kel'thuzad in a druid deck?

Posts: 1,987
Well check this out.

I was playing a warrior - got KT down, he stuck.

Next turn - faceless, have 2 KT, and 2 other minions.

Warrior plays BRAWL - one of the Kel'Thuzad survives, and everything gets rezzed.

http://i.imgur.com/7TzV6cF.jpg

This is more than a Brawl fail. This is pure awesomeoness in action.
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Posts: 6,538
Just got one behind a taunt. Opponent had a clear board. Would kill taunt, POP!, kill taunt, POP!.

I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. This card is stupid good if your opponent has no hard removal for it.
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Posts: 203
08/21/2014 01:20 PMPosted by Bythedar
Just got one behind a taunt. Opponent had a clear board. Would kill taunt, POP!, kill taunt, POP!.

I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. This card is stupid good if your opponent has no hard removal for it.


Speaking of which I've played a few games tonight where first to KT wins. He's hard to remove as a druid. Should I run MotW to bring him in Black Knight/BGH range?
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Posts: 1,111
He's been the perfect new finisher for my Nerub'ar Brick Wall deck.

Hahaha.
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Posts: 91
Kel with Sylvanas is quite funny.
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Posts: 150
Test it yesterday he is amazing, work like the anti-fatty AoE that was missing to druid. Awesome with Sylvanna and Cairne. The opponent have to waste a turn removing it or lose the game.
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Posts: 1,987
First to drop KT wins only if you drop him with another minion on board.

Very often I play Loatheb on turn 5, Innervate + KT on turn 6, ram Loatheb into something and get it rezzed. Right there and then it's Game over.

We should just be VERY thankful that his attack is only 6, and not for example 7.

He totally craps on mages, warriors, pretty much any control deck.

How to COUTNER KT, any thoughts... ?

I heard that there is a bug where Rag fireball to KT's face kills him but he rezzes himself due to some weird "end of turn phase" interaction.

Also what happens if a pala does a board clear and kills your KT and other minions, do they all die or do they all rez???
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Posts: 48
Bro, I killed all my opponents minions and left Ragnaros to take out his KT. Guess what. The KT resurrected itself immediately along with the other 4 minions I killed. My jaw literally dropped.
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Posts: 60
Yup- I did that too. Was glorious. :p
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Posts: 6,538
08/22/2014 01:12 AMPosted by xBobz
Bro, I killed all my opponents minions and left Ragnaros to take out his KT. Guess what. The KT resurrected itself immediately along with the other 4 minions I killed. My jaw literally dropped.


That is interesting. I guess it is because both Rag and KT fire off their abilities at the end of the round. It still seems odd that KT would resurrect himself.
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Posts: 127
yeah i made a thread about this, its a bug that they're going to patch, KT shouldn't be rezzing himself.
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Posts: 968
This card is not good unless you can get him out the turn after a loatheb or something. When I play ramp druid and I play a sunwalker or ancient of war, they don't exactly stick around for a turn to trade. If your opponent can't immediately deal with these guys in some way, they probably are already on their way to losing because you will just plop more of those guys down/faceless them etc. KT just secures you the win you already had.

Alternatively, if you're up against someone like control warrior who just removes everything you play every turn, you won't have the opportunity to get value out of KT. The other thing is, if you're playing this in ramp that has big beefy minions, it's hard to trade them off. Let's say you play an ancient of war and it somehow sticks, you won't exactly trade with something that will kill it off so it can respawn.
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Posts: 1,111
08/22/2014 01:12 AMPosted by xBobz
Bro, I killed all my opponents minions and left Ragnaros to take out his KT. Guess what. The KT resurrected itself immediately along with the other 4 minions I killed. My jaw literally dropped.


According to Blizzard senior designer Ben Brode's twitter, this is a bug, so watch out for patch messages!
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Posts: 8
He works especially well if you have any beneficial death rattle minion on board. He also has pseudo-taunt as the opponent has to kill him before killing any other minions unless aiming for the face.

Won a match against a priest today. I had a loot hoarder and KT on = infinite suicide draws.
Edited by Descartes on 8/22/2014 6:36 PM PDT
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Posts: 434
08/22/2014 01:12 AMPosted by xBobz
Bro, I killed all my opponents minions and left Ragnaros to take out his KT. Guess what. The KT resurrected itself immediately along with the other 4 minions I killed. My jaw literally dropped.


Should be a bug to resu himself. Here is Ben Brode's input on that.

Is Kel'Thuzad supposed to rez himself if he gets killed by Ragnaros the Firelord's ability?
He should still trigger but he shouldn't Rez himself - Ben Brode

source: https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/502283137527726080

So does that mean, when he said that "He(Kel) should still trigger..." meaning - your friendly minions that died that turn will be resurrected but Kel will die at the end of the turn. So like, Kel's dying wish? :P

We know that it is not like this as of the moment. But this is the intended design right? Still not bad if this is the intended mechanic of Kel.
Edited by Raycab on 8/23/2014 12:11 AM PDT
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Posts: 257
08/22/2014 10:02 AMPosted by Astrohawke
This card is not good unless you can get him out the turn after a loatheb or something. When I play ramp druid and I play a sunwalker or ancient of war, they don't exactly stick around for a turn to trade. If your opponent can't immediately deal with these guys in some way, they probably are already on their way to losing because you will just plop more of those guys down/faceless them etc. KT just secures you the win you already had.

Alternatively, if you're up against someone like control warrior who just removes everything you play every turn, you won't have the opportunity to get value out of KT. The other thing is, if you're playing this in ramp that has big beefy minions, it's hard to trade them off. Let's say you play an ancient of war and it somehow sticks, you won't exactly trade with something that will kill it off so it can respawn.


I guess you didn't realize this but KT triggers every turn, what this means is if they kill a Loatheb or Sunwalker, they must also kill KT else the Loatheb or whatever which died goes back online. KT himself has 8 health and 6 damage, he's not a pushover and will most probably kill whoever attacks him. In your scenario where you have an ancient of war, and he sticks and you play the KT then you will probably win the game unless the opponent has like two executes or whatever, meanwhile you can use your 5/10 and 6/8 dudes to beat people up.

I dunno what world you live in, but if you're playing 6+ cost minions like Sunwalker or Ancients of War and they die immediately the next turn then you probably shouldn't be playing RAMP in the first place.
Edited by roslolian on 8/23/2014 10:22 AM PDT
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Posts: 968
08/23/2014 10:21 AMPosted by roslolian
08/22/2014 10:02 AMPosted by Astrohawke
This card is not good unless you can get him out the turn after a loatheb or something. When I play ramp druid and I play a sunwalker or ancient of war, they don't exactly stick around for a turn to trade. If your opponent can't immediately deal with these guys in some way, they probably are already on their way to losing because you will just plop more of those guys down/faceless them etc. KT just secures you the win you already had.

Alternatively, if you're up against someone like control warrior who just removes everything you play every turn, you won't have the opportunity to get value out of KT. The other thing is, if you're playing this in ramp that has big beefy minions, it's hard to trade them off. Let's say you play an ancient of war and it somehow sticks, you won't exactly trade with something that will kill it off so it can respawn.


I guess you didn't realize this but KT triggers every turn, what this means is if they kill a Loatheb or Sunwalker, they must also kill KT else the Loatheb or whatever which died goes back online. KT himself has 8 health and 6 damage, he's not a pushover and will most probably kill whoever attacks him. In your scenario where you have an ancient of war, and he sticks and you play the KT then you will probably win the game unless the opponent has like two executes or whatever, meanwhile you can use your 5/10 and 6/8 dudes to beat people up.

I dunno what world you live in, but if you're playing 6+ cost minions like Sunwalker or Ancients of War and they die immediately the next turn then you probably shouldn't be playing RAMP in the first place.


I have no idea what you're going on about. Of course they're not going to kill a loatheb or sunwalker and leave KT alive. That's just idiotic. I don't know if you play ramp druid at all but if your 6+ cost minions stick for more than a turn, then it means your opponent doesn't have a way to deal with them so you are probably going to be way ahead as if they can't deal with a sunwalker on 6, there's no way for them to deal with a sunwalker and ancient of war on turn 7 and at that point you probably won whether you played a KT or you played a boulderfist ogre.
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Posts: 203
If you play Force of Nature with KT there, do the trees come back to life after they die?
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Posts: 199
Well to examine the value of a minion, first step is always the vanilla test.

How good is a 6/8 minion for 8 mana stand for itself? An 8 mana minion is supposed to be 8/9, so you're three points of stat off (1.5 mana) with Kel'Thuzad.

But I think you'll agree with me when I say the 6 attack is much, much superior to 8 attack. So really, you're just one point of health short of the ideal 8 mana minion. My point is: 6/8 for 8 is a more than usable stat by itself.

Now let's compare the usage between the 3 common end game legendaries: Ragnaros, Cenarius and Kel'Thuzad:

At a disadvantage: Cenarius > Ragnaros > Kel'Thuzad
Cenarius gives you instant board presence and taunt; Ragnaros can hopefully kill something important; Kel'Thuzad just stands there, has no immediate impact to board, and can even be ignored if you're close to lethal.

Even board: depends on board size
When board size is large or when board is completely empty, Cenarius has the most impact; when the board size is small, Ragnaros has the most impact (that is if he hits minion instead of face); Kel'Thuzad stands somewhere in between.

At an advantage: Kel'Thuzad > Cenarius > Ragnaros
Kel'Thuzad has the distinct advantage here; Cenarius's stat boost is also impressive with a board advantage; Ragnaros... gets BGHed and all of a sudden your opponent's back in the game lolz rekt.

In deck archetypes:
Token: Cenarius > Kel'Thuzad > Ragnaros
Self explanatory. Cenarius both serves as a means of boosting existing tokens and acquiring more tokens.

Ramp Taunt: Kel'Thuzad > Ragnaros > Cenarius
Cenarius is just another taunt among a lot of taunts. When played on empty board, Kel'Thuzad is the most dangerous in this deck: the opponent needs to kill him right away with pressing urgency, otherwise you play a heavy Taunt like Sunwalker, and your opponent must kill Sunwalker AND Kel'Thuzad in the same turn, or that SW is never gonna die (btw I believe AoW comes back as a 5/5 but DotC should come back as 4/6 taunt). Ragnaros adds a win condition and instant damage to an otherwise completely passive deck.

Ramp Mid Range: Cenarius = Kel'Thuzad > Ragnaros
Cenarius is generally useful and also helps set up big Savage Roars. Kel'Thuzad helps get in good trades which is generally what mid range is about. It's a close one.

Overall, I think Cenarius is still the most consistent and flexible. Kel'Thuzad is the easiest to snowball with. I don't see why Rag should get anymore play, unless you're dealing with a lot of Freeze Mage.
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Posts: 968
The reason Rag is useful in druid is that it can be used as removal in a pinch. Druid has no good ways of dealing with things with high HP and Rag gives them the ability to snipe off something that they would otherwise not be able to deal with without committing a lot of resources. It's there to cover one of their class weaknesses.

The problem with KT is that you need 2 conditions to be met to get value out of him or else you're just playing him as an 8 mana ogre. First you need to have a board presence and second your board presence needs to be able to trade with opponent's board and die. When you play at high ranks, people don't just ignore !@#$ you have on your board and go for your face. If there's a trade to be done, your opponent will make that trade so when your turn comes, there isn't a trade to be done and KT is again not worth playing and stuck in your hand.

When your opponent leaves something up, it's because they can't kill your minion on that turn which means on your turn, your minion probably isn't going to be able to kill itself off either so no KT value. For instance, opponent has a yeti and you loatheb, yeti can't trade with loatheb so he goes face. On your turn, you can't trade loatheb into anything that will kill it so if you play KT and hit the yeti you end up with a 5/1 loatheb and KT. If opponent has an answer to KT, then it's easy to remove KT and 5/1 loatheb together. If opponent has no answer to KT, then you won but would probably have won with any other big drop they can't deal with.
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