StarCraft® II

Call to Action: October 17 Balance Testing

Community Manager
Posts: 619
We just published a new Balance Test Map to the StarCraft II Custom Games list entitled "Bel’Shir Vestige LE (2.0.11 Balance v1.1)". This time we've made a couple tweaks to the changes found on the previous iteration of the test map for the reasons mentioned in David Kim's recent forum post. Have a look at the changes below, then give them a whirl in-game!

Protoss
    Oracle
  • Revelation casting range has returned to 9.
  • Units that burrow or cloak while under the effects of Revelation will once again be revealed after unburrowing or uncloaking.


Terran
    Widow Mine
  • Sentinel Missiles splash damage radius has returned to 1.75.
  • Sentinel Missiles now deal reduced damage to units caught within its splash radius based on their distance from the target:
    • 40 damage within 1.25 radius
    • 20 damage from 1.25 to 1.5 radius
    • 10 damage from 1.5 to 1.75 radius


We'd like to remind you that the changes listed above are not final. Once you've played a few games on the test map, please feel free to let us know what you think of the changes by leaving a comment in this thread.

Thank you very much!
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,092
Awesome changes! although is the roach buff still in?
Reply Quote
Posts: 4,944
Awesome! thank you blizzard ♥ u
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,599
Please keep the Tank and Roach buffs! They make the gameplay more exciting and are a good step in adding variety to the game.
Reply Quote
Posts: 4,944
10/17/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Qendel
Please keep the Tank and Roach buffs! They make the gameplay more exciting and are a good step in adding variety to the game.
Reply Quote
Posts: 24
Please keep the Tank and Roach buffs! They make the gameplay more exciting and are a good step in adding variety to the game.


I wholeheartedly agree. Blizzard, the Tank and Roach buffs would have been very interesting, and should definitely be given a shot.
Reply Quote
Posts: 157
Really, remove roach tunneling speed increase? Like roach tunneling claws is used in the first place because of this game's dry mechanics. Bring more to the field to make this game more exciting than standard play.
Reply Quote
Posts: 9
Tank buff isn't enough. Please buff more!
Reply Quote
Posts: 14
im a terran player and i actually really like these changes. first because widow mine really is OP and i didnt like the range reduction but i really like the damage reduction, that is more than fair. and the revelation i think should reveal burrowed units just because it uses energy, like scan energy the oracle energy could be used for other things like owning light units! but yeah generally fair
Reply Quote
Posts: 14
[quote="102609032616"]im a terran player and i actually really like these changes. first because widow mine really is OP and i didnt like the range reduction but i really like the damage reduction, that is more than fair. and the revelation i think should reveal burrowed units just because it uses energy, like scan energy the oracle energy could be used for other things like owning light units! but yeah generally fair. also i like the roach buff tons i miss the burrow play!!!
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,474
Possible bug fix to oracle, combined with a bigger widow mine nerf?

OK...I can see how that will definitely lessen the impact against zerg (mostly) of widow mines, but I still don't see that helping oracles to be used more in the late game.
Reply Quote
Posts: 390
It's not completely clear from the OP, but the changes listed are in addition to the changes already made to the previous version of the test map. The full list of changes is:

Protoss
    Oracle
  • Speed increased from 3.375 to 4.
  • Acceleration increased from 2 to 3.
  • Units that burrow or cloak while under the effects of Revelation will once again be revealed after unburrowing or uncloaking.


Terran
    General
  • Terran Mech ground and air attack upgrades combined.
  • Siege Tank
  • Siege Tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7.
  • Widow Mine
  • Sentinel Missiles now deal reduced damage to units caught within its splash radius based on their distance from the target:
    • 40 damage within 1.25 radius
    • 20 damage from 1.25 to 1.5 radius
    • 10 damage from 1.5 to 1.75 radius


Zerg
    Roach
  • The Tunneling Claws upgrade also increases the burrowed roach movement speed from 1.41 to 2.25.
Reply Quote
Posts: 96
While risking sounding sassy, this is how I read the changes:

Oracle: We will fix a bug that has been there on the first place and call it an upgrade
Widow mine: We felt making it viable would be too harsh of a change so instead we will leave it to be insanely cost effective, just in a slightly more subtle way

It seems to me that blizz is not watching any protoss games, because if they did, they would notice the TOTAL ABSENCE of oracles; it's not that they're there sitting around doing nothing because revelation can be cloaked or burrowed out of, it's the fact that they're so utterly useless that no protoss will bother producing them because they simply add no value whatsoever to protoss meta. Here's the BEST case scenario:

-Protoss player makes oracle fast enough (proxy at best)
-Defending player (any race) loses 4-6 workers before they're all pulled out of mineral line
-Defences come, call it marines, queens or stalkers, oracle runs away
-Turrets come in the form of one well placed turret (be it missile, cannon or spore) among the workers
-Oracle is useless the rest of the game

If the match is PvP the starport is useful due to how well airtoss works against other toss; if it's PvZ or PvT well... protoss just wasted teching time and resources in a building that will be USELESS for the rest of the game. Here's how airtoss fares against other races:

-VoidRay: gets melted by marines (50/0), can be kited by vikings, both VERY common terran bio units. Loses hands down to hydras and is by no means a cheap or fast-produced unit; loses hands down to mutas too.
-Phoenix: could be a medivac poker in sufficient amounts; other than that it adds no value to a protoss army vs terran bio. VITAL in fighting zerg mutas, USELESS against any other zerg units (gets melted by corruptors, crushed by hydras, spore colonies deny phoenix harassment). Requires HEAVY micro to be useful vs mutas since they lose if put 1:1
-Tempest: with current maps featuring lots of ground and few (if any) blank patches, marines bring tempests down EASY while sustaining minimum losses. Hydras in creep are fast enough to bring down tempests and even if they're not, mutas are.
-Carrier: I won't get into detail about just how useless these guys are at protoss meta right now. Just ask yourself when was the last time you saw a protoss victory by means of carriers vs terran or zerg. Big, expensive and slow in both production and movement are only the beggining of these obliterated champions.

So basically, if you guys want to see toss actually use the oracle, straight up reduce the gas cost (150g a pop is EXPENSIVE) and increase the unit's survivability by boosting the shield (the thing that can actually regenerate). Possibly increase shields by 40 and reduce hp by 20 since ONE turret can bring down an oracle down to actuall hull damage in just a flyby.
Reply Quote
Posts: 6,662
It's not completely clear from the OP, but the changes listed are in addition to the changes already made to the previous version of the test map. The full list of changes is:

Protoss

Oracle
Speed increased from 3.375 to 4.
Acceleration increased from 2 to 3.
Units that burrow or cloak while under the effects of Revelation will once again be revealed after unburrowing or uncloaking.

Terran

General
Terran Mech ground and air attack upgrades combined.
Siege Tank
Siege Tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7.
Widow Mine
Sentinel Missiles now deal reduced damage to units caught within its splash radius based on their distance from the target:
40 damage within 1.25 radius
20 damage from 1.25 to 1.5 radius
10 damage from 1.5 to 1.75 radius

Zerg

Roach
The Tunneling Claws upgrade also increases the burrowed roach movement speed from 1.41 to 2.25.


Thanks! I think this needs to be clarified in the OP.

I still think the oracle changes won't do much to oracle usage, but we'll see!
Reply Quote
Posts: 82
I like that they are reducing damage of widow mines to splash; it's a buff to zerg because banes and lings can more easily survive, and it's a buff to terran because damage to their own units is also decreased.

But one thing that makes the widow mine too strong (In my opinion) is it's slow startup fire rate. It takes a good second or so for the widow mine to fire off a shot. Not enough time to split your units, but enough time for marines to kill off units (like zerglings) that are trying to detonate the mine.

So if you are trying to detonate mines with zerglings and send in a sacrificial zergling or 2, they will melt from marine fire before detonating the mine. You need to sacrifice about 4 lings just to set one off, which seems a bit much. It should fire a bit faster so that the shot is fired before marines can kill off zerglints trying to detonate them.

You need too many sacrificial units to set off mines, it's pretty strong.. perhaps unnecessarily so. So reduce the startup time it takes for the mine to go off.
Edited by Zerantoss on 10/17/2013 9:12 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 688
After watching the latest WCS (Bomber vs. Jaedong), I kind of think the matchup needs more attention than a small tweak to Widow Mines. Could we maybe test a Baneling cost reduction (say, 25/15), or a smarter AI that has them prioritize Light units over Armored ones? The biggest problem with TvZ is that Marines are simply FAR too effective, especially with army splits, and Zerg essentially has no good way to counter them.

The Oracle changes are pretty cool. I'm still looking forward to them, as I think the Oracle is a cool unit that doesn't wreck my world often enough.

The Roach changes still feel pretty pointless. How about a reduced-cost Burrow, Ventral Sacs, or Tunnelling Claws?
Edited by RabbitHazard on 10/17/2013 9:24 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 38
Changes are better, but still why decrease the splash damage?

Every race has 100% splash damage, why only apply it to the widow mine?

Come on guys..

- Fungal growth kills super easily bio, especially when chained one after another.
- Baneling, wow, with that super radius and same damage, what can I tell (though yes, their radius is lower)
- Colossus, melts marines or probes or lings with the same damage
- High Templars totally destroy light units with storm, and same area damage...
- Ultralisks well.. do I have to mention their damage?
- Thors same vs. clumped air units but with the "magic box" gets countered now so easily

I think only the Planetary Fortress has the same deal... but it is such an immobile structure (not unit)
that i think it is probably fair it remains the same.

And only the Mutalisk has a bounce decreased AOE damage...

Toss takes sneaks a quick oracle (ony one!) and can decimate 10+ workers in a matter of seconds!!

To sneak a mine into a mineral mine, micro it, save it, pick it up, etc., is so hard already and now, one of the small chances to make good damage to an opponent, is being potentially nerfed? by reducing the area damage related to the radius?

So now, if we sneak one mine, Terrans won't be able to actually kill workers?? What it this?? Are you serious?

We will leave lots of injured workers then while a single baneling or oracle can decimate tons of workers, plus oracles are much faster and fly, and baneligs are so inexpensive... And banelings have a 2.2 radius (Mines 1.25, lower) and banes will do 20+15 (extra vs. light) with more radius, and same damage..

Oh boy...

Who is really complaining? Why does this has to change? I watch a lot of SC2 tournaments (PRO's and some amateur) and nobody really over uses Widow Mines..

Contribution done...

Still love the game and paid for my virtual blizz con ticket.. hope after or during the event I don't get the super bad news...

If you reduce the mines radius damage, then PLEASE apply the same rule TO ALL area of effect units.. of all three races at least...
Reply Quote
Posts: 7,815
Very nice.

Hey, I know this has been stated a bunch lately, but it really seems that quite a few posters feel the tank buff is not enough. Could we perhaps try a 2.5 sec cooldown on the next test patch, or even better, a slight buff to the armored damage (tanks scale horrendously vs toss in the lategame vs toss as upgrades start coming in) ? Thank you!
Edited by nomufftotuff on 10/17/2013 11:13 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,599
Oh, Thanks for clarifying.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,040
10/17/2013 06:53 PMPosted by Aldrexus
Revelation casting range has returned to 9.


Could we receive a brief explanation for this alteration? Just curious of the thought process behind keeping the range the same.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]