StarCraft® II

Balance Test Map

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Posts: 2,308
Happy New Year Dayvie! These changes sound excellent, can't wait to try them out.
We believe we can push mech usage more as well. Some options we’re looking at here are: higher armored damage for siege tanks, easier access to EMP when going mech (such as building the energy upgrade into the unit), buffing mech air, and so on. However, this is the area in which we’re the least certain. Detailed feedback based on good reasoning is greatly appreciated.

Please keep in mind none of this is even close to final. We truly appreciate your feedback, and we’ll continue to carefully consider what you’ve got to say before we publish the next balance test map.
Two cents:
Siege Tanks are already very good against Roach/Hydra and Gateway units; adding more armored damage wouldn't help against the Immortal Hardened Shields.

Starting Ghosts with Moebius Reactor is an interesting idea, but since it also buffs mid-game Bio play in TvP, Terrans may still continue going for MMMVG comps.

I'd be interested in hearing your ideas for buffing mech air. What about something like removing the energy requirement for Yamato? Tempests hard counter Battlecruisers so High Templar only add insult to injury.

Thanks again!
Posts: 9
More about mech, tis still not viable at all in TvP. Nerf immortls/carriers or buff the counter units.
Posts: 1,960
As for mech - some compositions are ALLOWED to be bad against another composition of a different race, especially if there is no mix. Ever try skytoss vs bio? GLHF trading your voids, tempests, and even oracles efficiently with stimmed marines.

Pure mech should not be any more viable against a protoss ball with variety than pure (gateway, robo, templar, all of equal cost/supply) is against a terran ball with variety.

Not everything Terran has should be viable in all matchups against all compositions - the other races, especially Zerg, have to look the enemy army in the eye and realize that maybe the composition they WANTED to go, isn't going to work well.

I can't make mass DT if the enemy has ravens, I can't make mass Archon if the enemy has ghosts.

Terran shouldn't make mass marine if the enemy has multiple colossi, they shouldn't make mass thor if the enemy has immortals.

See how it works? Some compositions are supposed to be countered, and that's alright.
Edited by Yukari on 1/2/2014 2:39 PM PST
MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 27,334
Imo, Mr. Kim, these two changes would do help a lot for TvZ mech:

1. Thor movement speed increased to 2.00 (from 1.88)

- The Thor is ridiculously slow. It's already bulky and clumsy, and it's a lot, LOT slower than the other massive ground units in Starcraft II. The Thor's importance to mech anti air has increased since the Widow Mine nerf. I feel that the 1.88 movement speed is old fashioned, unreasonable, and outdated, especially with the smaller Thor model. 2.00 seems much more reasonable. It's a small but noticeable buff (notice the theme of noticeable changes as opposed to things like the SIege Tank fire rate increase).

2. Viper Blinding Cloud now reduces the range of all affected units and structures by 6 (instead of reducing all range to 1)

- The change to Blinding Cloud would only affect three units: the Colossus, Thor, and Siege Tank. Colossus with extended range would be reduced to 3, Thor reduced to 2 AG and 4 AA, and Siege Tank reduced to 7 in siege mode. Note how Abduct is strong vs those three units anyways. I feel that if mech is to become mainstream in TvZ, the Viper needs this very small and specific nerf in order to be plausible vs lategame Zerg.
Edited by Doncroft on 1/2/2014 2:40 PM PST
Posts: 1
yaay nerf protoss more -.-. Hope lov will be more friendly for protoss
Posts: 1,101
A great idea for Mech is to replace all the units with gundams LOL
Sorry I just had too.

Nice idea's maybe reducing the vision of mothership core and possibly taking a look at fixing the oracle to would be a good idea.
Posts: 2,921
01/02/2014 02:35 PMPosted by HunterKiller
Reduce cost of Burrow to 50/50. This opens up some hatch level tactics that can actually help Zerg.

This suggestion has always scared me so much.. it just feels too huge. Ya it could delay you lair or speed but having "cloak" that early just seems game breaking for a gimme price of 50/50 :/
Posts: 8
Just a thought, maybe you could remove shield upgrades from protoss and give armory attack upgrades bonus damage vs shields that staggers with the corresponding level of the upgrade. ie/ +1 attack does x bonus damage, +2 does x much, etc... This would help mech a lot and not many protoss' utilize shield upgrades heavily or at all.
Posts: 1,437
S
The next step for Terran mech

We believe we can push mech usage more as well. Some options we’re looking at here are: higher armored damage for siege tanks, easier access to EMP when going mech (such as building the energy upgrade into the unit), buffing mech air, and so on. However, this is the area in which we’re the least certain. Detailed feedback based on good reasoning is greatly appreciated.


it sounds like the big consideration is how mech will be played out vs protoss. please keep zerg in mind when making these buffs.

as it stands i think zerg has an incredibly hard time dealing with sky terran in it's final form. hydra, corruptor, muta, even spore crawlers are negated by PDD. the only unit left is the infestor with chain fungals and infested terrans that can't be upgraded. does the queen's attack get shut down by PDD?
MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 27,334
01/02/2014 02:40 PMPosted by EaSY
Just a thought, maybe you could remove shield upgrades from protoss and give armory attack upgrades bonus damage vs shields that staggers with the corresponding level of the upgrade. ie/ +1 attack does x bonus damage, +2 does x much, etc... This would help mech a lot and not many protoss' utilize shield upgrades heavily or at all.

Remove shield upgrades? That's a very bad idea. Archons and air units need those, not to mention lategame Photon Cannons.
Posts: 575
01/02/2014 02:23 PMPosted by Dayvie
Perhaps we can move in small steps in order to see some more burrow move speed usage in various matchups.


Go on thinking that. You are moving with such a slow speed, that by the time you get where you should be, there will be nobody playing this game anymore. Particularly, the roach burrow speed buff - have you ALREADY tested it? If you have, why it didn't pass with 2.25, what was the reasoning behind it? (and we all know you have)

Nerf time warp instead of photon overcharge, address the zerg's lack of AA.
Edited by Poco on 1/2/2014 2:48 PM PST
Posts: 83
Burrow is fun, but if you want to make zerg really entertaining, work on making nydus more popular.
Posts: 2,821
Add a little bit of "EMP" damage (effecting only shields, not mana) to Mech units - and it gives some mech boost TvP while TvZ will remain the same.
Edited by Xeno on 1/2/2014 3:07 PM PST
Posts: 11
01/02/2014 02:23 PMPosted by Dayvie
Photon overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 40


That won´t change ANYTHING. *shaking head like an old lady*

Still no harass possible.
Posts: 33


As we prepare this next balance test map, we’d like to hear your thoughts on:

Photon overcharge duration decreased from 60 to 40



!@#$ing FINALLY!!!
atleast we shouldn't wait another year...but technically we still waited for a year....
Posts: 5,704
Been playing some SC2+ lately Dayvie?
Posts: 8
Maybe with changes to decrease emp it the upgrades could work in conjunction with emp, archons already have a lot of shields and are strong.
Posts: 4
What should it bring to decrease the duration of photon overcharge in tvp?!?!?!?!

Does that make banshee-build possible? NO!
Does that make hellion-build possible? NO!
Does that make reaper-build possible? NO!
Does that any early aggression possible? NO!

So what the !@#$, why decreasing it to 40 secs?! it doesnt change the early game at all. You won't see different builds in tvp, I promise!
Remove that overcharge-thing! It destroys any early game aggression of any other race!!!
Edited by Terric on 1/2/2014 2:47 PM PST
Posts: 8,510
01/02/2014 02:43 PMPosted by Zergrusher
Been playing some SC2+ lately Dayvie?


Obviously...
Posts: 3,268
GOGO 200 energy PO.
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