Does this seem a bit overpowered?

Posts: 186
07/27/2014 07:19 PMPosted by iAmE
Honest question:

Handlock by turn 6 I generally have 2 4/10 drakes, taunted, and a couple giants on the field. And complete board control

As a ramp druid I generally have two 4/6 taunts on the field by turn 6.

How do you deal that? 'Specially when you realize that none of these decks play anything lower then 4 damage, so you can't draw anything via cleric. You have no removal for any of these cards, and I have plenty of removal left to destroy any buffed card you play.


Handlock is a terrible match-up for priests, granted I don't play at the high ranks, but if I were to meet alot of them I'd add an additional SW Death to my decks or BGH again. It's the one deck as a priest my current deck can't deal with consistently.

The turn 2 Yeti is annoying but can be dealt with, my priest decks run enough minions to handle it coupled with heals. The thing I hate about druids is Trees+enrage for 14 damage from an empty board.
It sucks grabbing board control, and having totally outplayed a druid to be killed like this. Combo's exist, but priest is the only class that doesn't have a 2 card high damage combo from an empty board (except maybe Velen + Mind Blast but Mind Blast is a dead card entire game). If we had one, even at 10 mana, you'd see alot more priest wins.

Priest is good at board control, and making good trades with minions coupled with heals but we lack a finisher though, divine spirit/inner fire is so unreliable and tends to generate dead cards in your hand, which you can not afford at all.
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Posts: 2
Problem being that, with some combinations like these for the Priest being so overpowered, there's actually not much deck variation with this class. It's basically like this:

Step 1 - Get a minion out

Step 2 - Buff minion

Step 3 - Blast away until you win

With options on being able to do this to Lightwell, which heals a random ally at the end of every turn for 3 hp, get one of those out, buff it loads, copy it or w.e and you have 6 healing every turn plus stupidly powerful minions at mid-game. I'm all for praising people who manage an awesome play that lets them get something strong out, but priests have it handed to them on a silver platter. Combine this with their various steal cards (why do they even have these?), Priest is far too op in my opinion.
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Posts: 2
i can tell you what is OP that when a priest takes my minion over with 10 crystals a minon with 10-9 that i powerd up. and priest just takes it over when i was wining with 25-12 UNFAIR !@# HELL
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Posts: 71
08/31/2014 12:15 PMPosted by DCNL89
i can tell you what is OP that when a priest takes my minion over with 10 crystals a minon with 10-9 that i powerd up. and priest just takes it over when i was wining with 25-12 UNFAIR !@# HELL


"Waaaah! I was winning and then I wasn't! That's not fair!"

It is completely fair. That's how card games can be. Everything's going great, then you blink and everything you love is on fire. Sometimes that just happens, but in this case it was kinda your own fault.

You overextended by heaping buffs on one creature, then when it gets Mind Controlled you whine about the card being unfair. Mind Control costs 10. It costs 10 because it has a very powerful effect (and was considered unbalanced at 8). Like many spells with high casting costs, it can flip a whole game if an answer isn't on hand.
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Posts: 3,940
08/31/2014 12:15 PMPosted by DCNL89
when i was wining with 25-12
Life totals are not scoreboards.
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Posts: 65
Priests are op,end of discussion....
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Posts: 2
So I've fully analyzed this!

DS is two Mana
PW:S is onw Mana
LS is a 5-5 Minion worth four Mana
The Priest has 4 card drawing spells/Minions. Keep in mind getting down a Cleric round 1-2 almost always gives you at least 1-2 cards because of most 1-2 Mana minions don't have 3 dmg and/or charge.
They can also have Temple enforcers for six Mana which give +3 health, Plus Stormwind champions with their +1 to health and attack are unlocked by default.

Then he has the card drawing minions from the neutral deck. There are plenty of minions that give cards draws already unlocked by default when you start the game.

As simple as getting rid of Clerics, Light Spawns and any taunts, and the Priest having 4 instant kill cards (Shadow Word: Death/Pain), Priests, along with their hero power, are hard to kill early game. All they need is to soak up the damage with light minions, get draws and heal and wait till late game.

Now this is being extreme, I know. But an example. At ten Mana they can place down the light spawn, and still have enough for a six Mana taunt. Then next turn they add the 4 health to LS with PW:S and double it twice with DS and alone they have a 28-28 minion.

That's not it however. Inner Fire turns the minion's attack to match their health. IF they had say, Malygos which is a Legendary Dragon card, 4-12 and +5 Spell Dmg for nine Mana. I have seen this happen at least twice I believe (may have been another Legendary). Inner Fire is one Mana, Malygos is 9. So in two turns with luck, You could have a 48-48 card. A lot of Legendary cards have least 12 health too.

It is, from my experience (correct me if I'm wrong), the only class that has multiple ways to 1 K-O! you with a single minion. That is why the priest is slightly overpowered.
Edited by HoloTheWolf on 9/8/2014 1:24 PM PDT
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Posts: 189
The problem is that Divine Spirit is a DEAD CARD if you don't have the right minion on the board. There are following minions that are counted as dangerous with divine spirit/inner fire

Deathlord M:3 2/8 with an negative deathrattle.
Turtle: M:4 2/7 blank
Mogu'shan Warden: M:4 1/7
Baron Rivendare: M:4 1/7 and doubles deathrattle
Stormwind Champion: M:4 2/5 with charge
Feugen: M:4 4/7 and deathrattle
Stranglethorn Tiger: M5 5/5 with stealth.
Every minion after 6 mana with more than 6 health and no more than 6 attack at the beginning.

I doesn't add Shade of Naxxramas, since you need at least 3-4 rounds until it is at least near a deadly combination

The problem is with all of these combinations: UNTIL YOU HAVE ALL THE NECESSARY CARDS YOU HAVE A DEAD HAND.
It is the same as if this cards simply do not exist: you don't can combo them elsewhere easily. So if you draw 2x divine spirit but don't have an inner fire, you don't have these cards, since these require an
Because of the gimmicky of these cards and because you have a negative winrate with an divine spirit/inner fire deck if you only use it on cards that you can buff to oblivion. Yes if you pull it off, you have a real blast to oneshot somebody, but that you have the right card on the field, undamaged that can already attack and these combination on the hand does not happen very often.

I also run an inner fire/divine spirit-deck; it is far from competitive, but i use it on cards like deathlord. For example: i had an match where i didn't draw Inner fire or crazed alchemist, but i had an undamaged deathlord on the field. player (zoo) played a lot of minions on the board. i used coin and divine spirit on the deathlord, then copied him with faceless manipulator. in the end i didn't draw a single buff-card in the whole game, but instead the zoo-player desperately tried to pull down my tauntwall; he even silenced one of my taunts, then tried to pull down my other one with attacks; but in the end i got an Circle of Healing and a feugen. my deathlord that went down from 2/16 to 2/3 suddendly went up again to 2/9.
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Posts: 517
09/08/2014 01:22 PMPosted by HoloTheWolf
So I've fully analyzed this!

DS is two Mana
PW:S is onw Mana
LS is a 5-5 Minion worth four Mana
The Priest has 4 card drawing spells/Minions. Keep in mind getting down a Cleric round 1-2 almost always gives you at least 1-2 cards because of most 1-2 Mana minions don't have 3 dmg and/or charge.
They can also have Temple enforcers for six Mana which give +3 health, Plus Stormwind champions with their +1 to health and attack are unlocked by default.

Then he has the card drawing minions from the neutral deck. There are plenty of minions that give cards draws already unlocked by default when you start the game.

As simple as getting rid of Clerics, Light Spawns and any taunts, and the Priest having 4 instant kill cards (Shadow Word: Death/Pain), Priests, along with their hero power, are hard to kill early game. All they need is to soak up the damage with light minions, get draws and heal and wait till late game.

Now this is being extreme, I know. But an example. At ten Mana they can place down the light spawn, and still have enough for a six Mana taunt. Then next turn they add the 4 health to LS with PW:S and double it twice with DS and alone they have a 28-28 minion.

That's not it however. Inner Fire turns the minion's attack to match their health. IF they had say, Malygos which is a Legendary Dragon card, 4-12 and +5 Spell Dmg for nine Mana. I have seen this happen at least twice I believe (may have been another Legendary). Inner Fire is one Mana, Malygos is 9. So in two turns with luck, You could have a 48-48 card. A lot of Legendary cards have least 12 health too.

It is, from my experience (correct me if I'm wrong), the only class that has multiple ways to 1 K-O! you with a single minion. That is why the priest is slightly overpowered.

You wasted an awful lot of words on proving absolutely jack all, because your idea of what makes a class overpowered is completely misguided.

A class can not be considered overpowered just because they theoretically have the ability to pull off an OTK. A class is overpowered if they consistently have such a high winrate against almost every other deck that to be competitive you have to either play that class, or a direct counter to that class (if a counter even exists at all). This is pretty clearly not the case with priest. While I don't think anyone would deny that priest has become stronger since Naxx, it is still far from the most powerful class.

Furthermore, the Divine Spirit/Inner Fire combo still just doesn't work. Nobody is using it at higher ranks. In fact, I haven't even seen it much on lower ranks. No matter how good it may sound on paper, it's too draw-dependent and requires too many cards that are bad by themselves to pull off consistently. I don't know, maybe you can prove me wrong and make a DS/IF deck and get to top 16 legend with it, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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Posts: 225
Shouldn't these complaints about DS/IS combos be in the New Player forums?

A few facts for the newbies here:

    Nobody in the higher ranks plays Divine Spirit/Inner Fire combos
    Nobody in the higher ranks play Lightwells or Lightspawns
    Very few in the higher ranks play Mind Control or Temple Enforcers
    Priests have the lowest win rate out of all the classes
    You never see tournament players using Priest decks


Until people can figure out why all of the above is true, experienced players will know that they are inexperienced at this game. This includes the experienced players who do not play Priest as well - they understand how weak Priest can be (even if they find them frustrating to play against).

If you can't figure out why any of the above is true, just try asking. But you have to listen to the answers and accept what the more experienced players say as being right.

It is also true that Priests probably have the strongest basic deck set (along with Mages) which can make them seem incredibly powerful when you first start playing Hearthstone, particularly if you're not used to their play style. So - I can understand why so many new players think that Priest is so strong.
Edited by MrAlziel on 9/9/2014 7:17 AM PDT
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Posts: 2
You missed my point.
This is simply a combo that is slightly a little too easy to pull off.

I'll admit that it's based mostly on luck, much like getting as many 0-1 mana cards to combo with the rouge legendary so you can get him out at like 12-12 or something.

My point was for the amount of times this happens, I think some mana problems should be tweaked. Forcing the other players to clear board every turn or maybe have a chance of dying to a 1-2 hit minion is a little too much.

And for the guy above me ^^ MrAlziel. I think a laaargeee amount of the people here don't play ranked, don't have high ranks, and aren't tournament players. I do play ranked and I do moderately okay, regardless a lot of priests are played in ranked. All I happen to see are Mages and Priests, so I must be doing something wrong.
Regardless. Just because you're highrank. Just because we're not. It does not. D-o-e-s n-o-t. Give you the high moral ground. We have the right to ask and discuss this without being told we're just bad and we should shut the !@#$ up because 'Mr Rank 5' entered the room. Like I said. You still need to cater to the people that don't play ranked and aren't in tournaments. We are important still =-=
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Posts: 517
I'm not trying to be elitist here. I'm hardly a super high rank player myself, usually I finish the season between rank 7 and 5, and often spend a lot of time in the below-rank-10 range early in the season when testing out new decks. But you have to understand that if a deck is seen exclusively in lower ranks, it is because it is bad. If it was actually a strong deck, people playing it would achieve a positive winrate and advance through the ranks. There is no point in nerfing something that is already bad.

Also, clearing the board is generally a good idea if you can do it without wasting too many resources, regardless of what class you're facing. If it's just a 1-2 attack minion, you can probably kill it without losing any of yours.

Nobody is saying you can't discuss this topic, but if you want to discuss something, you need to accept that sometimes you are wrong and people will call you out on it.
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Posts: 225
Oja has done a decent enough job of explaining the argument here,

One of the most tiring things as a Priest player is seeing constant threads being posted about how OP Priests are when this is simply not true at all, Priests are nowhere near OP and that is a fact.

When those of us who are experienced players try to explain why this is, the people who are complaining refuse to listen to what we say or they choose not to believe it. It gets frustrating.

Nobody is saying that casual players are not important - absolutely not. But when more experienced players come forward to try and offer hints, tips and advice to players who don't have the same level of experience - and those players refuse to heed what is being said, it all boils down to 'why bother?'. If people don't want to improve their game then that's up to them. A person can quite easily be a really good casual player as they can be a good ranked or tournament player. It all comes down to what is fun for you and how much time you have available.

If people don't want advice, fine - but then they shouldn't start calling for nerfs that are absolutely not needed at all.
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Posts: 65
Good to hear from Oja and Alziel that the Lightspawn deck is too flawed to play at higher levels.

Can you explain why that is, or what to do about it when it is played?

My game today seemed typical. As a hunter, I played an Ironbeak to silence his Lightspawn. Two turns later, he played a second Lightspawn, boosted with Divine Spirit (and also played another a minor minion).

I could hit it with 5 points of damage, but not ten, and I'm not often holding multiple Silence options at the same time. His next turn, T8, he healed the Lightspawn, played another Divine Spirit, to bring it to 14/14, plus another minor minion and a Sunfury. I'm suddenly at half health and the threat is behind two taunt shields. As Frost noted on page 1,

08/25/2013 06:14 AMPosted by Frost
Isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect everyone facing a Priest to make sure they never, ever, ever, ever have a minion on the field for more than one turn?


Isn't it also unrealistic for players to expect to have multiple Silences in their hand - not just in their deck, but in their hand? The Priest deck sure doesn't seem weak. It delivers with fewer cards, and less mana, than the finishing round from a Miracle Priest.

How do you deal with this deck, and what limits it in experienced play?
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Posts: 225
Hi Tarin.

I'll speak specifically about Hunter here and look at the various options available to them when fighting against a Priest.

The biggest fear Priests who use the minion buffing combos have when facing Hunters is Hunter's Mark. If a Priest is relying on the Lightspawn combo, they can very quickly be stopped in their tracks by this one 0 mana card. That 14/14 threat that you mentioned could have become a 1/1 weenie in the blink of an eye - with the Priest having no way of healing it (because it now has a maximum health of '1'). Hunters Mark is pretty much a staple in most Hunter decks, so you would need to mulligan aggressively for that card when facing Priest or fish for it using Tracking, Flare etc.

Hunter secrets can cause Priests problems as well when they use the buffing combos. One of the biggest threats would be Misdirection, particularly if the fat minion is the only one that the Priest has on his side of the board. Snipe is another good one. If the Hunter has this secret in play and the Priest drops his Lightspawn, he suddenly has a 1/1 minion on the board which he will have to spend 2 mana on to heal to a 3/3 or a card on (Circle of Healing) to get it back to a 5/5. Snipe can also shut down a lot of other standard Priest tricks like dropping a Cleric, Injured Blademaster or Wild Pyromancer. Freezing Trap is the daddy of all secrets though. Play that and as soon as the buffed Ligtspawn attacks it gets returned to the Priest's hand, costs 2 more mana to play AND loses all its buffs.

Priests also hate Houndmaster with a passion. It has 4 attack (so can't be hit with either of the Shadow Words) and it has 3 health (so it's out of range of Holy Smite, Holy Nova, Mind Spike and reverse Hero Power when Auchenai is on the board). On top of this, it can be combo'd to create a taunt minion, so the Priest has two minions to deal with. The only real answer they have is to trade, use Auchenai/Circle or use Holy Fire (along with a trade if there is a taunt minion to deal with as well). The taunt minion will also be in the way of any buffed fatties that the Priest wants to hit you with. If you have buffed a minion to 4 attack as well, things get even more awkward for the Priest. Oasis Snapjaw buffed by Houndmaster is an absolute nightmare for a Priest to deal with.

Another card that Priests hate is Highmane. Sure, they can wipe the card with a SW: Death, but it will still leave behind two 2/2 beasts.

Ironbeak owl you already mentioned - a solid card in a lot of Hunter decks and effective for obvious reasons.

Lastly - Hunters have all the taunt options available to everybody which can stall a Priest's mighty minions. They also have the aforementioned Houndmaster and the chance of pulling Misha from playing 'Summon Animal Companion'.

These are just some of the options available to Hunters alone. I may have missed some. All other classes have plenty of counters to the Priest as well.

A standard response to this might be - 'What if I don't have those cards in my hand?'. Well the answer is 'Sometimes you won't.' But then, just as often the Priest isn't going to have the cards that they need in their hand either. That's just the nature of card games. If you don't have all the answers at the right time then you will lose to any class - not just Priest.

The 'buffing' strategies that Priests use with Inner Fire/Divine Spirit/Power Word: Shield etc are not used at higher levels because the combos needed are unreliable and can be too slow. Particularly against more aggressive decks. A lot of the time a Priest will be sitting with a hand full of spells and nothing to play them on or combo them with which means that they are losing tempo. I agree that when they do manage to pull off the combo - particularly if they are lucky enough to pull it off early - it can be devastating. But the number of times that a Priest is actually able to do it is too low to justify keeping cards like Inner Fire and Divine Spirit in a deck.

The flaws of this style of play do become more obvious as you gain more experience and run into more experienced players. My advice would be to try running a Priest deck that is based around the Lightwell/Divine Spirit combos and see for yourself how well you do after 10 or more games.

Hope this helps to clarify! :-)
Edited by MrAlziel on 9/13/2014 4:13 AM PDT
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Posts: 65
Excellent ideas and explanation. I'll keep them in mind when facing a Priest and deciding which cards to mulligan.

Thanks, Alziel.
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Posts: 104
The degree of denial in the priest forum is amazing. Inner fire/divine spirit is great combo that I use in my own priest deck with good success. shadow word:pain and shadow word: death keeps threats at bay. Heavy taunts help against rush deck. Mind control give you the advantage over control decks. I don't use clerics or steal cards in my deck.

Priests are the worst at denying that their cards are good.
Edited by Emperiorjack on 9/14/2014 9:30 AM PDT
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Posts: 580
09/14/2014 09:28 AMPosted by Emperiorjack
The degree of denial in the priest forum is amazing. Inner fire/divine spirit is great combo that I use in my own priest deck with good success. shadow word:pain and shadow word: death keeps threats at bay. Heavy taunts help against rush deck. Mind control give you the advantage over control decks. I don't use clerics or steal cards in my deck.

Priests are the worst at denying that their cards are good.


Please come back after you get out of rank 20.
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Posts: 104
09/14/2014 11:01 AMPosted by Helghast
09/14/2014 09:28 AMPosted by Emperiorjack
The degree of denial in the priest forum is amazing. Inner fire/divine spirit is great combo that I use in my own priest deck with good success. shadow word:pain and shadow word: death keeps threats at bay. Heavy taunts help against rush deck. Mind control give you the advantage over control decks. I don't use clerics or steal cards in my deck.

Priests are the worst at denying that their cards are good.


Please come back after you get out of rank 20.


Lol seriously.

You priests have bad !@# cards that are cheap cheap cheap in mana cost. Paladins spell card that doubles attack cost 5 mana. Priests spell card that doubles health cost 2 mana. Now how is that fair? It's not my fault priest players are the worst in the game at creating good decks with their super cheap mana cards.
Edited by Emperiorjack on 9/14/2014 1:59 PM PDT
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Posts: 580
you are clearly not out of rank 20 yet
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