Holy wrath is just garbage....

Posts: 315
Title says it all, not worth a random draw that could give you nothing and a little damage/decent damage for 5 mana. Under most circumstances it seems more worthwhile to have drawn a good 5 drop/spell that you can use instead of a 5 cost card that may give you something you don't need.

I think something like, deal target enemy creatures power to target enemy (the target could be itself) would be much more interesting for a five cost card.
Edited by Zargash on 8/21/2013 3:57 AM PDT
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Posts: 313
Hi!

Yeah the card is pretty bad. The cost is simply too high for the randomness. I'm not completely sure if you have to pick the target before you draw the card, but if that is the case it's even worse. If you could see how much damage you get you might be able to kill a certain Minion with it.

One way to make the card a bit better is for it to give reduced cost to the drawn card if the spell manages to kill a minion. Personally i think it should be replaced with completely different kind of card as the mechanic is just too unreliable.

Funnily tho, you can do 20 damage with it if you draw Molten Giant at full health. :)
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Posts: 901
08/21/2013 06:29 AMPosted by Typoko
Yeah the card is pretty bad.


It is one of the worst cards in the game!!! The card has no utility. In a high mana cost deck you wont use it because it is too weak and in low mana deck it doesn't work at all.

Because of the fact it is random... I would set it the cost to 4 because most cards in a deck are 3 cost. You might get a 1 card or a 7 one but having a second hammer more random will be good.
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Posts: 16
Paladins should call Wisps Wiffs because that's what they are with Holy Wrath.
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Posts: 1,500
I rather have it deal a X base amount of damage split between the number of minions on board. Currenty Holy Wrath is too RNG for my taste.
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Posts: 829
I think the idea behind the high cost is that it's both milling (drawing another card) as well as the DD component. However, given the way mana curves work in hearthstone, it generally is going to be worse than just putting a Hammer of Wrath in a deck, which gives the same milling as well as a consistently decent damage amount for a lower cost.

If there were more ways to control draws in Hearthstone it might be an excellent card, but as it is the cost makes it near useless.
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Posts: 901
Let's take a look of how random works: assasinate rogue card vs deadly shot hunter card. 5 vs 3 mana cost. The same thing here... It should be a 3-4 mana cost compared to the starfire.
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Posts: 35
I have my reservations about holy wrath, but I'm giving it some more time before I declare it crap.

Think that the average cost card in a paladin deck running it is close to 4. Then it reads (on average of course) "Deal 4 damage and draw a card", which is decent for 5 mana.

I think if you reserve it ONLY for dealing damage to the other hero it can work out nicely for you. Nothing like gambling to deal 6-8 damage to the opponent for 5 mana.

Also:

Run Holy Wrath + 2 copies of each of the 3 giants = 10 - 20 damage and a card for 5 mana.
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Posts: 5,573
Giants update their mana costs even if they are in your deck, so generally by the time you can cast holy wrath they will deal significantly less damage than their base cost.

Which is not to say you couldn't get a decent hit for them, but I don't think that gamble is worth clogging up your deck with six giants.

Maybe it could combine tracking with its current effect. Show you the top three cards, you pick one, you get that card and deal damage based on it.
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Posts: 99
I agree the card needs work however you van pick you target and it has helped me in a few clutch moments. I agree either the card could use 1 more dmg or lower the mana cost by 1 and I think it would be a happy balance.
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Posts: 35
I want to try it in a control deck with Mana Wraiths and Venture Co Mercenaries, as well as the bigger Paladin spells, but I don't have the Avenging Wraths or Lay on Hands to try it yet.

But yeah, in its current state it simply doesn't seem to be a great card.
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Posts: 704
Sometimes they just develop duds, and other times you just have to wait till it's inserted into the right deck. It's far too early to box anything up and the beta will be sure to force item adjustment. A possibility could be to draw multiple cards. You then select one and the other are bottom decked or deck shuffled.
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Posts: 394
Holy wrath is bad, agree.

My fix suggestions are following:

1) Allow player to cast the drawn card for half mana cost (allows casting 10 mana card for 5, would work in any scenario) AND keep the current effect & mana cost

or

2) Lower manacost to 3

or

3) Deal damage as well as restore health on paladin for current effect & mana cost

or if eventually (on expansion) COMBO cards are something other classes might see as well...

4) Add COMBO effect to the card, which returns the Holy Wrath back to your hand if you cast something before it...then again that's rogue only, so scrap this one. :>
Edited by Artifex28 on 8/26/2013 6:02 AM PDT
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Posts: 6
Holy wrath is not excellent but it's definitely not garbage. Paladin already has Avenging Wrath, Hammer of Wraft, Consecration as damage dealing spell. Add to that list Repentance and a better version of Holy Wrath and Paladin would have a way to good control potential from spell.

It's designed right now to not be played in a low cost cards deck and be able to just get +spell power and kill the opponent hero better than a spell damage dealing mage deck could ever do.
They need to balance decks for a class as a whole. I agree that compared to Hammer of Wrath or avenging Wrath or Consecration it's not as good but if you already have all the above cards it still offers you more spell damage that can target the hero champ or minion... we all know where that may lead us.

Everyone needs to stop looking at every class spell card by themselves one by one to compare or atleast consider multiple context such as weird aggressive deck, etc.
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Posts: 616
Well, the fact is, nobody plays it, which isn't a good thing for a class rare. Aldor peackeeper isn't that good either imho. Only situationally useful.
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Posts: 64
I don't play paladin so my opinion is invalid, but I would say that, because it scales as it does, it's the type of card that, were it any better, would always played / overpowered. The fact that it is useless for so much of the time according to people here means it's situational. If it can be shown that there is actually zero situations where it's good, even in a top heavy deck for example, there could be reason to change it. But beware making this sort of card better.
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Posts: 953
I think at 3 mana it's a decent option. It cycles your deck and can ping DS or low-health minions. And it becomes fairly decent burn if your average card his 4+ cost.
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Posts: 394
09/01/2013 04:43 PMPosted by Andromalius
Well, the fact is, nobody plays it, which isn't a good thing for a class rare. Aldor peackeeper isn't that good either imho. Only situationally useful.


Aldor Peacekeeper is one of the best 3 mana cards in the game. I always carry two of these in my deck.

You rarely find a card that so often turns the game in your favor, getting you at least one card advantage. (Aldor Peacekeeper will be able to kill the creature he just turned 1/X, forcing player to react)
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Posts: 195
I'll agree, it's not a worthwhile card to use.

I've been playing around with it a little and every time I use it I end up doing 1 damage for 5 mana and drawing a Blessing of Might or something. It's frustrating.

The reason I want to like it so much is because my Paladin deck really relies on getting Consecrate, so draws are good, but at 5 Mana it's just too expensive.

3 Mana and I think it would be good, random damage+draw shouldn't cost as much as consistant damage + Draw (Thinking Wrath). Yes you could potentially do 20 damage If you happen to rock a Molten Giant out (I'm assuming, never seen it happen) but that would be broken even if it was 5 mana
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Posts: 1,896
In order for this card to be used well it requires you to keep track of every card you played and every card you still have remaining to calculate the worst it can do and the best it can do depending on the cards you have remaining. This way you can plan around it. A very difficult card to use correctly.
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