Some thoughts from a male Hearthstone player

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Posts: 5,608
07/03/2014 06:34 AMPosted by Devils
...It's not really discrimination if there is actually an event to enter to people. From what that says I think everything has an 'open to all' tournament but a couple have a 'just women' tournament as well.

This approach makes sense to me; "the IeSF's policy matches that of chess competitions — where anyone can enter the main tournament, but there are also ones just for women in order to encourage greater participation".


And if there were a few side tournaments that were just men you can bet that would have been the headline. I actually was stunned they even thought it was a good idea to do a male only tournament for hearthstone but am equally offended they think doing a female only one is as good of an idea.
To be fair, I do agree there would have been more of a media frenzy.

That might be some amount justified though - the reasoning for those extra female ones are to encourage extra femals to participate. They don't need to encourage men to do so though really
Posts: 588

That might be some amount justified though - the reasoning for those extra female ones are to encourage extra femals to participate. They don't need to encourage men to do so though really


Wait, what? Why would females be more interested in a female-only tournament?

Both female-only and male-only tournaments are stupid. Stop trying to artificially manipulate the gender distribution. Let anyone play the game if they love it without arbitrary restrictions, and leave it at that.
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07/03/2014 07:01 AMPosted by Davidg37
Why would females be more interested in a female-only tournament?
Because they view Chess (or HS or whatever) as a male-dominated thing and wouldn't feel comfortable playing in a male-dominated tournament. It would be great if they ddin't feel that way but reality isn't as simple as that.

In the long run the female-only tournament would (in theory) build confidence and interest in the game for females to the point where you wouldn't need it anymore though.
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07/03/2014 07:01 AMPosted by Davidg37

That might be some amount justified though - the reasoning for those extra female ones are to encourage extra femals to participate. They don't need to encourage men to do so though really


Wait, what? Why would females be more interested in a female-only tournament?

Both female-only and male-only tournaments are stupid. Stop trying to artificially manipulate the gender distribution. Let anyone play the game if they love it without arbitrary restrictions, and leave it at that.


The idea behind female only tournaments for specific sports is usually to make sure that woman actually get as highlighted as they deserve which is often a problem in a male dominated sports scene, which I see is quite a respectable goal.

That being said it's never a good idea to have your main tournament open to just one gender, its just stupid. Even in chess the main tournament is open to both, though I imagine as this has became a big media covered story now things will change for the better and I hope Blizzard at least adds its voice, even if its to reiterate what's already been said by everyone else.
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Take out the smelly girls of Heartstone! I heard that they all have cooties.
Posts: 417
07/02/2014 10:02 AMPosted by Doomie
The IeSF has changed their event in response to the feedback they've received. The previously male-only tournaments are now open to people "of all genders." There are still some female-only events (which I happen to support).


This is the part of the conversation between us that you get a slap in the side of the head for being stupid.

double standards, are irritating. If you want this shi* to stop. Then you have to be against ALL segregation of gamers based on gender.

Remember you have no gender online until you GIVE yourself one and doing so does NOT entitle you to anything.
Edited by Spyke on 7/3/2014 9:15 AM PDT
Posts: 3,812
07/03/2014 07:12 AMPosted by masters66
Because they view Chess (or HS or whatever) as a male-dominated thing and wouldn't feel comfortable playing in a male-dominated tournament. It would be great if they ddin't feel that way but reality isn't as simple as that.

In the long run the female-only tournament would (in theory) build confidence and interest in the game for females to the point where you wouldn't need it anymore though.


Still seems silly if you ask me. We all get up in arms about a no-girls-allowed tournament but think it's cool to have no-boys-allowed tournaments at the exact same time because girls don't have confidence in themselves to play against the boys in the very tournament they were fighting to have access to.... O.o

Double-U Tea Effff...how about we stay consistent with our message here.
Edited by Connatic on 7/3/2014 9:19 AM PDT
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07/03/2014 09:16 AMPosted by Connatic
We all get up in arms about a no-girls-allowed tournament but think it's cool to have no-boys-allowed tournaments
There is a tournament boys can enter though. Before the recent change, the only tournament was male-only because they hadn't set up the woman's league yet.

Also this is kind of like complaining there's no "white history month". Men don't need a separate tournament to encourage participation, women do.
Posts: 52
Funny how they just swapped out male only tournaments and added in some female only ones in their place and that's apparently fine. Tournaments are suppose to be about who is the best player, why the hell does it have to care about your gender if you win or lose?

As always though, the double standards are just getting tiring.

Male only = Bad
Female only = Good

Also i can't state this enough. Women, Are, Not, A, Minority.

07/03/2014 09:22 AMPosted by masters66

Also this is kind of like complaining there's no "white history month". Men don't need a separate tournament to encourage participation, women do.


If women wanted to participate they would do so of their own free will. They don't need us to tell them "come join this tourniquet" or even encourage them to join any format at all that might not interest them. I'm guessing with your logic we would also need to encourage men to become nurses, teachers, social workers and any other female dominated profession.

Why? Seriously why? Just let people do what they want regardless of gender and stop trying to force "equality".
Edited by Guildenstern on 7/3/2014 9:32 AM PDT
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07/03/2014 09:28 AMPosted by Guildenstern
Women, Are, Not, A, Minority.
Except, In, Competitive, Esports
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07/03/2014 09:22 AMPosted by masters66
There is a tournament boys can enter though. Before the recent change, the only tournament was male-only because they hadn't set up the woman's league yet.


Well I think the point was lots of people were even against separate men's and woman's Hearthstone leagues.

I'm just saying there should be no issue to have a mens only league if there is also a womens only league. If that's wrong then there should be just one league with equal access. This is a computer game after all, not a real sport. Having the "Real" league and then mini "Minority" leagues just just sit well with men.
Edited by Connatic on 7/3/2014 9:33 AM PDT
Posts: 8,604
07/03/2014 09:28 AMPosted by Guildenstern
Funny how they just swapped out male only tournaments and added in some female only ones in their place and that's apparently fine. Tournaments are suppose to be about who is the best player, why the hell does it have to care about your gender if you win or lose?

As always though, the double standards are just getting tiring.

Male only = Bad
Female only = Good

Also i can't state this enough. Women, Are, Not, A, Minority.


The female only tournaments already existed. They chose to keep them to help female gamers get into the esports scene. If you bothered to read their announcement you would understand why they kept the female only tournaments and not write this ignorant post.
Posts: 5,608
07/03/2014 09:32 AMPosted by Connatic
07/03/2014 09:22 AMPosted by masters66
There is a tournament boys can enter though. Before the recent change, the only tournament was male-only because they hadn't set up the woman's league yet.


Well I think the point was lots of people were even against separate men's and woman's Hearthstone leagues.

I'm just saying there should be no issue to have a mens only league if there is also a womens only league. If that's wrong then there should be just one league with equal access. This is a computer game after all, not a real sport. Having the "Real" league and then mini "Minority" leagues just just sit well with men.
Just think of it as there is one main league, which is open to all. There is an extra league just for women though, to encourage their participation. This league, in the long run, might not be needed though.
Posts: 52
07/03/2014 09:33 AMPosted by Protekt1


The female only tournaments already existed. They chose to keep them to help female gamers get into the esports scene. If you bothered to read their announcement you would understand why they kept the female only tournaments and not write this ignorant post.


It's funny how many people have tried to argue there's no difference between a guy and a girl when it comes to hearthstone, yet as soon as the opportunity for a female only tourney for them pops up, it's seen as a "good way to get them into gaming". Didn't trip over yourselves at all.

Tournaments are suppose to be about who is the most skilled player, not what genitals you have under your pants. If all top 32 are guys, so what, they're the best players. If the top 32 are all women, again so what, they're the best players. It's not sexist for one gender to dominate a tournament, but it is sexist to think we need to split off a special tournament for one gender.
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07/03/2014 09:38 AMPosted by masters66
07/03/2014 09:32 AMPosted by Connatic
...

Well I think the point was lots of people were even against separate men's and woman's Hearthstone leagues.

I'm just saying there should be no issue to have a mens only league if there is also a womens only league. If that's wrong then there should be just one league with equal access. This is a computer game after all, not a real sport. Having the "Real" league and then mini "Minority" leagues just just sit well with men.
Just think of it as there is one main league, which is open to all. There is an extra league just for women though, to encourage their participation. This league, in the long run, might not be needed though.


So one league that is discriminating for no logical reason (seriously I read there reason and it is utterly horrible) and one that is actually fair and open. I am glad it took less then a week to solve half the problem but I suspect that the other sexist league will exist for quite awhile.
Posts: 5,608
07/03/2014 09:41 AMPosted by Guildenstern
It's funny how many people have tried to argue there's no difference between a guy and a girl when it comes to hearthstone, yet as soon as the opportunity for a female only tourney for them pops up, it's seen as a "good way to get them into gaming". Didn't trip over yourselves at all.
what? The whole point is that there shouldn't be a difference in performance / participation. But there is.

So to try and fix that they allow their to be one where females can more easily get the exposure etc to tournaments and encourage participation. Eventually it gets sorted and you can just have one league.

07/03/2014 09:41 AMPosted by Guildenstern
Tournaments are suppose to be about who is the most skilled player, not what genitals you have under your pants.
Yes, but sadly e-sports and gaming in general is not inclusive to women so they don't want to compete. Allow them to if they want but give them a 'safe' option to ease in, makes sense to me.
Edited by masters66 on 7/3/2014 9:50 AM PDT
Posts: 2,603
07/03/2014 09:50 AMPosted by masters66
07/03/2014 09:41 AMPosted by Guildenstern
It's funny how many people have tried to argue there's no difference between a guy and a girl when it comes to hearthstone, yet as soon as the opportunity for a female only tourney for them pops up, it's seen as a "good way to get them into gaming". Didn't trip over yourselves at all.
what? The whole point is that there shouldn't be a difference in performance / participation. But there is.

So to try and fix that they allow their to be one where females can more easily get the exposure etc to tournaments and encourage participation. Eventually it gets sorted and you can just have one league.

07/03/2014 09:41 AMPosted by Guildenstern
Tournaments are suppose to be about who is the most skilled player, not what genitals you have under your pants.
Yes, but sadly e-sports and gaming in general is not inclusive to women so they don't want to compete. Allow them to if they want but give them a 'safe' option to ease in, makes sense to me.


I would drastically argue there is a difference in performance. I can not possibly disagree with that any stronger. I would agree the participation rate is not as high but that's something that really needs to be subsidized but I can not disagree stronger that there is lesser performance.
Posts: 5,608
07/03/2014 09:54 AMPosted by Devils
I would drastically argue there is a difference in performance
Eh? That's exactly what I said, If i'm understanding your post right.

I said that there shouldn't be a difference in performance because there aren't biological reasons why men and women would be different at something like HS. There is undeniably a difference in performance though; most of the top players are men.
Community Manager
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One of our goals with eSports is to ensure that there’s a vibrant and also inclusive community around our games. We do not allow the use of our games in tournaments that do not support this, and are working with our partners to ensure they share the same goal. To that end, we’ve separately been in contact with IeSF and understand that they’ve updated their rules to make it clear that their Hearthstone tournament will be open to all players.
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07/03/2014 11:05 AMPosted by Zeriyah
they’ve updated their rules to make it clear that their Hearthstone tournament will be open to all players.


Thanks!!
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