I need help...

Posts: 57
Okay, here's my situation. Shaman is my favorite class in Hearthstone as well as my strongest deck (both in composition and card availability), and I really want to climb the rankings with it. The problem is that no matter how I try, no matter what I adjust and add or subtract to the deck, I cannot get past Rank 13. Sometimes I can chalk it up to luck (damn it Lightning Storm RNG...), but more often than not I just flat out lose because I can't ever gain board control and when I can get it, it's immediately neutralized by something like a Flamestrike, an Unleash the Hounds, or it comes at such a high cost that I get outscaled 3 turns later. The bottom line is that I just can't seem to win, and I don't have the cards to make my other commonly played decks (Druid, Paladin, and Priest) strong enough to take into Ranked. I'll post my deck list here, can anybody give me some suggestions for making it stronger?

Earth Shock x2
Forked Lightning x1
Lightning Bolt x2
Acidic Swamp Ooze x1
Knife Juggler x1
Sunfury Protector x1
Wild Pyromancer x2
Feral Spirit x2
Hex x2
Lightning Storm x2
Earthen Ring Farseer x2
Chillwind Yeti x1
Dark Iron Dwarf x1
Defender of Argus x1
Spellbreaker x1
Azure Drake x2
Stampeding Kodo x1
Faceless Manipulator x1
Argent Commander x1
Fire Elemental x2
Ysera (of the 2 Legendaries I own, she seems to have more of an impact on my games).

Also, because I can see it coming, I have Unbound Elementals, but I don't run them because when I was using them they became immediate targets for Silence and Removal, so I was pretty much paying 3 mana to get almost no impact on the board and I also found myself throwing a couple of games by hoarding my Overloads until I had one of them in play instead of using them.

Anything constructive is greatly appreciated.
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Posts: 16
you need a bit more early board presence i would drop the forked lightning maybe for axe or argent squire and maybe try lowering your curve i went from 14-13 with my shaman to 10 adjusting for all the aggro by having fire ele as my only 6 drop. drop comander to a 5 drop and kodo to another 4 drop yeti/taz dingo
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Posts: 57
Well, the main issue I find with Argent Squire is you either get her on the board by 3 mana or she becomes a dead drop, but I can probably find/make something similar that I like more. The Forked Lightning is in there to try and help deal with rush downs, any thoughts on something I could supplement that with that might be less situational?
Edited by SliceAndDice on 6/20/2014 4:30 PM PDT
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Posts: 7
Hello

Shaman legend here.

Ysera is pointless in your deck. She is anti-tempo. You want board control and win the game by having it, playing ysera and nothing else on a turn makes you weak.

Spellbreaker, why? you have 2 earth shock.

Better replace farseers by unbounds or harvest golems. The fact you are saying they get removed is a good thing. If they have removal for it then OK, but at least they used it of your 3 drops and not on your bigger threats later on.

Ooze? Only if you encounter loads of warrior/rogues, otherwise i wouldn't run it.

Consider running a mana tide totem if you feel that you are running low on cards.

Play 2 argent squire + axe x1 + flametongue totem x2 for early game. Forked lighting is too situational, I don't like it.
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Posts: 57
Can I ask how you deal with getting Squires late game? Whenever they come up after turn 4 or so I find they accomplish absolutely nothing, which is why I'm hesitant to use them.

As for Ysera, what should I replace her with? I only have 2 Legendaries (Ysera and Alexstraza), from what you've said neither is good for a Shaman deck, and I'd rather avoid dropping a bunch of money on packs to fish for Cairne or Al'Akir.

EDIT: The reason I have a Spellbreaker is because I found myself in need of a decent 4-drop and I've run into quite a few situations where something needed silencing and my Earth Shocks had either both been used earlier or were nowhere in sight.
Edited by SliceAndDice on 6/20/2014 6:54 PM PDT
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Posts: 7
I mean squires isn't the best late game obviously. But you need to aggressively mulligan to get them. You could always try to put only 1 in the deck, but then depends on your playstyle. I find it nice to get a squire and flametongue early.

I prefer Alex over Ysera because she has a direct impact on the game, can be used both aggressively or defensively and is not RNG related. I've actually used Alex quite a bit but replaced her by al akir for burst.

Yeti is strong 4 drop, i'd run it over spellbreaker. 2 earthshocks and 2 hex are quite enough as removals as long as you don't waste them. (think that a squire that is flametongue/rockbiter is quite a strong removal.)
Edited by crk1337 on 6/20/2014 8:04 PM PDT
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Posts: 567
I'd definitely try adding Axe and Lava Burst in your deck, those things give you plenty removal. IMO Forked Lightning ain't bad if you got the Spell Damage -boosts active, when paired with Wild Pyromancer you've got pretty good anti-zoo combo running. All the better if you have Axe readied for weakened stragglers.

I'd also consider dropping Kodo and Faceless. Kodo is quite uncommon in Constructed (outside few Paladin decks) and Faceless is too much of a gamble in Midrange decks, it's potentially good against Control but virtually useless against Aggro.
I'd try Gadgetzan Auctioneer, I'm guessing some of your losses are coming from situations where you've been forced into topdecking after losing board presence?

Depending on what you're facing, dropping Argus for Sen'Jin might not be the worst idea, both Miracle Rogues and Zoo decks hate that 3/5 Taunt.

If you don't like running Argent Squires, you could try Shieldbearers instead. While they're unable to attack by themselves, 0/4 Taunt will buy you 1-2 Turns through early game. I'd still recommend adding at least one Flametongue, that Atk boost is too good to pass up.
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Posts: 57
06/20/2014 08:00 PMPosted by crk1337
I mean squires isn't the best late game obviously. But you need to aggressively mulligan to get them. You could always try to put only 1 in the deck, but then depends on your playstyle. I find it nice to get a squire and flametongue early.

I prefer Alex over Ysera because she has a direct impact on the game, can be used both aggressively or defensively and is not RNG related. I've actually used Alex quite a bit but replaced her by al akir for burst.

Yeti is strong 4 drop, i'd run it over spellbreaker. 2 earthshocks and 2 hex are quite enough as removals as long as you don't waste them. (think that a squire that is flametongue/rockbiter is quite a strong removal.)


Huh. Interesting, I might give Alex another shot then.

06/21/2014 12:08 AMPosted by ÄmJii
I'd definitely try adding Axe and Lava Burst in your deck, those things give you plenty removal. IMO Forked Lightning ain't bad if you got the Spell Damage -boosts active, when paired with Wild Pyromancer you've got pretty good anti-zoo combo running. All the better if you have Axe readied for weakened stragglers.

I'd also consider dropping Kodo and Faceless. Kodo is quite uncommon in Constructed (outside few Paladin decks) and Faceless is too much of a gamble in Midrange decks, it's potentially good against Control but virtually useless against Aggro.
I'd try Gadgetzan Auctioneer, I'm guessing some of your losses are coming from situations where you've been forced into topdecking after losing board presence?

Depending on what you're facing, dropping Argus for Sen'Jin might not be the worst idea, both Miracle Rogues and Zoo decks hate that 3/5 Taunt.

If you don't like running Argent Squires, you could try Shieldbearers instead. While they're unable to attack by themselves, 0/4 Taunt will buy you 1-2 Turns through early game. I'd still recommend adding at least one Flametongue, that Atk boost is too good to pass up.


I actually had Lava Burst in there for ages, I think I tossed it because I only ever used it for a deathblow or taking care of high-health targets, so it was rather situational.

The main reason I don't think I'll be dropping Faceless is because it's saved my !@# multiple times (if I had a pack for every time I've Faceless'd a Rag who then shot the original Rag in the face...) plus, the Faceless-Hex combo is too much of a giant flaming middle finger to just about every control deck that features a huge finisher, and I run into those often enough to warrant it (I'd say my Aggro/Control split is about 40/50 with those damn Miracle Rogues making up the other 10%).

Yeah, that's where I get screwed quite often. The lack of go-to card draw is one Shaman's drawbacks, though Loot Hoarder x2 seems to be patching that leak okay. Main issue I have with Auctioneer is from my experience, he's a little too niche because usually, if I don't play a spell with him to get an immediate draw, I don't get any out of him because he has a giant target over his head when he hits the field. Any thoughts on setups I could use to skirt that trouble at all?

I believe the reason I chucked my Flametongues a while ago was because I was pissed at how often I was having them stolen by $%^-*!@ Priests, but I did like running them and I think I might do it again.
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Posts: 567
06/21/2014 12:34 AMPosted by SliceAndDice

Yeah, that's where I get screwed quite often. The lack of go-to card draw is one Shaman's drawbacks, though Loot Hoarder x2 seems to be patching that leak okay. Main issue I have with Auctioneer is from my experience, he's a little too niche because usually, if I don't play a spell with him to get an immediate draw, I don't get any out of him because he has a giant target over his head when he hits the field. Any thoughts on setups I could use to skirt that trouble at all?


Loot Hoarder is kinda meh in Shaman decks (Thalnos is far better), I'd much rather take Gnomish Inventors instead. True, they're not on par with most 4 Mana minions, but if you treat them as 3 Mana 2/4 + 1 Mana for card draw they're alright. Turns into decent Taunt with Sunfury/Defender of Argus too.

Yeah, Auctioneer is definitely a high priority "soft" Taunt.
Best advice I can give you is try baiting removals with similarly threatening creatures: Unbound Elementals are excellent removal baits even if you don't have that many Overload -cards in your deck. Likewise Azure Drakes are bound do attract removal, 4/4 & Spell Damage is scary enough to warrant Fireball/Polymorph.
Another thing I aim to do is wait until Turn 7+ before I play Auctioneer, that way I'll have enough Mana for Auctioneer + spell on same Turn.

Or you can try entirely different route (I like to call this "UTH reverse"):
2x Violet Teacher & 1x Cult Master -> Get Violet Apprentices, play CM and suicide Apprentices into opponent minions for massive card draws.
This one has its risks too, but I can see it working in some matchups (haven't tried this myself though).

06/21/2014 12:34 AMPosted by SliceAndDice
I believe the reason I chucked my Flametongues a while ago was because I was pissed at how often I was having them stolen by $%^-*!@ Priests, but I did like running them and I think I might do it again.


Try adding one, I don't think you'll regret that :)
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Posts: 970
Unbound Elementals have an amazing unlisted use in shaman decks. They are high priority removal targets, and that is actually pretty obvious. When they can't be removed, they can single-handedly win games, which is amazing for a 3-drop. But as a 2/4 for 3 mana, they eat all the common 3/2s you run into and survive, or have to be combo removed (ie, spell + minion). What none of this tells you in clear words though, is that anything used to remove an Unbound Elemental is a card that can't be used on something else later.

A coined Unbound on turn 2 followed by Feral Spirits will win a game as an opening - not because the Unbound is going to do all the massive damage to the opponent over the course of the game, although it sometimes does do all 30+ damage by itself!, but because of what it takes to kill it. The health point is a critical value for early game - 4.

If you are going first, who can deal 4 damage on turn 3 without using a coin via one card? Warlock. And most times, it's actually two cards if they use Soulfire due to discard instead of Shadow Bolt. Shamans can lightning bolt with +1 spell power (Thalnos or hero power totem, it's pretty common). Warrior's Fiery War Axe is one short, need another damage from something. Priest can Shadow Word: Pain, but that isn't commonly run by better priests. Rogue has to 1 mana plus Eviscerate to combo kill it, so situational ability to deal 4 on turn 3. Hunter has nada. Druid has nada (no 1 mana spell power minions for Wrath to reach 4 damage). Paladin 4 damage is turn 4, Truesilver - they have NOTHING else to answer it aside from Equality combos. Mage can't deal 4 on turn 3 either by default without the coin.

If you read the previous paragraph, Unbound is an amazing three drop. Against most all classes, they have to burn the coin to remove it if you go first, they have to burn even more if you coin it out on turn 2 going second, whether you have Overload cards to follow up with or not! Coined Unbound followed by regular turn 3 Harvest Golem generally guarantees board against all but pure rush (which is currently shockadin and zoolock). Also, Harvest Golem benefits from the Shaman's Flametongue totem twice, so it has synergy with class cards. I prefer 2x Harvest Golem now over 2x Argent Squire, although two months ago, I swore by Squires. :) Blood Knights and no minions being alive to buff via Flametongue has caused me to drift away from her lately.
Edited by Ranilin on 6/21/2014 1:56 AM PDT
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Posts: 57
Well, thanks for the help guys. Hopefully the next time I say something in this thread, I'll be able to post the new deck from better ranks!

TO BATTLE
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Posts: 154
Hey there I just want to make two points on the argent squires and unbound elementals.

I added two argent squires to my deck and they have helped a lot. If i get them early, I control the early board against aggro decks. If i get them late, they pair nicely with flametongue, defender of argus and blood lust.

With the unbound elementals... the point is that they DO get removed as others have said. You can't keep everything and better that they get nuked over some other stuff that you would prefer stick on the board.
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