Swipe

Posts: 1,873
The ban of all 1hp minions. But also, it can take out the tough 4hp minions at the same time.

The card needs a nerf, it's too much for it's cost. 3 damage to the initial target or make it cost 5 mana. Turn 4 it can be cast and most likely wiping your board. Combined with spell power, it's ridiculous. Innervate, Geomancer, Swipe. Pretty much a guaranteed board wipe at turn 4.
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Posts: 642
Yes, Swipe is a great spell. However, you can make a argument for the "OP-ness" of any Druid card by partnering it with Innervate. It's Innervate that's OP.

Also, a Druid can't get out an early big minion (i.e., a Turn 2 Yeti), a ramped legendary (i.e., a Turn 5 Rag) and do a board clear of those annoying 2- and 3-health zoo minions (i.e., a Turn 4 Bloodmage + Swipe) all with the same Innervate. And Druid's mana curves are usually high enough that, if they don't get an Innervate and/or WG in the first few turns, they're toast.

Edit: Also, I think that Mage/Druid hero power is more the bane of 1-health minions.
Edited by Atuan on 7/29/2014 10:29 AM PDT
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Posts: 469
Swipe is intentionally overpowered to make up for druids otherwise horrible removal.

It's intended to clear the board. Without it, druids would be zoo food.
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Posts: 3,042
almost every minion has more than one health
how is it any better than consec

that kills anything with 2 hp but doesnt kill bigger minions

this kills bigger minions but cant do !@#$ to 2 hp
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Posts: 1,259
Swipe isn't op. You're mistaking versatility for brokenness.

This is something a lot of people do, they feel like the versatility makes them too good, but that's not the case at all. A lot of Druid cards suffer in terms of raw value because of that versatility. For example, Druid class minions are often at-cost, while other class minions are undercosted by 1 mana or sometimes more (Savannah Highmane, I'm looking at you).

Swipe is a shadow bolt, arcane explosion combo, that does 1 less damage to one target, and must be played later than both those cards by 1 and 2 turns respectively. The ability to aim it gives it versatility, but it is not op.
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Posts: 681
Also want to point out that innervate is also far from broken. While it can give nice early tempo leads; its very poor from an economics standpoint. If you manage to make an efficient trade with whatever it is they summoned, you can get ahead pretty easy.
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Posts: 1,873
07/29/2014 12:51 PMPosted by DogofWar1
Swipe is a shadow bolt, arcane explosion combo, that does 1 less damage to one target

1 less damage?

Shadow bolt does 4 damage to a minion, just a minion.
Arcane explosion does 1 damage to all enemy minions, again, just minions.

Swipe deals 4 damage to the first target (even the hero) and 1 damage to every other enemy.

Shadow bolt costs 3 mana.
Arcane explosion costs 2 mana.
Swipe costs 4 mana.

So not only does it cost less than those 2 cards combined, it also can target the hero.

As for Druids removal, um.
Claw - gives hero 2 attack and 2 armour, the armour can be used to negate damage vs minions
Moonfire - 0 mana for 1 damage to any target, meh, but still can kill a buzzard
Starfire - hey, this one even lets you draw a card
Naturalize - 1 mana to kill ANY minion, yeah, thats horrible
Wrath - hmm, options, 3 damage to 1 target, or 1 damage and draw a card
Bite - like claw but stronger, and combined with your hero ability can take out a yeti, yep, bad
Savagery - combine this with bite and deal double the damage, wow, 8 damage for 5 mana
Starfall - more options, 5 damage to one target or 2 damage across the board

Yeah, poor druids, they have no cards at all to stall with until they can start laying down their beefy minions.
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Posts: 681
07/29/2014 03:55 PMPosted by Slipstream

As for Druids removal, um.
Claw - gives hero 2 attack and 2 armour, the armour can be used to negate damage vs minions
Moonfire - 0 mana for 1 damage to any target, meh, but still can kill a buzzard
Starfire - hey, this one even lets you draw a card
Naturalize - 1 mana to kill ANY minion, yeah, thats horrible
Wrath - hmm, options, 3 damage to 1 target, or 1 damage and draw a card
Bite - like claw but stronger, and combined with your hero ability can take out a yeti, yep, bad
Savagery - combine this with bite and deal double the damage, wow, 8 damage for 5 mana
Starfall - more options, 5 damage to one target or 2 damage across the board

[/quote]

What you fail to recognize is that all of the above removal is "soft" removal. I'm not saying it's bad overall by any means, I feel that druid disruption is fairly healthy; but there are no instant kill cards; this means that often you must make mana or card inefficient trades to utilize the above removal. Wrath, swipe and starfall are the only truly viable ones from the list.

Sure bite and claw can be solid; however that damage you take, though mitigated, erodes you over the course of a game and makes them less than ideal options in many situations. Savagery is just bad btw.. guaranteed to be inefficient from a card economics standpoint. Nourish, though effective is also only narrowly useful despite being broad in function; giving an opponent 2 cards for free can be deadly.
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Posts: 1,873
07/29/2014 05:01 PMPosted by Ironballs
Nourish

that gives 2 mana crystals or lets you draw 3 cards

Glad someone that doesn't know the Druid cards replies like he knows what he is talking about.

07/29/2014 05:01 PMPosted by Ironballs
but there are no instant kill cards

naturalize

07/29/2014 05:01 PMPosted by Ironballs
Wrath, swipe and starfall are the only truly viable ones from the list.


I didn't even have swipe in that list because I made the thread about it being OP. You didn't even read every post did you, let alone the threads subject.

The 2nd druid deck I made uses both claw and bite and is perfect early removal allowing me to save swipe for later. Then I pump out some monster minions, earlier if I have innervates, and I end up winning with that deck quite a lot. Swipe is OP, l2read.
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Posts: 32
Swipe is 110% no.1 completely gameruining!
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Posts: 57
How can swipe be OP as it doesn't fit its role nearlly as good as others aoe (pal is far better, mage is far cheaper) ? And if you take it to finish your opponent, it's the same (fireball or even mindblast which is cheaper). Maybe if you compare to pal hammer (as it does only 3 to 1 target and not 4+1) but this last card allow a draw to replace it whereas swipe doesn't. It helps a lot as the druid lost a card in hand not the pal.

Furthermore, every person i see saying druid cards are OP either speak of real late game combo (8+ mana cost) or ramp effect with innervate. If the first, how do you survive till that late game ? Doesn't it deserve some gain ? For the second, try to play without innervate and you'll see how average the druid cards are : they are nice but come 1 round too late to give you the game resulting in a draw at best. Without saying that using innervate to show them before force you to a 2/1 trade to make it even.
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Posts: 132
Nah, it's fine.

You can't just compare one class card with another, you have to compare all class cards together with the hero power for the comparison to be fair.
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Posts: 739
07/29/2014 03:55 PMPosted by Slipstream
Shadow bolt does 4 damage to a minion, just a minion.
Arcane explosion does 1 damage to all enemy minions, again, just minions.

Swipe deals 4 damage to the first target (even the hero) and 1 damage to every other enemy.

Shadow bolt costs 3 mana.
Arcane explosion costs 2 mana.
Swipe costs 4 mana.

So not only does it cost less than those 2 cards combined, it also can target the hero.


You can't compare 2 cards with 1 card. And if you want to, pls compare Eviscerate + Arcane E. with Swipe. 4 Mana, 4 Damage to any target + 1 AOE-Damage. Same thing.

Swipe is definetly not OP, if you want to kill one Minion, it's a weak Fireball, if you want to kill several small minions, it does only 1 AOE-Damage instead of 2 (Consecration). It's a Hybrid-Fireball-Consecration. There are situations where Fireball would be better, situations where Consecration is better, situations where Swipe is the best. Balanced!

07/29/2014 03:55 PMPosted by Slipstream
As for Druids removal, um.
Claw - gives hero 2 attack and 2 armour, the armour can be used to negate damage vs minions
Moonfire - 0 mana for 1 damage to any target, meh, but still can kill a buzzard
Starfire - hey, this one even lets you draw a card
Naturalize - 1 mana to kill ANY minion, yeah, thats horrible
Wrath - hmm, options, 3 damage to 1 target, or 1 damage and draw a card
Bite - like claw but stronger, and combined with your hero ability can take out a yeti, yep, bad
Savagery - combine this with bite and deal double the damage, wow, 8 damage for 5 mana
Starfall - more options, 5 damage to one target or 2 damage across the board

Yeah, poor druids, they have no cards at all to stall with until they can start laying down their beefy minions.


Claw is a bad version of Arcane Shot / Holy Smite because:
- You get damage, if the minions has more than 2 Attack
- You can't target around Taunt
- You can't buff the damage with Spell Power
- You can't hit one minion with Claw and another Minion with your Hero power.

Advantages of Claw:
- None

Moonfire: Wow, you can destroy a token, a buzzard or a novice enigneer for 0 mana... but the Trade was 0:1, your opponent should be happy. Only good in Malygos-Decks, can be good vs Rushdecks with 1 HP-Minions, totally useless vs Control-Decks, Miracle Rogue, Freeze-Mage etc.

Starfire: Weak Fireball and 2 more mana to draw a card, nothing special, nobody plays this card because it's to slow.

Naturalize: Horrible because +2 cards can be a big advantage for your opponent. Only good if you can destroy a big taunt with it to push for lethal for example, but vs Zoo, Rush-Decks, Miracle Rogue, Freeze Mage etc. it's totally useless.
Sap is much better, only 1 "draw" for the opponent and Deathrattle-Effects doesn't trigger (Cairne, Sylvanas for example).

Wrath: Standard Card, 3 Damage for 2 Mana without any special effect (like Frostbold) or a Shiv that can't target the opponent hero. Balanced.

Bite: Bad card at all. It's much weaker than Swipe with the same disadvantages Claw has. You can also say, it's a Truesilver Champion with only 1 Charge (4 Armor = 2x2 Heal) Nobody with a Brain plays this card.

Savagery: Probably the worst spell in the game, because Bite is so bad.

Starfall: If you choose one target it's a weak and expensive Fireball, if you choose the AOE it's an expensive Consecration without Hero-Damage. Can be good but is too expensive.

Druid doesn't have any OP-Removal-Spells, they are to weak or "choose one", but both options are weak versions of other spells. Wrath and Swipe are the only good Spells, because they aren't as expensive as the others. Starfall can be helpful, but should cost 4 Mana in my opinion to make it really good.

Force of Nature + Savage Roar is strong, Swipe and Wrath are totally fine, the rest is a bit to weak, very bad or totally useless.

I would be interested in your Rank with your OP-Druid-Spells--Deck ??
Edited by BeFoRe on 7/30/2014 7:38 AM PDT
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Posts: 1,226
Moonfire with Malygos --> Moonfire OP!!! NERF!
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