Game breaker - Conceal, Questing Adventurer


Posts: 1,620
Conceal + Questing Adventurer can be dealt with by any taunt guy, or any of the other ways of killing a minion like that.

Your problem is the auctioneer. The QA is just a big meat thing.
Posts: 548
Conceal with Questing Adventurer is actually one of the only Rogue balance issues I have a problem with. Mainly because there are literally only two cards in the entire game that can deal with a giant, stealthed Adventurer. And that's Twisting Nether (Warlock) and Flare (Hunter), both of which are terrible cards that nobody would run in a top tier deck until sideboards are implemented.
Posts: 324
It's funny how rogue player only argument is "you can counter it easily with this or that". You are basicly saying "focus rogue" while not thinking about other classes, smart.
Posts: 3,778
The fix for this is simple. Change QA and Auctioneer and other similar cards to not benefit or cause their action on cards that are cast that cost 0 mana.
Posts: 323
I had a Rogue who was getting completely owned, I had 30 HP and he had 14, he spawned a mana addict and used conceal, and since I was a paladin there was literally nothing I could do about that so I just ignored it.
The next turn he had 3 HP left and I still had 30, he then uses a boatload of cards and his mana addict has 21 damage, he used 2 eviscerates and his dagger could deal 3 damage, the only reason I didn't die was that he didn't have an assassinate/backstab for my taunt creature (it had 3 HP), I survived the mana addict with three HP.
I think conceal in general is kind of broken.
Posts: 206
The nerf has to come. Its impossible to win against the combos like that. Its impossible to react properly do the conceal/auctioneer/mana adddict !@#$. 5 0 Mana Crystal combos are completly off.
Stop arguing against it. It cant be countered. Rogues are imbalanced.
Endless card draws like Auctioneer/buzzard have to be fixed anyway
Edited by Henno on 9/14/2013 8:53 AM PDT
Posts: 4,649
Just track miracle rogue decks and analyze there win/loss carefully.

If statistics proves that they are dominate and broken then consider changes.
Posts: 4,649
09/10/2013 10:56 AMPosted by moojerk
The fix for this is simple. Change QA and Auctioneer and other similar cards to not benefit or cause their action on cards that are cast that cost 0 mana.

This would be a great change.
Posts: 1,884
I'm running into a lot of combos by rogues that seem to be built around very low cost cards...

By the 4th turn, they've usually played 7-8 cards - this tends to give them an insurmountable advantage.... at this point, they've drawn a few extra cards, put out 4-5 minions, buffed them up if possible, and destroyed everything you've tried to put into the field....

They are the early game version of the late game priest mindcontrol.
Posts: 323
The thing I hate the most is that Warlock was supposed to be the class that was OP as !@#$ early game with some heavy drawbacks (fel guard destroys mana crystal, damaging yourself with many of your spells, having to throw away cards) and he is weaker than Rogue..
Posts: 3
I would agree that playing against a Miracle Rogue is no fun, win or lose. Typically when I see one I just quit on the spot because it's not worth it. Yesterday I managed to out-last by waiting for them to overdraw while being conservative with my cards, but it was just luck that I was able to last that long. If the rogue hadn't overdrawn I certainly would have lost, and even while winning I didn't have fun.

Watching a Miracle Rogue pull out minions and replay them to draw more cards to play more 0 cost spells to play other 2 cost spells for free etc is the most tedious strategy in Hearthstone. Yes, it can be beaten, but it reduces the game to just luck of the draw and is time consuming and tedious to watch played out.
Posts: 131
Seen this thread a solid 30 times now.

Counters are:

Creature removal
Board wipe
Posts: 7
Seen this thread a solid 30 times now.

Counters are:

Creature removal
Board wipe

Taunt? Sap, silence, destroy, or damage it down with cheap rogue spells.
Silence? He's stealthed how will you silence if you're not a priest with mass dispel?
Creature removal? Same as above.
Board wipe? so likely 1 or 2 possible cards that can be dealt with by any rogue if not immediate (Doomsayer). It's can also be played really early so a lot of the cards that can do the trick may not be available. And heck, if you blow a big removal to get rid of 2 cards I'd consider that a win.

I'm only in 1 star master but this card just feels so good when I get to play it. If you get to use an auctioneer with it as well its just so broken.
Posts: 123
if you cant remove a QA with conceal, you're playing it wrong...
Posts: 169

What ARE you talking about?

There's no "miracle" involved. There's plenty of room for 2x Questing Adventurers and 2x Conceal Cards in any Rogue deck. It's a solid minion choice for any Rogues.

I've been using Questing Adventurers to draw fire from my +Spellpower cards and to force my opponent to spend their counters on them before I bring out the bigger guns - but that doesn't mean they won't win the match if the opponent CAN'T counter them.

Seriously, you don't need to build a deck completely around Questing Adventurers grown to 14/14. It's a 3-mana card. There's all kinds of ways to use it that'll get you an advantage. If it kills a 5-cost minion but dies itself, you're ahead. If it kills a minion AND makes your opponent waste an instant-kill, you're still ahead.

My deck does not rely on me drawing these guys, or on always using them with Conceal. That does not prevent me from using them like that when the opportunity presents itself. I've gotten all the way up to Expert level - and I've had matches I won with these guys, matches where they got killed early, AND matches where I never drew them at all, but still managed to win.

I wouldn't call it Game Breaking, though. It's a very powerful card for Rogues. But I've seen Priests turn a high-health minion into 20/20 in one turn - and I saw a Warrior whip out a Raging Worgen, enrage it, buff it up to ten attack, and charge with it for 2x hits in a single turn. There are OTHER very powerful cards out there.

Hey shhh, that's my warrior strategy
Posts: 118
08/30/2013 09:13 PMPosted by SirGiff
A lot of classes can break it. And thats considering the fact that you need 3 specific cards in your hand out of 30 at the same time.

The chances of drawing into the combo aren't low at all. Not guaranteed, sure, but I'd hardly call the combo unreliable.

Especially considering you have shadowstepping Novice Engineer and Shiv to get you the cards. I think it's something like a 70% chance to get the 3 card combo by turn 5.

The tricks is to staying alive until you're able to get the combo to go off. I've never had a game out of hundreds with the deck where I never drew into the cards by turn 5. Not that I can recall anyway.

IMO the way to fix this is 4 fold:
1. Nerf Gadgetzan to where you only droaw a card for the 1st spell cast each turn.
2. Nerf Conceal to cost a minimum of 3 mana.
3. Preparation should cost 1 mana and reduce the next spell cast by 2.
4. Shadow step should cost 1 and reduce the casting cost by 2.

Now you've fixed the cheese but left the combo intact but at a far lesser strength.
Posts: 118
You can easily defeat this deck with an aggressive strategy. The more cards you force them to use early, the more difficult it will be for them to grow an Adventurer or VanCleef.

While I don't agree that the deck is too powerful, I do agree that it should still be nerfed. The reason for this is because of the play experience. The matches are non-interactive and incredibly boring, as if the rogue is playing their own little game. If the first game someone plays is against this deck, I'm pretty sure they would quit the game on the spot.

'This is a problem in and of itself because it has shifted the Metagame to Agro decks, leaving midrange and more importantly control decks in the dust. Too whoever said the metagame was a Warlock prior to this knows nothing about the tournament scene.

Right now Miracle Rogue is to good and they already said it will get nerfed.
Posts: 118
Seen this thread a solid 30 times now.

Counters are:

Creature removal
Board wipe

You going to load up a heavy taunt focused deck? Good luck beating anything remotely good. Most taunt decks run 4 and at most 6 taunts but on average with my Miracle Rogue deck there's only 2 and maybe 3 to deal with before I go off. Which is easy to do with 2 Ironbeaks and 2 Saps (plus other removal) on the turn you go off.

Good luck silencing something you cant see. I've never had my Gadz or Questing Adventurer silenced because I always conceal them the round prior. Is it possible that both my conceals are at the bottom of the deck? Sure, but it's never happened yet.

Again you can't remove what you can't target. The only successful ways to beat this deck is through Agro Decks and the occasional bad luck on the Miracle Rogue's part.
Posts: 121
Yeah, it's extremely hard to counter something you can't target. Saying that AoE is a counter is a lie, because Van Cleef and/or QA will be too large to kill with damage. Hunters can handle them, which might be why the tournament winner was hunter.

Snipe before the cast (not likely going to work vs good player)
Flare and silence
Deadly shot

Mass Silence

Frost Nova (for one more turn to survive)

Eye for an Eye (again, good player won't fall for it)
Equality + Consecration

Brawl (luck based)

Note that this means only 5 out of 9 can stop this. I guess technically a rogue can counter it by doing it first. Yes, you can drop as much taunt as possible and hope they can't get rid of it all. That's how I play and Senjin Shieldmasta is the best for this since it's just out of eviscerate range to force the shiv also.

But yes, Rogue will get changes.
Posts: 748
09/04/2013 08:43 PMPosted by Weeble
You can easily defeat this deck with an aggressive strategy. The more cards you force them to use early, the more difficult it will be for them to grow an Adventurer or VanCleef.

aggresive strategy against vancleef i dont know.
cleef 13/13

in turn 4.

i noticed in current meta people often try not to put 2mobs against full hand, they expect big combos.

but i dont have vancleef, wish i had, its a great card even with 2cards, 5/5 for 3, always good to have
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