StarCraft® II

How the Zerg are better than the Tyranids

(Locked)

Posts: 27,470
Nit picking is the best you can do? I didn't think I'd need to point out higher intelligence in the Nids individually over the Zerg individually. I know for fact that the Nids are allowed more brain power individually than the Zerg. It allows for smarter on the fly thinking than smarter Queens and Broodmothers.
Posts: 4,020
In a match between the Carnifex and the Ultralisk, the Ultralisk only wins if it manages to get into melee range, and even then, it'll take a while to bring down, seeing as Carnifexes have some ridiculous regeneration. A few survived by burrowing underground while a planet was being burned to a crisp by orbital bombardment, got up, and wandered around a bit There isn't a great deal on scaling between the two, so there is no exact size of a Carnifex compared to a Ultralisk, leaving the side advantage a bit of a mystery in my mind.
Second point: Carnifex has ranged weapons. Specifically, ranged weapons that turn something like a Thor or the Colossus into scrap within the first two or three shots. As soon as a Carnifex with a ranged weapon goes up against an Ultralisk, the Ultralisk better run like hell is behind it, otherwise, it crashes and dies fast.

I concede to the Gargoyle vs Mutalisk match as Gargoyles are just flying Tyranids with guns, whereas the Mutalisk has a much more powerful attack, along with the ability to fly into space. However, I raise you a match of my own: What, in the Zerg's ground army, can hope to even try to match a Bio-Titan?


As stated earlier in comparing Carnifexs to the marines from their universes Ultras are much bigger. And not all Carnifexs have guns, they start with large claws but can evolve a Bio cannon which if I remember correctly gives up their melee. Ultras are also heavier armored than it's counterparts and if it has burrow charge it can close quickly.

Zerg answers to a Bio titan would probably be a Leviathan or swarming it Fliers and perhaps smaller units. That being said it would be a very hard fight though I feel Bio Titans could not be produced in large enough numbers to win the war (though battles would be changed from its presence quite a bit).

The must interesting thing is that Tyranids in their own verse take the role of quantity but vs the Zerg take the role of quality with Zerg going with quantity.

@zark: Zerg are actually quite intelligent, as stated in the Hydralisk short story and also as stated by a seasoned Terran commander, he could do his job just as well if he ordered his men to fire at everything that moved.
Edited by FegelKitteh on 5/1/2014 8:17 PM PDT
Posts: 9,341
Ultras are armored yes but so are many things in the 40k Universe.
Fegel you have to remember that everything in the 40k universe is matched to counter something in it's universe.

Also the Carnifex does keep it's melee attack. Most everything in 40k has a melee attack.

Ultralisks are also extremely costly and timely to build for the zerg.
Posts: 4,999
05/01/2014 08:07 PMPosted by FegelKitteh
In a match between the Carnifex and the Ultralisk, the Ultralisk only wins if it manages to get into melee range, and even then, it'll take a while to bring down, seeing as Carnifexes have some ridiculous regeneration. A few survived by burrowing underground while a planet was being burned to a crisp by orbital bombardment, got up, and wandered around a bit There isn't a great deal on scaling between the two, so there is no exact size of a Carnifex compared to a Ultralisk, leaving the side advantage a bit of a mystery in my mind.
Second point: Carnifex has ranged weapons. Specifically, ranged weapons that turn something like a Thor or the Colossus into scrap within the first two or three shots. As soon as a Carnifex with a ranged weapon goes up against an Ultralisk, the Ultralisk better run like hell is behind it, otherwise, it crashes and dies fast.

I concede to the Gargoyle vs Mutalisk match as Gargoyles are just flying Tyranids with guns, whereas the Mutalisk has a much more powerful attack, along with the ability to fly into space. However, I raise you a match of my own: What, in the Zerg's ground army, can hope to even try to match a Bio-Titan?


As stated earlier in comparing Carnifexs to the marines from their universes Ultras are much bigger. And not all Carnifexs have guns, they start with large claws but can evolve a Bio cannon which if I remember correctly gives up their melee. Ultras are also heavier armored than it's counterparts and if it has burrow charge it can close quickly.

Zerg answers to a Bio titan would probably be a Leviathan or swarming it Fliers and perhaps smaller units. That being said it would be a very hard fight though I feel Bio Titans could not be produced in large enough numbers to win the war (though battles would be changed from its presence quite a bit).

The must interesting thing is that Tyranids in their own verse take the role of quantity but vs the Zerg take the role of quality with Zerg going with quantity.


Some Carnifexes do indeed start of with their own ranged weapons, however, contrary to believe, they still do have melee attacks with their long front claws. And, with a few checks, I've found out that Utralisks are only 4.5 meters taller than a Carnifex, so I concede on height, but ranged combat will still rip Ultralisks apart. And they have dealt with monomolecular weapons against their armor.

(Fun fact: Hive Tyrants are taller than Carnifexes. Interesting.....)

Leviathan is the answer to the Bio-titan? Then the Zerg are screwed when a Hive Fleet shows up against them, as the Leviathan will be pulled into a space battle while the Bio-titans rip the Zerg forces to pieces, while the other things that Zerg have no direct answer to also rip them to shreds at both long and close range.

Edit: Don't forget the comparison between their power-armored troops on the first page.
Edited by Jester on 5/1/2014 8:23 PM PDT
Posts: 7,899
05/01/2014 08:22 PMPosted by Jester
ranged combat will still rip Ultralisks apart.


Are you going by stats or lore? In lore, Ultralisks have been shown to be virtually invincible to just about anything Terran infantrymen can put out. A single Ultralisk can kill dozens of Marines without even being wounded.

So, armor? Yes. In a big way.
Posts: 27,470
I wouldn't use marines as a good counter anyways. They're not meant to down the large units.
Posts: 4,999
05/01/2014 09:00 PMPosted by KnarledOne
05/01/2014 08:22 PMPosted by Jester
ranged combat will still rip Ultralisks apart.

Are you going by stats or lore? In lore, Ultralisks have been shown to be virtually invincible to just about anything Terran infantrymen can put out. A single Ultralisk can kill dozens of Marines without even being wounded.
So, armor? Yes. In a big way.

Stats or lore, doesn't matter which to me. They'll put up against the C-14, but they won't do so well against a Carnifex's bio-weapon. The SM's weapon may be able to annoy it, but I don't see it killing an Ultralisk unless they get some lucky shots in,

05/01/2014 11:50 PMPosted by Zarkun
I wouldn't use marines as a good counter anyways. They're not meant to down the large units.

I'm comparing the standard power-armor wearing infantry's weapons. Ideally, if we go for counters, I'd say Siege tanks and Marauders, possibly even Thors vs SMs using Lascannons/Meltas/Missle Launchers, and possibly Plasma Cannons for infantry, then the variable loadouts for every tank, which includes MOAR plasma/Melta/las. And a heavy cannon.
Edited by Jester on 5/2/2014 5:10 AM PDT
Posts: 400
05/01/2014 08:07 PMPosted by FegelKitteh
What, in the Zerg's ground army, can hope to even try to match a Bio-Titan?


Infestor with Neural Parasite. Forces suicide.
Posts: 7,899
Why suicide? For team-killing!
Posts: 27,470
Bad KO! No Cabooses!
Posts: 301
FOR OVERMIND SAKE, STOP DISCUSSING WHO WOULD WIN IN A WAR!!!!! THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHO WOULD WIN, THIS IS ABOUT WHO IS BETTER! THE ZERG ARE BETTER BECAUSE THEY LET PLANETS REGROW, ALLOWING THEM TO DEVOUR A SINGLE PLANET OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!! THE TYRANIDS DO NOT HAVE CENTRALIZED CONTROL, AND THAT IS BAD!!!! CENTRALIZED CONTROL IS SUPERIOR!!!!! STOP TALKING ABOUT WHO WOULD WIN!!!!!!! >:(
Posts: 8,158
*nukes the Overmind with a psi-void bomb* there now all the zerg go insane.
Posts: 4,999
05/02/2014 05:47 AMPosted by Maverick
05/01/2014 08:07 PMPosted by FegelKitteh
What, in the Zerg's ground army, can hope to even try to match a Bio-Titan?

Infestor with Neural Parasite. Forces suicide.

Which only delays their complete wipe-out for a little bit until the Infestors inevitably die, and the next wave of Tyranids, if they're even needed, adapt to the Neural Parasite. Which, seeing as a force has adapted the WH40K's Virus Bomb, and adapted to bacteria-sized daemons in their body, will happen.

05/02/2014 11:25 AMPosted by TheUndermind
FOR OVERMIND SAKE, STOP DISCUSSING WHO WOULD WIN IN A WAR!!!!! THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHO WOULD WIN, THIS IS ABOUT WHO IS BETTER! THE ZERG ARE BETTER BECAUSE THEY LET PLANETS REGROW, ALLOWING THEM TO DEVOUR A SINGLE PLANET OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!! THE TYRANIDS DO NOT HAVE CENTRALIZED CONTROL, AND THAT IS BAD!!!! CENTRALIZED CONTROL IS SUPERIOR!!!!! STOP TALKING ABOUT WHO WOULD WIN!!!!!!! >:(


In occupation, the Zerg are better, but in a fight and invasion, the Tyranids are what the Zerg wants to be when they grow up. And, as Morph so eloquently put, the Zerg's centralized controller is just as vulnerable as the rest of the Zerg, where as the Tyranids DECENTRALIZED control, which is the sum of all Tyranids minds and instinct wrapped into one psy-nulling void, isn't as vulnerable, and unlike the Zerg, can't be reasoned with.
Edited by Jester on 5/2/2014 4:33 PM PDT
Posts: 7,899
05/02/2014 11:25 AMPosted by TheUndermind
CENTRALIZED CONTROL IS SUPERIOR!!


Compare the rates of technological developments in the twentieth century of:

1. United States of America (decentralized).

2. People's Republic of China (heavily centralized).

I think you'll find you're completely incorrect in that regard. You were saying that the Zerg are superior in government to the Tyranids because they were more centralized. That's not true. In case you've forgotten, the Overmind is dead. Like it or not, Kerrigan rules now, over a decentralized Swarm where Broodmothers are driven to success by competition. And the Swarm is stronger.

05/02/2014 12:35 PMPosted by TheLostMorph
*nukes the Overmind with a psi-void bomb* there now all the zerg go insane.


There is no Overmind. The Overmind was a weakness. The Swarm has evolved.
Posts: 4,999
05/01/2014 08:07 PMPosted by FegelKitteh
@zark: Zerg are actually quite intelligent, as stated in the Hydralisk short story and also as stated by a seasoned Terran commander, he could do his job just as well if he ordered his men to fire at everything that moved.


Because I missed this earlier, and this ties into part of the versus with an earlier claim.
The problem with this statement is not that it shows that Hydralisk are intelligent, rather that Kerrigan is a sneaky little !@#$% and deceived the doctor long enough to get a bunch of Dominion officers together, and then kill them all off.
Posts: 27,470
Not just that, but telling someone to kill everything that moves doesn't make it smart. It makes the Zerg Queens and Broodmothers lazy as hell.
Posts: 27,470
I don't believe we have to do that. Because Knarled is right. Competition breeds strength, forces evolution at a faster rate. Because of that, the Swarm can grow stronger faster and better control the strengths it needs. If you'd get of your idiotic fanboy pedastool and use your brain for longer than, oh say, five seconds, maybe you'd see that. Hiveminds have, in fact, been proven to be less efficient than a decentralized set up in numerous situations. Decentralization allows each independent faucet of the group to react and make their own decisions faster and more efficiently than waiting on the Hivemind to make a decision.

You have stepped into the realm of logic and cold hard facts here, my young fanboy, and I suggest you be prepared to be effectively steam rolled by people who will go into far greater detail than I ever care to in these debates. In fact, KO is one of the great logic users of the Bar and he will take what you've said and rip it apart. One thing I'll point out about the Overmind is that it knew it couldn't remain in control. If it did, Amon would win. You're overlooking the purpose in SC lore, to BEAT Amon. The Overmind couldn't do that, but Kerrigan can because she's broken the overriding purpose. You have a problem with this, do yourself a favor and leave now. We do not suffer rude, illogical fanboys in the JRB.
Posts: 3,533
Hey I'm a rude fanboy zark.... But yes the zerg become strong when they have competition like that. The idea of queens forcing their forces to mutate and become deadlier is what makes the swarm more powerful. The cerebrates did that a little bit but were too linked together. Chaos breeds advancement sadly or it destories everything. The current zerg set up has enough chaos in it that the queens have to become stronger and so do their broods. I do miss the Overmind and Cerebrates (mainly the one we play as in sc1) however I do not mind the new set up.
Posts: 4,020
I will say that both have advantages and disadvantages. With the Overmind and Cerebrates in control individual Cerebrates are not trying to shred eachother a part when the Overmind dies but are vulnerable to something alike the UED and Kerrigan comes about and !@#$s everything up. With the Broodmothers they tear each other apart (which does help force evolution) but are less vulnerable to something like UED %^-*ing it up.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]