Haunted Mines Update - April 1, 2014

Community Manager
Posts: 476
In order to help emphasize and reward the Legendary event on the Haunted Mines Battleground, we made the following changes:

Goal: Shorten the time commitment of clearing the mines.
  • Skeletons now spawn in larger groups and continue to become more concentrated with each event.
  • The number of Skeletons decrease in subsequent mine openings and the skulls are added to the Golem reward.

Goal: Increase the reward for clearing the Mines. Early Golems will mean more while late Golems will remain at the same relative strength.
  • The base health of the Golem has been increased by 37.5%.
  • The scaling health of the Golem was decreased from 750 to 700 per minute.

Additionally, the lane your team's Golem will attack down will now be displayed to you from the start of a game on Haunted Mines.

Edit: This is not an April Fools joke! :)
Edited by Spyrian on 4/1/2014 10:41 AM PDT
Reply Quote
MVP - World of Warcraft
Posts: 1,375
These are great changes and a big step in the right direction. Hopefully this will be enough to make the Mines a viable objective that is at least competitive with the mass-merc push strategy.
Reply Quote
Posts: 15
These look like solid changes, looking forward to testing them in-game.

Curious to see just how the "Skeletons now spawn in larger groups and continue to become more concentrated with each event." will play out.
Reply Quote
Posts: 218
I'm actually really surprised with this change. It's so soon that it feels a bit hasty to me.

I don't think HM really needed a change this early, people just need to learn the map. This may cause more problems than fixes. :\
Reply Quote
Posts: 14
Yay for Haunted Mines change!!!
Reply Quote
MVP - World of Warcraft
Posts: 1,375
04/01/2014 11:03 AMPosted by CyaSteve
I'm actually really surprised with this change. It's so soon that it feels a bit hasty to me.

I don't think HM really needed a change this early, people just need to learn the map. This may cause more problems than fixes. :\


This is completely anecdotal of course, but in my experience it was orders of magnitude more effective to capture and push with mercenary camps than it was to collect skulls in the mine. The time investment of the mines was simply too high for the reward it generated, and the opportunity cost of making that investment could lose you the game if the other team made more efficient choices.
Reply Quote
Posts: 74
Hopefully this will promote more team battles in the mines with an easier reward to grab.
Reply Quote
Posts: 147
Agreed, the problem IS that people have learned the map. It was absolutely clear that the first golem didn't matter, and the correct strategy was to make sure you get at least 1 skull and then get merc camps while your opponents did the mines. If you don't get at least 1 skull, you don't get a golem at all.

The change to golem health is 100% appropriate and I'm pleasantly surprised that action was taken this quickly. I'm not sure about the skeleton concentration thing - to be honest I'm not sure I understand it. If there are more skeletons, does that mean there's more than 100 total skulls now? Or are there the same number of skulls divided among more skeletons?
Reply Quote
Posts: 15
04/01/2014 11:55 AMPosted by Saavedra
If you don't get at least 1 skull, you don't get a golem at all.


You still get a golem even if you don't get at least 1 skull. Teams just get a big boost in health of the golem if they get all 100 skulls.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,048
04/01/2014 11:55 AMPosted by Saavedra
Agreed, the problem IS that people have learned the map. It was absolutely clear that the first golem didn't matter, and the correct strategy was to make sure you get at least 1 skull and then get merc camps while your opponents did the mines. If you don't get at least 1 skull, you don't get a golem at all.

Agreed. When I play Sgt. Hammer and get Haunted Mines I just 'lol' because I know the opponent's team will probably go down to the mines while I destroy their entire base and my team summons merc camps to back me up.

04/01/2014 11:55 AMPosted by Saavedra
I'm not sure about the skeleton concentration thing - to be honest I'm not sure I understand it. If there are more skeletons, does that mean there's more than 100 total skulls now? Or are there the same number of skulls divided among more skeletons?

No, there will actually be -fewer- skeletons later in the game, apparently. Basically, the number of Skeleton 'groups' is reduced continually throughout the game and some (but not all) of the missing skeletons are merged into other 'groups', so that there are fewer but larger groups of skeletons late-game. The remaining skulls (from the skeletons who never found a new home) go to the Golem, increasing the Golem's importance in the late-game mines.
Edited by Simca on 4/1/2014 12:34 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 22
04/01/2014 11:23 AMPosted by Eldacar
04/01/2014 11:03 AMPosted by CyaSteve
I'm actually really surprised with this change. It's so soon that it feels a bit hasty to me.

I don't think HM really needed a change this early, people just need to learn the map. This may cause more problems than fixes. :\


This is completely anecdotal of course, but in my experience it was orders of magnitude more effective to capture and push with mercenary camps than it was to collect skulls in the mine. The time investment of the mines was simply too high for the reward it generated, and the opportunity cost of making that investment could lose you the game if the other team made more efficient choices.


I completely agree with Eldacar's evaluation of the (then) current Haunted Mines metagame. On balance, a team that went for a knight camp push against an enemy team that committed multiple players to clearing the mines would almost always result in roughly a 2 effective level lead by destroying at least 1 fort from the asymmetrical push. Then, assuming at least about 4 players of the team that pushed with the knight camp are able to defend the golem push, said team would almost always maintain their lead after killing the golem, while rarely losing a fort in the process (due to the level advantage). Here are some screenshots of 0 skull golems outliving 100 skull golems to support this claim:

http://i.imgur.com/SpioJ4U.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jK2LEun.jpg

Please note that the second image displays a 0 skull golem which spawns on our enemy team's palace, yet it's health bar is still on screen, while the enemy golem's is not. This is a particularly easy feat to accomplish if 1 or more heroes on a team have access to and opt to take the "blood for blood" talent, which currently allows you to deal 30% of the golem's max hp in damage to it.
Edited by BkxReaper201 on 4/1/2014 1:01 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 470
Was any consideration given to having the golems spawn at the start of the event (instead of the end) and have each additional skull automatically and dynamically increase the power of your golem while damaging/weakening the enemy's? I think this play on the temporal positioning of the golems would add a lot the the map. (i.e. you can push "with your team" by going down and collecting skulls while they are above ground side by side with it).

Maybe this type of mechanic deserves to be on an entirely new map though.
Reply Quote
Posts: 636
This confuses me. Could anyone explain tihs? It looks like golems are more important early game, and even less important late game. But they also increased the base values, so by % won't the 1 skull golem still benefit more than the 99 skull golem from this change?
Reply Quote
Posts: 22
04/01/2014 02:06 PMPosted by Ragun
This confuses me. Could anyone explain tihs? It looks like golems are more important early game, and even less important late game. But they also increased the base values, so by % won't the 1 skull golem still benefit more than the 99 skull golem from this change?


That's generally how percentages work, yes; the concept of diminishing returns inherently works this way. However, your concern would not be as big of an issue if percent hp damage was not available as an easy solution to dealing with the percent hp scaling golems (i.e. "blood for blood" talent should not be able to target the golems). I believe that this issue is in the process of being addressed, however.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2
Thanks for this discussion. The 'learning the map' comments are spot on! I've been playing for about a week and the first strategy I tried was to leverage a full merc push. The fact of the matter is that gamers are much more tactically aware and dynamic than they were say 5-10 years ago. Battlegrounds and other MOBAs have ratcheted up the learning curve. So changes may feel rushed, but i'm confident that there is data to support it... Oh what I would do to get access to that data.....

*doctoral researcher drools*
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]