergy with our class cards.
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Posts: 66
lol. Why do you guys even try how long have we paly players been asking for a simple hero power change and what does blizzard do, then nerf the paly class. Why keep asking for a change when it's obvious blizzard doesn't care.
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Posts: 185
The only change I can think of off the top is something that buffs the hero ability if you get more than one on the board at a time. Gain 1 attack on your minion if there is already one on the board.
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Posts: 789
lol...1/1 with charge. what are you smoking.
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Posts: 27
Paladin hero power is far from useless. It is arguably the most balanced of all hero powers.

The things directly effecting its perceived weakness is lack of synergy and other unbalanced hero powers.

Buffs are not direct synergy with the hero power. Imagine if Knife Juggler were Paladin Exclusive. That would be class synergy.

The best replacement for it I have seen is Give a Friendly Minion +1/+1.
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Posts: 6,445
06/15/2014 11:38 AMPosted by Kamahl
t is arguably the most balanced of all hero powers.


Right. And everything else is OP. Gotcha
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Posts: 3,223
@Kamahl: The reason why the power is perceived as weak is because it is a weak hero power. Anyone could easily make a deck that summons 1/1s all the time and have a useful power to boot.
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Posts: 302
So I am looking at OP's picture, and forgive me if I am wrong, but even with charge you couldn't win that anyway? It would only take off his armor and then he could hero power you next turn anyway.

Major problem with buffing recruit is that it does more the more turns it stays around. Druid can do 1 damage and get 1 armor for 2 mana. A single recruit can do up to like 60 damage over the course of a game, even more if heals are used for the same 2 mana.

Sure, they can get caught up in aoe, but so can the minions that a priest heals. Or totems that shaman gets. Recruit is very balanced. Probably wouldn't be so good with other classes but a constant supply of weak cheap minions is very strong for paladin considering their buffing options.
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