Stop crying about zoo, play better

Posts: 3,139
Judging by recent tourneys decks like Miracle rogue and handlock don't have much problem with zoo. Maybe if the peoples stuck at rank 20 tried different decks, adjusted strategys and GOT BETTER they wouldnt be stuck at rank 20 getting beatdown by Timmy playing his zoo deck.
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Posts: 25
To be fair both miracle and handlock can lose quite easily to a zoo deck with a decent draw. That's most of the issue. Zoo doesn't really have any terrible matchups. Obviously miracle and handlock are two of the harder ones, handlock being worse in my experience. The problem is that both of these decks need to draw well or they get bowled over, while zoo can get by with a decent draw.
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Posts: 4,278
06/27/2014 10:03 PMPosted by Pach
To be fair both miracle and handlock can lose quite easily to a zoo deck with a decent draw.


I can't speak for Miracle Rogue (I don't play it or Zoo that much) but Handlock is always favored. Yes, you can lose, but it's not a 50/50 proposition or anything close to that.

As far as "good draw" vs. "decent draw." That's somewhat true, but not the full story. Zoo has in general less variance than other decks. This is true of full Aggro decks and stuff as well of course. This means it's opening hand has fewer "bad" draws but also fewer "excellent" draws. On the other hand the increased variance of Control decks (in general) means that your bad draws are going to be really bad, but your good draws are going to be really good.

*shrug*

Just how it seems to me.
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Posts: 611
06/27/2014 10:03 PMPosted by Pach
To be fair both miracle and handlock can lose quite easily to a zoo deck with a decent draw. That's most of the issue. Zoo doesn't really have any terrible matchups. Obviously miracle and handlock are two of the harder ones, handlock being worse in my experience. The problem is that both of these decks need to draw well or they get bowled over, while zoo can get by with a decent draw.

If miracle gets a backstab plus agent it can wreck the Zoo synergy and destroy all his momentum.The 3/3 healer(forgot the name dammit) also trades 1 for 1 while getting the extra health.

Miracle has all the tools to pick apart the early synergy of Zoo, unless the Zoo player gets consistently good draws he loses momentum fast.
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06/27/2014 09:02 PMPosted by Timemaster
Judging by recent tourneys decks like Miracle rogue and handlock don't have much problem with zoo. Maybe if the peoples stuck at rank 20 tried different decks, adjusted strategys and GOT BETTER they wouldnt be stuck at rank 20 getting beatdown by Timmy playing his zoo deck.


People stuck at rank 5-10 where this deck currently dominates aren't held back due to issues with playstyle.

They're stuck there by the grind. I experienced it on my jaunt to legendary. You don't face unbeatable aggro-decks, you face the realization that this is a card game, and if they get a good/perfect draw, and you don't, you will lose. Luckily, it doesn't matter, as long as you win 2 for every one you lose, you will progress.

It's the realization that card games are not designed to be always won, even if you are entirely superior in every way, to your opponent.

Yes, in some games, zoo is simply unbeatable. Same with control, same with midrange. Only issue is that zoo wins via this method more often then the rest of the decks.
Edited by iAmE on 6/28/2014 2:14 AM PDT
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Posts: 60
Warlock has a 50%+ win rate against every single class. Something is broken when that is the case and it's not Handlock.
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Posts: 498
I dont think its OP just gets boring facing it all the time. Same with miracle
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06/28/2014 07:40 AMPosted by Thelcar
Warlock has a 50%+ win rate against every single class. Something is broken when that is the case and it's not Handlock.


Actually, I think it's the combination. Zoo and Handlock have very different positive matchups. So long as players switch between the two decks when they start facing more of [X] that would inherently raise the class' win-rate across the board.

However, since we don't actually have specifics on what cards/decks were involved in those wins/losses, we can't conclude anything. For the record though, I personally do think that Handlock is superior to Zoo in a general sense. Again, Zoo has some better matchups against certain decks than Handlock, but that's not the same as being "better."
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Posts: 375
The problem isn't that zoo is effective, the problem is that every counter for it requires 3 to 4x more dust to create. There's something inherently unbalanced with this.
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Posts: 347
Soulfire to face, Life Tap into Doomgaurd, charge face and win. Guess I just need to play better right?
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06/28/2014 01:52 PMPosted by Zephirus
Soulfire to face, Life Tap into Doomgaurd, charge face and win. Guess I just need to play better right?


Well, you could have more than 9 life, have a taunt, have an appropriate Secret, or win before their turn 7.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes "luck happens", but that's far from unique to Zoo.
Edited by Tsenzei on 6/28/2014 3:35 PM PDT
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Handlock NEEDS to draw moltens and taunts to win. With no taunts, the only chance to survive is to draw into a watcher+shadowflame or hellfire, which also delays the drake/giant plays by a lot.

That said, I find that paladin can out-aggro zoo most of the time, since it can afford to run board wipes while still maintaining heavy aggro.
Edited by Riv on 6/28/2014 3:35 PM PDT
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06/28/2014 03:34 PMPosted by Riv
Handlock NEEDS to draw moltens and taunts to win. With no taunts, the only chance to survive is to draw into a watcher+shadowflame or hellfire, which also delays the drake/giant plays by a lot.

That said, I find that paladin can out-aggro zoo most of the time, since it can afford to run board wipes while still maintaining heavy aggro.


Are you for real? I've beaten enough Zoos with Handlock without drawing a single Molten Giant. Handlock has many more options other than Molten Giants for 0-2 mana against Zoo. Watcher on turn 1(with coin) or 2 followed by an Owl to silence it completely wrecks Zoo as the Watcher can trade 2 for 1 at the very least and the Owl trades too. Than you have your usual Drake for turn 4, even if it gets less hp than standard Handlock play, followed up by a Mountain Giant on turn 5-6, depending on how many other cards you've played since the silenced Watcher. More options include drawing a Farseer/Watcher without the Owl but with Shadowflame instead to clear the Zoo's board than start dropping the heavy weights. Another option is Hellfire, similar to the Shadowflame option just without sacrificing a minion and not catching the Dark Iron Dwarves(Mortal Coil will finish them off though so no problem). I can go on and on and on, as there are many more options that don't involve Molten Giants yet end up in the Zoo player's momentum getting shut down by turn 4-6, before you're in critical hp range.

Same goes for other decks by the way, Zoo simply isn't that hard to deal with. You just need to understand how and why it works so you can stop it at the right places with the right tools. Obviously you need to have those tools in your deck, otherwise you're just screwed, but since these tools aren't Zoo specific if you don't have any of them than your deck is just plain bad.
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Posts: 77
I invite you to play miracle whitout backstab, Si7, deadly poison and blade furry vs zoo. You need all those cards to survive and have a chance to conceal auctioneer, which most likely you won't be able to, because you'll be dead before turn 5/6. Not to mention that miracle has 0 taunts, and you can't even sap doomguards ofc, so zoo can comeback from nothing, all the time.
Yea good matchup, better nerf miracle..[Kappa].
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Posts: 106
Bunch of nonsense here, it annoys me to a great extend. Against zoo you require to get about perfect draws turn after turn after turn or you're simply dead, regardless of class. There's little to play if you're already dead by turn 4/5 and haven't drawn a single answer yet whilst your deck is full of it. Especially if you don't have the coin. And even if you clear their freaking board 4 times with your own threats or AOE or what not, they'll just keep filling it up and up and up repeatedly - no problem whatsoever. Going first again zoo, zoo having the coin, just requires perfect draws. As we all know draws are fully decided by RNG, your chance of winning by drawing answers (of which there are plenty in the deck) is therefor very highly dependant on RNG. Zoo ruins this game, period. Oh and by the way, I have most my classes golden. It's sick to see how non-zoo takes a longer time, while any and all zoo took like only a week to get golden aswell as legend rank - win after win after win.
Edited by Coriiander on 1/14/2015 4:15 AM PST
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Posts: 288
Nice necro.

This thread was made when miracle was still a thing. It got nerfed hard, but zoo is arguably better than before (as is handlock).
Edited by MrTwopence on 1/14/2015 4:17 AM PST
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Posts: 1,174
06/27/2014 09:02 PMPosted by Timemaster
Judging by recent tourneys decks like Miracle rogue and handlock don't have much problem with zoo. Maybe if the peoples stuck at rank 20 tried different decks, adjusted strategys and GOT BETTER they wouldnt be stuck at rank 20 getting beatdown by Timmy playing his zoo deck.

It's not about win or lose. Zoo is just simply stupid. Really. It's not about win. It's more about good win rates - fast games combo.
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