lord jaraxxus

Posts: 1
04/18/2014 04:09 AMPosted by IPutGodAway
03/20/2014 12:08 PMPosted by ChaosAE
I have used Jaraxxus, and it is completely balanced, here is why:
-Jaraxxus is 9 mana
-The only other hero power change in the game (shadowform) is 3 mana, since in most cases you cant use the new inferno hero power that turn that part of jaraxxus is worth 2 mana

-get a 3/8 weapon, 4 mana

-Jaraxxus can heal, usually bout 1-8 health, not often do i risk another turn after that. 8 health heal is worth 3 mana.


It also takes your entire turn to play since its 9 mana.

And the new hero power isn't broken because by turn 9-10 a 6/6 every turn is fine for late game. Jaraxxus is meant to make the player go super agro

While I agree that he shouldn't be nerfed, your TCG logic is in need of work.

If you have a card that does the things that three separate cards do, it should cost more. There's a huge advantage to getting two cards in one.

Beyond that, the idea that a 3/8 weapon costs 4 is asinine. Assassin's blade, the closest comp, costs 5 AND has half the durability.

And the hero power? A 6/6 for 5 would be extremely generous. Being able to do it once a turn, for 2 mana? That card would cost 5 at a minimum. If it cost 3 mana, like shadowform, it would be run in every warlock deck no question.

So, although you're right, Jaraxxus isn't broken, you don't seem to understand why. The real reason he's not broken is because he's pretty much an empty turn on turn 9. You can't throw down taunts after you play it, so unless you have a decent handle on the board, he's risky. Sure, he might save you from losing a game if you're at 4 health and your opponent's deck is gassed, but you might've won or not gone down to 4 if you had a playable card, rather than a jaraxxus.

Let's be honest, very rarely is a player able to do 15 damage in one turn. That's a two turn GG. So yeah you may waste a turn, but odds are you probably won't die next turn. And after that? You have a 3/8 weapon, basically unlimited Boulderfist Ogre's (generally viewed as one of the best cards next to senjin and chillwind) for A THIRD of the mana. And if you happen to have a Defender of Argus in your hand? (As what happened to me). GG no RE. It's ridiculous that you would be able to summon a Chillwind Yeti, a 6/6 minion, and then Defender of Argus to make them both into taunts, all in one turn with no buffs. That Hero power should be 4 mana crystal's minimum EASILY, and that's being generous.
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Posts: 7
I have no respect for people who use Jaraxxus, it's taking advantage of a card that somehow avoided the nerf stick. When I meet such people, I'm all about spamming 'sorry' for the remaining duration of the ultimately lost game.
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Posts: 10
01/29/2014 05:37 AMPosted by Fake
Right then, as a warlock who plays jaraxus in both anti aggro midrange and control to rank 1 this season and climbing, jaraxxus does not turn a game around in 9 games out of 10.

The argument that seems most popular is "I feel cheated when I lose to it" I find this frankly hilarious, does that mean if i overextend vs a mage and get flamestriked I was cheated? Or I double divine spirit a lightspawn and get silenced? Was I cheated? No, your opponent just got value from the card they played, the same goes for jaraxxus, if you have board control when they play jaraxxus, you will still most likely win, no argument.

The main reason I see for people screaming about jaraxxus is, ironically, jaraxxus' own screaming. The psychological impact the card has when it is played usually far outweighs his value in the match. Restore hp to 15 and it cant be increased further, deal 3 damage and otherwise do nothing for a turn. In that sense it acts like a lay on hands with less initial effect and gains value as the game progresses, however the player cannot heal further and didn't draw cards. He instead gives you value in later turns with his infernals (3 turns later, so stop QQing about them). The problem with jaraxxus is that it invokes a feeling of rage or fear in the opponent 3 turns earlier than is necessary.

However comboing jaraxxus with other cards can be utterly ridiculous if done well. Consider turn 10 double molten giant, jaraxxus, coin, sunfury. On the face of it this looks insane, needs to be nerfed and also incredibly scary. However analytically the warlock has given you an ultimatum. His card draw hero power is gone and after playing 5 cards he likely has little to no hand. If you rushed to early and got punished for it, shame on you. But if you played the game well jaraxxus puts the game into your hands, deal with his current board or lose, this is often very easy by turn 10.

As a warlock you play this card for two reasons, deperation (usually if not always resulting in a loss vs skilled opponents) or for thr second reason, the careful judgement that as a player you are ready to force your opponent into an ultimatum, be it due to your own board or the less favourable situation the opponent is in, if the warlock makes a poor judgement and the opponent succeds in getting past it then fair enough.

In conclusion jaraxxus is not OP, it just has a psychological impact which masks its true purpose as a card. Skilled players deal with it unless the warlock chose the right moment to us it, however it is much more likely a warlock will use this card of desperation, or just badly because they have it in hand.

I will just quote this thing here because yeah, it's a great post.

I like how people are presenting what is supposedly this 'huge list' of flaws with Jaraxxus (It heals for 14hp, AND it summons 6/6 for 2 mana AND it has a 3/8 weapon!) while counter-arguments have been given to most, if not all of those. You can't expect to win a discussion by repeating the same crap again.
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Posts: 902
I actually log my matches and have actual numbers not made up wombus ..

"IF" I get to play JarJar I have an 80% win rate with the games that I actually summon him.

However I play him in less than 25% of my matches.

Many times I have JarJar in hand and would really like to transition into the Eredar lord. However I know that based on the current board and what my opponent could possibly have in hand that I can't safely do so.

He is not overpowered at all, I can't just play him whenever I pull him like weeee JarJar! I have to invest a lot of planning as to how I can get into him and win with him. Unfortunately this usually means I need board control and have exhausted some of my opponents burst cards.

I currently have less than a 50% win rate thanks to hunters, zoo, murloc, etc. I can't believe people complain about a card that comes out more than halfway through my deck when I often die on turns 5-7 because I didn't draw what I needed to deal with the rush..
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Posts: 1,563

From Jarraxxus to all dem QQers
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Posts: 1,566
Just came to Hearthstone forums for the first time to suggest that the card that needs to be NERFED more than any other card is JARRAXXUS--it is no surprise to see that the top (and largest) thread is already about this topic.

Two reasons why Jarraxxus is too OP:

1) Resetting a Warlock's life to 15, and giving him a weapon along with the ability to summon a 6/6 Inferno each turn (for just 2 mana?!!!) is insane.

2) The card has none of the vulnerabilities that most cards/legendarily would have, like being vulnerable to Sap, Freezing Trap, Hex or Polymorph, Silence, Mind Control, etc..

Someone was high and had the giggles when they made this card.

It is not uncommon for games to go 9+ turns, and no card should be a nearly automatic "I Win" button at turn 9.

Jarraxus is extremely annoying to encounter in Arena as well.

A few possible suggestions for beginning to balance this card might include resetting the life total to 10 or 12 instead of 15, and rather than being able to summon a 6/6 infernal every turn, it should be a random lesser demon (with a 4/3 or 4/4 demon being the largest possible demon that could be summoned). Even the 3/8 weapon seems OP considering everything else the card does. Isn't one Assassin's Blade enough? Why give the warlock two Assassin's Blades by giving the weapon 8 durability?
Edited by Zeldecar on 4/24/2014 11:12 PM PDT
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Posts: 3,239
04/24/2014 10:00 PMPosted by Zeldecar
It is not uncommon for games to go 9+ turns, and no card should be a nearly automatic "I Win" button at turn 9.

You must be joking; I quit ranked for the rest of the season because I seeing literally nothing but zoo and hunter and every game was over before the 5th turn and I'm getting bored with running aggro decks myself.

But Jaraxxus is fine, really...

First, Handlock is the only deck in which Jaraxxus is viable, and even then lots of people prefer Alexstraza.

Second, yes you almost always win if you can get him out but setting up a transition and then living through it isn't something a competent player is going to let you pull off. As has been pointed out many times in this thread, he costs 9 mana so you can't do much else the turn you play him, the turn after you summon an infernal, and finally after 3 turns your first infernal becomes active.

Jaraxxus cannot swing a losing game because your opponent will obliterate you during your vulnerable turns. Jaraxxus is irrelevant if you're already winning - he's just a win more card. He can only make a difference in a close game and in those games he's difficult to set up and even if you do get a decent taunter out the turn before to play Jaraxxus it's still a toss-up since every single class can do 15 points of damage to your face in one turn by that point in the game, let alone three turns.

Also, don't forget that you can't play your molten giants anymore after you play Jaraxxus because he sets your max life to 15. This is actually a really big deal since extremely heavy removal decks can survive the infernal barrage for a long time if you haven't been able to use all your giants before playing Jaraxxus, plus you're now drawing dead cards and can't lifetap anymore.
Edited by Maelstrom on 4/25/2014 4:47 AM PDT
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Posts: 1
Well that was a rude surprise. It was like 25 to 2 with my mage and then uh what just happened. I guess it's go warlock or go home. Lame.
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Posts: 3,899
04/20/2014 11:08 AMPosted by Siege
The real reason he's not broken is because he's pretty much an empty turn on turn 9.

There is another downside too, even if you win you're ranked match with jaraxa, it doesn't count towards the 500 wins for a gold lock. This is a bug, but still something to consider until it is fixed.
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Posts: 277
I've never really had a problem with Jaraxxus because he's always been played at a point where I had the game in control board and health wise.. But if you don't control the board when he comes out.. you are F'd to the nines.

I had my opponent on the ropes, 6 health, he had just cleared the board and dropped him.. I got nothing but spells for 3 draws and it was pathetically over.

The real pain is him going up to 15. To go down from 30-15 is dangerous, but the fact that he can bring a lock from 3 to 15, is the killer about this card. His 6/6s aren't a huge deal because at turn 10, a lot of 6/6 type cards come out. I think the card should require a Warlock be at 15 health 'OR LOWER'. Don't go bumping him up to 15 health, plus a 3/8 weapon and 6/6 hero power and his usual hand.

This card plays like a Deathwing that is immune to spells. That is a bit OP I think.. but as people said, Warlocks don't have much going for them.. That's still a lousy excuse to have a big gamebreaker come out late. If he were a minion, no problem.
Edited by Alimack on 5/3/2014 11:48 PM PDT
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Posts: 5
I'm gonna settle this LJ issue right now.

This is a complete approximation, but you'll get the idea. Let's say 95% of players are casual players.

Only 5% are pros, and have a full understanding of board control, tempo, deck strategy's etc.

For those 95% of players who don't have this knowledge, or are still learning, or just aren't skilled enough to grasp it, LORD JARAXXUS IS OVER-POWERED! It's as simple as that.

I personally believe he needs a nerf, to satisfy this majority.
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Posts: 6
04/10/2014 11:26 AMPosted by Gyror
Played right now against one with this damn OP card.
"Yey im Winning, lets go rank 16"
Nope, cleared my board with two infernos and played jarraxus next turn.
No chance when your in this state of lategame when you just have few combos left cause of trying to survive in past.

That's exactly why you lost.
Not because of Jaraxxus. Because you're being wasteful with your combos instead of saving them, thinking that you've got the game in the bag.
You only have an illusion of winning, often created by Handlock players.

Your opponent on the contrary, has been saving those cards (the two infernos? Don't you mean Hellfire?) to wipe your board clean and make way for Lord Jaraxxus while baiting you to use your combos to remove a handful of Taunt minions in the meantime.

If he didn't have board control when summoning Jaraxxus, his chance of winning will be near 0%
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Posts: 1
To beat Jaraxxus, all you have to do is use Sacrificial Pact. Even while he is a hero, he counts as a demon and will be instantly killed by it.
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Posts: 103
Not true, I've had 2 games recently where I controlled the board but didn't have the spells to counter 6/6 characters for 2-3 turns. It was a losing battle soon as he was summoned. Not to mention he gets a 3/7 equipped ffs.
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Posts: 2
Well, 15 damage in two rounds isn't anything compared to a lightspawn in a priest deck with 2 power word: shields and 2 divine spirits. That's 36 damage for 10 mana in 2 rounds, obliterating them no matter what, and either I'm super lucky, or that's not lucky to get, because I get that almost every round I play my custom deck.
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Posts: 11
04/20/2014 11:08 AMPosted by Siege
Let's be honest, very rarely is a player able to do 15 damage in one turn

yes this never happens
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Posts: 205
Jarraxus is fine hes a WIN more type of card that is very rare when it has value.

Lets say jarraxus is only ever useful in a handlock deck, playing jaraxxus b4 you draw into your molten giants will disable them for the rest of the game practically.

To play jarraxus then you will waste basically 10 mana crystals because the maximum you would be able to play would be a mortal coil so essentially jarraxus osts 10mana because as I said no sane warlock would play him as soon as he reaches turn 9.

ok for a card to cost 10 mana it must have an imediate impact in the game else it is useless jarraxus will be most of the times a medium to small heal + an assasins blade that cant be buffed but has more charges.

You probally wont hit anything with a high attack with your weapon as the risc of dying is too much so it will be generally used to hit face.

The infernals wont have any meaningfull impact in the game until after 2 turns after he played jarraxus.

Most handlocks stopped running jarraxus as it sucks in the current meta with hunter and miracle rogue so popular.
Edited by Myu on 7/5/2014 4:02 AM PDT
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Posts: 13
Sacrificial pact kills jaraxxus for 0 cast cost. Is this for balance?
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Posts: 4,794
Sacrificial pact kills Jaraxxus for 0 cast cost. Is this for balance?
It's for "LEL YOU PLAYED JARAXXUS I HAVE SACRIFICAL PACT I WIN LEL :D:D:D:D" rock-paper-scissors mechanic that blizzard loves so much. It also kills Illidan.
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Posts: 426
Jaraxxus is good when you have board control and are at 15-18 hp with shadowflame in hand,
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