StarCraft® II

Call to Action: January 31 Balance Testing

Posts: 256
Need changes to viper and/or corruptor to make zerg air actually useful againt protoss air deathballs so we don't need swarmhost with mass spores!
You've already ruled out broodlord compositions against stargate openers due to the speed at which charged voids kill everything (faster than tranfuse takes to cast when focus fired), mass carriers and tempest burst damage...
Edited by DarK on 1/31/2014 7:18 PM PST
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Posts: 334
Loving that balance test map mod extension. Smart usuage of the 2.1 features there blizz :)
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Posts: 769
Reserved
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Posts: 1,772
blink builds are BS blizz!!!!!!
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Posts: 4,428
01/31/2014 04:46 PMPosted by Spyrian
are not final


01/31/2014 04:46 PMPosted by Spyrian
Zerg
Hydralisk
Cost decreased from 100/50 to 100/25

okay DONT MAKE THIS FINAL
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Posts: 2,469
I think the Hydra buff a good change to ZvP.
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Posts: 86
Terran

Ghost
Starting energy increased from 50 to 75.
The Moebius Reactor upgrade has been removed from the Ghost Academy.

Scrap this and implement something that actually helps mech.
Armory price reduced to 100/50 to allow mech players to upgrade their units at a more reasonable time versus Protoss and Zerg.

This does not impact unit balance in any way, it simply cuts a gas cost to Terran's that want to go mech so they can afford their factories and starports, tanks, blue flame, etc. at more reasonable times in the game.

This change makes 200% more sense than the ghost change blizzard proposes. The ghost change has zero impact on mech, although it would cut 100 minerals/100 vespene gas. The armory change I just mentioned does essentially the same thing - it cuts 100 minerals/100 vespene gas but actually is a meaningful mech change to help mech out...
From http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442391
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Posts: 4,464
Oh no. They are seriously testing the tempest and hydra buff.

Hydra could use buffs, but halving their gas cost and keeping their stats the same is just ridiculous.
Edited by DukeInstinct on 1/31/2014 9:16 PM PST
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Posts: 4,728
01/31/2014 09:16 PMPosted by DukeInstinct
Oh no. They are seriously testing the tempest and hydra buff.

Hydra could use buffs, but halving their gas cost and keeping their stats the same is just ridiculous.


Not really. Even if hydralisks cost 0 gas, they would still have less HP and DPS than two stimmed marines, which would be of equal cost.
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Posts: 3,278
Not enough nerf to toss.

Not enough buff to terran. TvP early game is barely gonna be impacted by this. Blinks still gonna be ridiculous.

Oracles are still op.

Bio starting to be weak against zerg since mine nerf not every terran likes mech especially the current meta that is shaping up in TvZ.

Hydra buff is cool and glad zerg is getting some love but it is terran who need the bigger changes. They are barely competitive at highest lvl's.
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Posts: 2,266
01/31/2014 05:40 PMPosted by andrew
there's no way a true masters level player is beating a code s player no matter what the race is.


Seen it happen dozens of times on pro terran streams
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Posts: 5
I can't understand this balance test. Can you feel in the body about effects when Photon overcharging's duration is 50 seconds? I think Photon overcharging will nerf 40 seconds to make sure how it's effective. And later you can modify to hear feedback because this is not confirmed. What do you want to test like this change can hardly feel quality of experience?

Also, Tempest need nerf about anti-air damage, not buff. Why do you also give anti damage to Tempest to break through the swarm host-crawler line? I would have been keep silent if you buffed a Mothership or Carrier. I'd rather give to Mothership ability 'Time Bomb' or 'Planet Cracker' that Mothership had when wol is alpha ver, or add wol's Mass Recall ability. if Carrier, I will give additional strength to interceptors or will shorten the time to production about Carrier. Tempest is strong enough. There is no necessary to buff about anti-Battlecruiser, anti-Carrier, anti-Brood Lord.

Lastly, about Ghost, why do you make this game so simple by remove the upgrade? just undercut the Ghost's price rather than remove upgrade.

I am a person of non-English speaking. I write this with the help of Google Translate. So please understand if you gays find any wrong english.
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Posts: 19
and again giving feedback to the developers was a waste of time. This is probalby one of the most important balancepatches in sc2, everyone is looking at it cause we all saw the potential of this game when starbow got popular. Thank you blizzard for ruining sc2. Seems like its really time to move on to another game.
Edited by Nova on 1/31/2014 11:17 PM PST
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Posts: 24


I am a person of non-English speaking. I write this with the help of Google Translate. So please understand if you gays find any wrong english.


sorry, but this was brilliant
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Posts: 793
I like the changes so far, though I was thinking last night trying to sleep maybe a possible attempt at balance we can remove the bonus damage from the banelings verse light and add +8 to light for Roaches that way they'll want roaches over mass banelings which mass banelings even without the bonus damage verse light are devastating and cheap. Roaches last longer than banelings and also I believe it would deter Terran marine groups.

Or maybe just give Roaches bonus damage verse light and leave banelings as they are but as Terran mass baneling = instant lose lol unless you already have Siege tanks set up and having them focus fire the banelings as they come.

Maybe increase Hydra HP by like 10 or 20 points or give them a separate attack verse air so their anti air has +1 or 2 range more than they have against ground. I would like to see the mineral cost on Ghosts to go down to around 150 so it'd be 150/100 for a ghost too to make them a bit more viable, I love StarCraft 2 and I've been improving, but I do get tired of seeing mostly just Zergling, baneling, muta or just roach swarmhost etc. Hydras and Roaches need to be more viable in ZvT so it's not just Zergling bane muta 80% of the time but Hydras mainly need to have some exra HP considering how they're supposed to be Tier 2? Lowering the gas cost is a good start but they need to be less squishy.

As for Terran, thanks to Starbow, I have had an idea to remove the combat shield, make it cosmetic for mercenary skin? or something, give the Marine 50 HP instead of 45, and decrease the Marine and Marauder attack range by 1 and add an upgrade to the Tech Lab to increase the range by 1 to both marine and marauder at the cost of what the combat shield was.

I had more but I forgot.
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Posts: 455
Well, I am no pro but the tempest buff enabled me to take care of swarmhost with 4-6 tempest and zealot reinforcements ,there was no need for the zerg to be scared of sniping hatcheries and tech buildings (if zerg used a proper sim city) eg. not putting the tech near the edge of the map like behind the mineral line.
Now zerg should learn sim city like protoss have been doing for ages.

The tempest is not a problem in PvT cauz if scouted terran can just produce enough vikings to take care of the tempest before any real damage is done.

Note. Tempest builds will be viable only on maps like polar nights and others having dead space around.
(I miss star station now)

(Blink whining is map based so no heed will be given to it and as for oracles, they will not be as strong next season when the map pool will be updated because if blink cannot be used on a map it will reduce the possibilities when scouting. Protoss has a variety of builds to choose from, so lets keep it that way.)
Edited by SRS on 2/1/2014 12:21 AM PST
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Posts: 793
01/31/2014 10:19 PMPosted by Damen
Not enough nerf to toss.Not enough buff to terran. TvP early game is barely gonna be impacted by this. Blinks still gonna be ridiculous. Oracles are still op. Bio starting to be weak against zerg since mine nerf not every terran likes mech especially the current meta that is shaping up in TvZ. Hydra buff is cool and glad zerg is getting some love but it is terran who need the bigger changes. They are barely competitive at highest lvl's.


Sorry dude but I do a lot of bio terran and I'm doing great verse Zerg. I beat an ex-master level player, who was a challenge, with just Marine, Marauder, Med, Hellbat, Tank, and all it took was good micro. Splitting my soldiers, getting good concaves, every one of my soldiers fighting instead of running circles in the back, being split so banelings don't land devastating hits. Dropping Marauders to deal with specific buildings while attack his mining bases like I did earlier in example: I dropped 12 Marauders, 3/3 upgrade, to take out his baneling nest and ultra den and did that several times to delay his high tech units as well as sending in troops and considering that the biggest fight was most important I left those 12 marauders to do their thing each time and focused on the main battles. While he had to wait to replace the mining bases and his tech I was able to remax with 15 barracks? on 4 base really fast and attack while I had him stuck rebuilding his stuff until I eventually took out his Hive setting him even further back. The only losses I've had so far is because of Protoss, blink all ins on one-base being able to take out two base Is stupid, first time I lost it because it was a base race and I unfortunately missed one probe that built several pylons around the map. The second time I wasn't aggressive enough which is my fault but Colossi and storm no matter the high amount of Ghosts and Vikings you can't always land the EMPs on time and even if you did Colossi eat your bio so fast and storms just do the same and Archons are just more insult to injury with their splash damage plus extra verse bio.

I don't think Terran actually needs much buffing tbh, since I've been getting better I think they're doing good, however the Ghost energy upgrade removal with the +25 energy added on already I like but they should decrease the ghost mineral cost to about 150 and maybe the gas cost to 75? but 150/100 still sounds alright since Bio usually doesn't use up a lot of gas and Ghosts aren't very cost effective until you're on 3 base, could get them efficiently on 2 base but the number is more strict than 3 or 4 base. However keeping the upgrade and lower the ghost cost to 150/100 would be good or 125/75 would be nice since Hellbats already are preferred in ZvT so Ghosts would mainly be used in TvT or TvP. Another thing I don't think is very fair is that the ghost was nerfed to shet from the WoL days when it was still fresh being the cost of 150/150 with a huge EMP radius and a 45? damage snipe but then their snipe being reduced to a lame 25 (+25 verse psionic) and EMP radius being dropped by like 3/4 to what it is now and they make it cost more mineral? yeah it's 50 gas cheaper but increasing the mineral cost doesn't help at all, if you're going to nerf their special abilities like that you could at least lower the cost, yeah Ghosts are amazing verse anything light but when against marauders they aren't that great. They slaughter Medivacs and marines because of EMP and extra damage verse light and nukes are good especially when they catch you by surprise in early game to break the bunker defenses.

I'd like to see mineral cost on Ghosts drop for another reason.... High Templar are 50/125 I believe making it about 100/250 for an Archon but they're beafier than a Ghost with their Shields and do more verse light, but the Templar may be slower but their Feedback is devastating verse energy units and storm is devastating regardless, they cost far less than Ghosts but can do far more damage and can even be bought off of one base. They may not have a basic attack like Ghosts but I'm not asking for Ghost to be same cost, just a bit of a discount.

If you guys want more roach plays I'd say lower baneling damage verse light or remove it, their 20 damage with a cost of like 25/25 is already good, and give roaches +8 verse light to make them want roaches to help with marines or hellbats, give Hydras more HP or some more range maybe by 1 and keep the upgrade in tech.
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Posts: 113
All I can say from my view on it the changes did not personally affect tvp in many ways. I have tried different ghost timings (while I am no code S...) and they did not seem to be as effective still. There are people who could have done better im sure but I dont think they are going to have that much more luck that I would. That is more of a later game, push out ghosts last before I move out type of deal.

The problem with tvp is the extremely hard early-mid game. An oracle is almost certain to put the toss ahead in some way. Either kill of a mineral line or they know it is coming and they put up a really fast Ebay and turrets. That puts them back in expansions, troops, or anything else and the oracle can still harass really well. After that they can follow up with any opening from there.

The second problem is blink all ins. the MSC makes it much easier and more cost effective than before which is making it more dangerous. With a vision of 14 it cant even be sent away with a turret on the cliff. a group of marines, or even a viking. This gives them to many fronts to be able to attack on. The changes with the photon and timewarp were nice but do not affect much of the main problems. And the problem with photon wasnt so much the time (because they still can warp in a few waves of units) it was that they can make 2 of them.

The hydra buff did not seem to affect the game to much from my opinion... It did give them the little advantage and I was not expecting as much as they had, but with a little more testing this may be fine.

And the tempest buff was horrible when they went air toss... I think there should be some changes to this but it is a little much late game.
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