StarCraft® II

Creating Intelligence

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Some day we may be able to create advanced learning computers capable of replicating themselves or creating an improved human (through extensive genetic engineering for example).
If we do, some worry that if we make any mistake in our creation it may be impossible to reverse, as the new beings may surpass and replace us regardless of a design flaw, and it's not hard to make a mistake considering the complexity of the task.
So what's the best way we should approach this problem. I thought maybe we should wait until we can build a sufficiently powerful super computer to create a thoroughly believable virtual reality and place any new intelligence in that world such that it doesn't realize that there's a greater world, this way we can safely run exercises to see how the new mind learns and behaves.
Edited by Engineer on 5/20/2014 10:11 AM PDT
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Maybe some day.
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If we're going to reconstruct the Human DNA to something we "think" is more perfect then take it in slow steps.

Replace tiny parts at a time to see the positives of the change and the negative.

Otherwise I would prefer augmentation after birth (physical augmentation rather than genetic engineering), something I see as much more controlled and X100 more predictable (the results).
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Or. If you're the kind who have no care for certain people like me...

We can test the computers out on prison inmates in death row.

God knows they can be useful somehow instead of just wasting time, food, and taxpayer money until they finally get killed with super expensive drugs instead of a 50 cent bullet.
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07/03/2014 04:42 PMPosted by Luftwaffe
Or. If you're the kind who have no care for certain people like me...

We can test the computers out on prison inmates in death row.

God knows they can be useful somehow instead of just wasting time, food, and taxpayer money until they finally get killed with super expensive drugs instead of a 50 cent bullet.


... Are you psychotic?

Because that's what this reads like.

Advocating the use of unwilling human participants in experimental medical procedures is simply amoral to the most extreme degree. You'd have fit right in with Mengele.

That's not even to mention everything that's flat-out bonkers sociopathic about the last sentence...
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07/07/2014 07:48 PMPosted by Hylozoist
07/03/2014 04:42 PMPosted by Luftwaffe
Or. If you're the kind who have no care for certain people like me...

We can test the computers out on prison inmates in death row.

God knows they can be useful somehow instead of just wasting time, food, and taxpayer money until they finally get killed with super expensive drugs instead of a 50 cent bullet.


... Are you psychotic?

Because that's what this reads like.

Advocating the use of unwilling human participants in experimental medical procedures is simply amoral to the most extreme degree. You'd have fit right in with Mengele.

That's not even to mention everything that's flat-out bonkers sociopathic about the last sentence...


Depends. Why should their will be taken into account when they never took into account the people they butchered or tortured or raped?

These people have no rights, and the fact that we take care of them the way we do is idiotic to me.

Flat-out sociopathic? I'd call the last sentence money conscious as compared to sociopathic.

No one said you have to agree with me, but I'd prefer death-row prisoner testing rather than animal testing.

I have more love for the animals than the criminals. At least they don't butcher people.

I do advocate this use, and continue to do so, and I don't fit in with Mengele because he did not use people convicted of crimes like murder or or torture, mass-@%@%%@#!, etc. He used innocent people affected by the holocaust.

As for the tests, they're more practical tests as compared to his useless tests of "how much a person can survive in freezing water."

This test is a test of genetics that can possibly further humanity.

Do think before you categorize so quickly.
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07/08/2014 09:01 AMPosted by Luftwaffe
I have more love for the animals than the criminals. At least they don't butcher people.

Well, some do, on occasion.
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@Hylozoist
I'd really like to hear your opinion on the ending of the 2013 game "The Last of Us". Personally, I completely disagree with Joel's actions.
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Although I understand the emotions he would've experienced, the game developers confirmed that a cure would've been found, I believe Ellie accepted dying for the cause, I would predict that Ellie does not have exactly the brightest future ahead of her (being essentially a wanted mass murder with no close friends other than Joel and all this in a zombie apocalypse), and finally, how are we to justify all the murders those two committed on the way to get there if they decided not to do what they set off to do?
Edited by Engineer on 7/8/2014 11:15 AM PDT
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07/08/2014 11:14 AMPosted by Engineer
@Hylozoist
I'd really like to hear your opinion on the ending of the 2013 game "The Last of Us". Personally, I completely disagree with Joel's actions.
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Although I understand the emotions he would've experienced, the game developers confirmed that a cure would've been found, I believe Ellie accepted dying for the cause, I would predict that Ellie does not have exactly the brightest future ahead of her (being essentially a wanted mass murder with no close friends other than Joel and all this in a zombie apocalypse), and finally, how are we to justify all the murders those two committed on the way to get there if they decided not to do what they set off to do?


Joel is the epitome of selfish. That's my one sentence answer.
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07/08/2014 12:15 PMPosted by Luftwaffe
07/08/2014 11:14 AMPosted by Engineer
@Hylozoist
I'd really like to hear your opinion on the ending of the 2013 game "The Last of Us". Personally, I completely disagree with Joel's actions.
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Although I understand the emotions he would've experienced, the game developers confirmed that a cure would've been found, I believe Ellie accepted dying for the cause, I would predict that Ellie does not have exactly the brightest future ahead of her (being essentially a wanted mass murder with no close friends other than Joel and all this in a zombie apocalypse), and finally, how are we to justify all the murders those two committed on the way to get there if they decided not to do what they set off to do?


Joel is the epitome of selfish. That's my one sentence answer.

My question is, why do some people strongly agree with Joel? I've looked on threads on the subject elsewhere and there are many people who strongly enjoyed killing the Fireflies and there's people who say that what the Fireflies tried to do was the epitome of evil, while not mentioning the fact that the two main characters had just murdered hundreds and decided that it was essentially for nothing.
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07/08/2014 01:50 PMPosted by Engineer
07/08/2014 12:15 PMPosted by Luftwaffe
...

Joel is the epitome of selfish. That's my one sentence answer.

My question is, why do some people strongly agree with Joel? I've looked on threads on the subject elsewhere and there are many people who strongly enjoyed killing the Fireflies and there's people who say that what the Fireflies tried to do was the epitome of evil, while not mentioning the fact that the two main characters had just murdered hundreds and decided that it was essentially for nothing.


I could care less for his massacre of the fireflies, they didn't strike me as the most angelic group either. The ending in which he keeps Ellie

http://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-ended-perfectly-and-it-doesnt-need-a-s-534296961

That explains my deep hatred for something fictional and rather trivial and unimportant in life.

The fact that he destroys humanity's hope just because he has a relationship is god-awfully selfish. Give me a gun any day I would kill hi myself were I in that universe.

He saved one, doomed millions. Brilliant, mathematics alone tell you that's an idiotic trade.
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http://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-ended-perfectly-and-it-doesnt-need-a-s-534296961
Unfortunately I can't access that. Can you copy the text?
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07/08/2014 10:41 PMPosted by Engineer
http://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-ended-perfectly-and-it-doesnt-need-a-s-534296961
Unfortunately I can't access that. Can you copy the text?


"Joel spent the better part of a year with Ellie, and the two of them came to depend upon, trust, and eventually love one another as family. In the end, Joel, who had already lost one daughter, couldn't let himself lose another. He did something awful: he sacrificed humanity's last known hope for a cure just so that he wouldn't have to lose Sarah all over again. And then he did something worse: After all those months building trust, he lied to Ellie about it."

Funny how the review says that him lying to this little punk is worse than dooming Humanity to extinction...
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07/09/2014 08:06 AMPosted by Luftwaffe
07/08/2014 10:41 PMPosted by Engineer
http://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-ended-perfectly-and-it-doesnt-need-a-s-534296961
Unfortunately I can't access that. Can you copy the text?


"Joel spent the better part of a year with Ellie, and the two of them came to depend upon, trust, and eventually love one another as family. In the end, Joel, who had already lost one daughter, couldn't let himself lose another. He did something awful: he sacrificed humanity's last known hope for a cure just so that he wouldn't have to lose Sarah all over again. And then he did something worse: After all those months building trust, he lied to Ellie about it."

Funny how the review says that him lying to this little punk is worse than dooming Humanity to extinction...


Thank you, but how does this explain
07/08/2014 03:24 PMPosted by Luftwaffe
deep hatred for something fictional and rather trivial and unimportant in life
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07/09/2014 08:45 PMPosted by Engineer
07/09/2014 08:06 AMPosted by Luftwaffe
...

"Joel spent the better part of a year with Ellie, and the two of them came to depend upon, trust, and eventually love one another as family. In the end, Joel, who had already lost one daughter, couldn't let himself lose another. He did something awful: he sacrificed humanity's last known hope for a cure just so that he wouldn't have to lose Sarah all over again. And then he did something worse: After all those months building trust, he lied to Ellie about it."

Funny how the review says that him lying to this little punk is worse than dooming Humanity to extinction...


Thank you, but how does this explain
07/08/2014 03:24 PMPosted by Luftwaffe
deep hatred for something fictional and rather trivial and unimportant in life


I hate Joel, despite him being just a video game character. It just completely defies logic that anyone would do what he did. And that's probably because what may be wrong logically is right emotionally (for him at least).
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07/10/2014 05:51 AMPosted by Luftwaffe
I hate Joel, despite him being just a video game character. It just completely defies logic that anyone would do what he did. And that's probably because what may be wrong logically is right emotionally (for him at least)

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your statement earlier to mean that you hate fictional topics because they're fictional and that the page explains that. Nevermind.
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07/10/2014 11:58 AMPosted by Engineer
07/10/2014 05:51 AMPosted by Luftwaffe
I hate Joel, despite him being just a video game character. It just completely defies logic that anyone would do what he did. And that's probably because what may be wrong logically is right emotionally (for him at least)

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your statement earlier to mean that you hate fictional topics because they're fictional and that the page explains that. Nevermind.


Strangely enough I still thought it was a great game, despite my hatred for Joel and unwarranted hatred for Ellie (although she understood what happened she can't really be blamed for much, but she definitely receives some blame).
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07/11/2014 07:40 AMPosted by Luftwaffe
07/10/2014 11:58 AMPosted by Engineer
...
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your statement earlier to mean that you hate fictional topics because they're fictional and that the page explains that. Nevermind.


Strangely enough I still thought it was a great game, despite my hatred for Joel and unwarranted hatred for Ellie (although she understood what happened she can't really be blamed for much, but she definitely receives some blame).

Oh yes, I didn't play the game but I watched a slightly condensed (6 hr) playthrough and thought it was a great game, I'm looking forward to watching or playing a sequel if one comes out (I already watched the DLC).
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I haven't played Last of Us, and don't know much about the story... But going by what's said here, there's a part of it which deals with one of the characters electing not to allow a young girl he's protecting to be sacrificed to save humanity?

Is that the gist of it?

If that's the case, it's a perfectly moral decision. Nobody has the right to demand a sacrifice of others, no matter the circumstances.

Forcing that sacrifice is immoral, even if the end result of not forcing it is extinction. There are no circumstances where it is moral to force another to give their life. You can choose to give your own life if you want, but you cannot morally force that choice on another.

Are they deaths they participate in murder or defense? Again, I don't know much about the game - but there's a difference between killing to protect yourself or in defense of others, and going out of your way to kill for the hell of it.
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07/12/2014 12:21 PMPosted by Hylozoist
I haven't played Last of Us, and don't know much about the story... But going by what's said here, there's a part of it which deals with one of the characters electing not to allow a young girl he's protecting to be sacrificed to save humanity?

Is that the gist of it?

If that's the case, it's a perfectly moral decision. Nobody has the right to demand a sacrifice of others, no matter the circumstances.

Forcing that sacrifice is immoral, even if the end result of not forcing it is extinction. There are no circumstances where it is moral to force another to give their life. You can choose to give your own life if you want, but you cannot morally force that choice on another.

Are they deaths they participate in murder or defense? Again, I don't know much about the game - but there's a difference between killing to protect yourself or in defense of others, and going out of your way to kill for the hell of it.


"immoral"

Morals are subjective, didnt we go through this as our very first debate together? :)
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