Shaman's Basic Deck too weak?

Posts: 2,565
09/17/2013 04:06 PMPosted by Cronstintein
Even with all the unlocked basic cards I find shaman underwhelming. It's super annoying that all the removal spells are elite unlocks. 20-30 packs in and all I have is one lightning bolt and one lightning storm for removal-- not enough to build a deck with at masters level.

You don't really need lightning bolt to start off. Definitely grab two lightning storms.
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All of the basic decks are really bad. Interestingly, you have all the tools you need to make a good deck with basic cards, but the basic decks they give you are quite subpar.
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Posts: 8,622
08/18/2013 10:27 PMPosted by Chillbro
Although if blizzard wants to balance the deck around the insane windfury+bloodlust combos, I'm not sure Thrall will end up very pleasant to play, and will probably be very gimmicky.

I'm at 3 health. 1 Minion on the field, Gruul.

Gruul at 9/9 on the first turn I get to attack. Opponent has no Taunt.

Windfury on Gruul. Rockbiter Weapon on Gruul. Bloodlust. Suddenly, he's a 15/9.

Game over.
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09/19/2013 02:15 AMPosted by Bayushi
Although if blizzard wants to balance the deck around the insane windfury+bloodlust combos, I'm not sure Thrall will end up very pleasant to play, and will probably be very gimmicky.

I'm at 3 health. 1 Minion on the field, Gruul.

Gruul at 9/9 on the first turn I get to attack. Opponent has no Taunt.

Windfury on Gruul. Rockbiter Weapon on Gruul. Bloodlust. Suddenly, he's a 15/9.

Game over.


I've been saying for a while that if/when they nerf Rogues, I think you'll see an exodus of players going to Shaman as they seem to be stronger than the other 7 classes. Shaman's not as bad as Rogue in its current state, but I suspect you'll need to see a nerf. In particular, Windfury needs a strong kick, it's too powerful for being so cheap. I think the net result will likely be an increase in the mana cost of Windfury; if it was 5 mana like Blessed Champion, combos like this would still be possible, but not as easy.

If they nerf Rogue and Shaman, I think you'll see a fairly even playing ground amongst the classes, with perhaps Warriors and Priests still needing some type of nerf (one of the designers hinted Warriors might be getting more draw power).
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Posts: 558
08/19/2013 03:23 PMPosted by soulzek
Shaman is nigh-unplayable until you unlock Lightning Storm.

I think Shamans are the weakest class until you start getting some of there Commons/Rares/Epics.
They only have like 2-3 good basic cards. That's counting Blood Lust and Fire Elemental.
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Posts: 1,063
I've noticed this too. I was learning the various classes with the basic decks and basically rolling through the AI with each until I took at stab at the shaman.

I get stomped and think "OK, maybe I just got hugely unlucky with my draws, or I'm missing something here." But then I play game after game getting stomped each time. I mean, I'm not expecting starter decks to be amazing, but I would expect them to be on par with other starter decks against the AI opponents!

I just feel like most of my cards are too weak, and I end up in a state of placing a totem and just playing whatever I draw each turn because it's the only way to slow down the inevitable victory of the opponent. I mean, I could see some powerful moves coming down if the stars align correctly and you get an opening to take advantage of rock biter and windfury or something, but even if that does happen you just blow your wad and the opponent then proceeds to just wear you down.
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http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#47:2;76:2;77:2;151:2;174:2;256:2;270:2;390:2;434:2;435:2;491:2;502:2;519:2;604:2;611:2;

Spells:

(1) Earth Shock x2
(1) Rockbitter Weapon x2
(2) Flametongue Totem x2
(3) Hex x2
(5) Bloodlust x2

Minions:

(1) Stonetusk Boar x2
(2) Novice Engineer x2
(3) Razorfen Hunter x2
(3) Shattered Sun Cleric x2
(3) Ironfur Grizzly x2
(3) Silverback Patriarch x2
(3) Wolfrider x2
(3) Raid Leader x2
(4) Windspeaker x2
(5) Frostwolf Warlord x2

Cheap cards to get:

(2) Ironbeak Owl x2
(2) Dire Wolf Alpha x2
(3) Acolyte of Pain x2

Not-so Cheap cards to get:

(2) Knife Juggler x2
(3) Feral Spirit x2

Removals:

(1) Earth Shock x2
(1) Rockbitter Weapon x2
(1) Stonetusk Boar (if buffed) x2
(3) Wolfrider x2
(3) Hex x2

Yes, that is 10!!! removal spell in the deck, plus If you have some Ironbeak Owl and Knife Juggler...

#EDIT: Oh, and don't forget the Fire Elementals! A 6/5 minion for 6 mana with a built-in Lightning Bolt. Replace the Windspeaker for them!

Happy B'lusting!
Edited by Aggrostemma on 10/16/2013 3:53 AM PDT
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Posts: 87
As a new player, I came here wondering what I was doing wrong. After leveling up a few other classes to 10 against the AI, I'm just getting demolished with the shaman.

I have no good minions. I see how the buff spells are supposed to work together, but I can never get anything rolling. The only good actual minion I have is the frostwolf warlord, and it's pretty dicey to get enough other things on the board long enough to get him buffed up properly upon playing him. And like someone else said, I don't think I have any card that costs more than 5. That's pretty harsh going up against 7s.

I see now that I can rebuild a deck for him with some better minions, which is good. I've been leveling against the paladin, and he has comparable cheap buff spells but can play way better minions to put them on. Stormwind Champions eat my lunch.

I guess I'd just suggest making the newbie experience better by tweaking the starter deck to include more minions and less spells. I hate staring at a hand full of buffs and nothing to put them on.
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Posts: 12,498
As a new player, I came here wondering what I was doing wrong. After leveling up a few other classes to 10 against the AI, I'm just getting demolished with the shaman.

I have no good minions. I see how the buff spells are supposed to work together, but I can never get anything rolling. The only good actual minion I have is the frostwolf warlord, and it's pretty dicey to get enough other things on the board long enough to get him buffed up properly upon playing him. And like someone else said, I don't think I have any card that costs more than 5. That's pretty harsh going up against 7s.

I see now that I can rebuild a deck for him with some better minions, which is good. I've been leveling against the paladin, and he has comparable cheap buff spells but can play way better minions to put them on. Stormwind Champions eat my lunch.

I guess I'd just suggest making the newbie experience better by tweaking the starter deck to include more minions and less spells. I hate staring at a hand full of buffs and nothing to put them on.


While I agree with your statement of the starter deck being disappointing, I think most of the starter decks are in this boat.
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Posts: 87
10/17/2013 11:21 PMPosted by Sar
While I agree with your statement of the starter deck being disappointing, I think most of the starter decks are in this boat.


After looking at what I can put together from scratch in a custom deck, you're definitely right. But at least I can reliably beat the AI with most of the other classes' starter decks. Warlock was tricky, but it still is a workable deck. I think I went like 1-10 with the shaman starter deck after playing 5 or 6 of the other classes up to level 10. I guess I'll find out if any of the remaining classes have starter decks as weak.
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10/18/2013 01:00 PMPosted by Rasmfrackn
While I agree with your statement of the starter deck being disappointing, I think most of the starter decks are in this boat.


After looking at what I can put together from scratch in a custom deck, you're definitely right. But at least I can reliably beat the AI with most of the other classes' starter decks. Warlock was tricky, but it still is a workable deck. I think I went like 1-10 with the shaman starter deck after playing 5 or 6 of the other classes up to level 10. I guess I'll find out if any of the remaining classes have starter decks as weak.


I think the basic set of cards can make a solid deck, especially at level 10. But the combination of what they put into the starter decks is rather sub-par.
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Posts: 1,446
shaman starter deck very very weak
/signed
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Posts: 1,351
Thanks, Aggrostemma, I'm having some amazing success with your shaman deck (on 1-star gold right now). Very happy, since earlier today I couldn't win a single match on my shaman :(
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Posts: 1,088
The starter deck's performance is just a symptom. It's not that the starter deck sucks, it's that the basic card list is weak for the current meta.

I'd say Earth Shock is far more important than any other non-basic card for a new Shaman player. It's also a common, so it's not too much of a grind to get.

Also, Flesheating Ghoul is the #1 beater in most of my Shaman wins. In fact, he's my favorite card in the current meta for a few of my decks.
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Posts: 952
hey sorry if it's been mentioned, but why play the basic deck?

is there a point?
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Posts: 98
You must start somehow...

New players, especially those who don't spend real money are restricted to the basic deck.
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Posts: 1,628
When unlocking cards, I found the Shaman AI to be the biggest pushover while the Hunter was really strong to play against.
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Posts: 559
Basic shaman deck pretty unplayable until you get good cards, then it becomes god tier.

Play a hunter deck to get your wins and then get the cards required to make a stroong shaman deck.

Doubt they'll be buffing us any time soon either.
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Posts: 62
In my experience, it is. Shaman needs some kind of AOE spell to take out people who like to zerg rush in the early game. It's especially difficult to keep up with someone who zergs and also gets to go first. Feels like most other classes have at least some kind of AOE spell while shaman has none, at least in the basic deck.

One solution might be to buff wind fury. Make it cheaper to use, maybe make it add HP so dishing out wind fury on low HP minions doesn't seem like such a waste. At the moment, I don't want to wind fury a low HP minion because it'll probably be dead after the first attack.

Also, the spell power totem seems a little worthless with the basic deck, I'd rather see a totem that boosts the HP of my minions.
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