StarCraft® II

Myco's Guide to Lower Leagued toss players.

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Posts: 4
Fantastic guide!
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Posts: 2,753
I would appreciate someone answering my questions, please.

Currently my issue seems to be producing enough units to hold off the early surge of my opponent. At worst I get swamped, at best I'm on my back foot. Generally what should one's standing army be/look like as you prepare to expand? I realize there are no 'definite' answers and a lot depends on scouting. I like to start with a 3 gate/robo and then expand, but I'm seem to always be a little short-handed especially vs. terran. The critical time frame is btw/ 6-9 min into the game....I don't like getting blocked in my base and I definitely like to take the initiative...thanks.

3g robo expo against terran,if you wanna play somewhat safe,expand after 1st colossi,or,if the terran isnt very agressive,expand after 1st immortal,make sure you scout with ob to know what his up to.Playing agressive against a terran early game is risky and I wouldnt recommanded it.Although you can do some warprism harass while you expand behind it.

If you are against zerg however,you wanna be pressure with 3g and expand behind it,just becareful to not lose your army,and dont overcommit(pull back if you see bunch of roach,even if your army maybe enough to take it,or lots of speedlings).

12/26/2011 12:18 PMPosted by evolutioN
although zerg in lower ranked all the time rush it with zerlings, I cant really go for fast exp forge yet. :( do you have any advise about that?


Wallout with gate+cyber+zealot blocking choke.If its a 6 pool we're talking about,scout it,chrono out zealot and wall yourself in with forge/pylons.Also if you do scout it earlier,drop forge+cannon+complete walloff.Use probes to help ur zealot.
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Posts: 4
Hey myco, I am a new starcraft 2 player (got it on christmas) and I basicaly suck. I have been doing nothing but practice leauge games so I have almost no experience. I know practice makes perfect but I just can't teach myself the game. I was wondering if you could mentor me. Please respond to this post. Thanks.
Edited by MrMayhem on 12/27/2011 2:59 PM PST
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Posts: 2,753
Umm I actually dont go on SC nearly as much as I do,I could try to give u a few lesson when possible,but I cant be sure when.If you happens to see me on(I'll try to be on for at least a couple time this week),msg me and I can try my best to help.Skype would help alot if you have one.Also i'd suggest you work on the very very basic.

You dont have to know when to expand,or like how to keep constant production,but at least I expect you to know what each unit does,unit countering,and a very basic idea as to what you are doing.

Also you can go to Myco's Mentoring Channel and ask for help there,although I'd suggest you at least have some solid basics before you go there,as we work mostly with simple/advanced strat and mechanics,no one would really spend time explaining what each unit/ablitly/building does.
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Posts: 14
Hey man, not a bad guide. However there is one thing I noticed, on Probe production you said don't hold your worker production until 80ish or unless you're doing something crazy (4 gate or some kind of rush play) while I would tend to agree with you I would say that it's still acceptable to hold production at 60ish. The reason being if you want to boost your army with some Zealots or a few extra stalkers if you're doing a push. I would say it's valid against Zerg more than Terran because in general you need to end a Zerg game pretty quick since, if they're any good, they'll out macro you. Anything below 60 though better be because you scouted an all in or some kind of crazy play.

Also hokeypocus, try going with the 1 gate FE opening into 3 gate Robo.

Also yes I know I'm Bronze people (Not directed at you Myco), so if you're one of those trolls that goes "OH HAI YOU BRONZE YOU NO MATTER" don't bother replying to me.
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Posts: 2,753
Hey man, not a bad guide. However there is one thing I noticed, on Probe production you said don't hold your worker production until 80ish or unless you're doing something crazy (4 gate or some kind of rush play) while I would tend to agree with you I would say that it's still acceptable to hold production at 60ish. The reason being if you want to boost your army with some Zealots or a few extra stalkers if you're doing a push. I would say it's valid against Zerg more than Terran because in general you need to end a Zerg game pretty quick since, if they're any good, they'll out macro you. Anything below 60 though better be because you scouted an all in or some kind of crazy play.

Also hokeypocus, try going with the 1 gate FE opening into 3 gate Robo.

Also yes I know I'm Bronze people (Not directed at you Myco), so if you're one of those trolls that goes "OH HAI YOU BRONZE YOU NO MATTER" don't bother replying to me.

What you need to realize is:"OH HAI YOU BRONZE YOU NO MATTER"
:D
Jking aside,the point of having a 80ish probe economy being,while your final army maybe slightly smaller,you can very very easily rebuild your army once lost if you have the eco to back it up.Toss generally have a hard time recovering from losses and if you lost your entire army early-mid game its usually always gg.But with suffient eco+warpgate late game,you can afford to suffer some losses if needed,and replace them immediately.

Usually a toss army comes out ahead in a 200/200 battle anyway,the few xtra zlot and stalker isnt gonna change much.However,most time you will lose a good portion of your army,despite maybe winning the battle.Both zerg and terran can remass fairly quickly(especailly zerg).If your eco cannot allow you do at least catch up with their rebuilding speed,you will eventually lose in the war of attrition.

Having about 10 xtra gateway units are not as good as being able to replace 15+ unit the moment they are lost.

Also,despite popular belieft,with proper pressuring early,and good build,a toss can outmacro both zerg and terran,due to warpgate as a such awesome production tool.The reason this isnt done so often is the fact that our basic gateway unit kinda sucks late game.It is still viable to mass gateway against zerg/terran late game and come out ahead in macro/
Edited by VMSMyco on 1/7/2012 2:34 PM PST
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Posts: 2
what if I know what I should be doing, but I can't micro/macro good enough? what If I understand how should I be microing, but I cant do that in game? lol...

Would you give me some advice to improve micro/macro?
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Posts: 1
would you be wiling to coach me in sc2 im a new protoss player and i need help to get me to remember things like supply, to spawn units, and afk probes, i always end up with a need for pylons, to small of an army when i have alot of minerals and gas to spare, and probes siting at a mined out base can u help?
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Posts: 2,753
I have sometime to coach this weekend maybe,but after that i may not be able to be on consistently,msg me in game if you see me online.
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Posts: 9
Thank you so much for the guide.

It took me a long time to understand WC3, each and every units strength, weakness, and general overview, how to counter, and what units to choose in the heat of the moment.

I suspect it will take even longer for SC2. Probably won't be Silver till season 6 as I'm a casual gamer with a full time job.

80 workers per base is way more than what I was using. I thought I was saturating my base with 2 workers per mineral and 3 workers per gas. Guess not!
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Posts: 2,753
Thank you so much for the guide.

It took me a long time to understand WC3, each and every units strength, weakness, and general overview, how to counter, and what units to choose in the heat of the moment.

I suspect it will take even longer for SC2. Probably won't be Silver till season 6 as I'm a casual gamer with a full time job.

80 workers per base is way more than what I was using. I thought I was saturating my base with 2 workers per mineral and 3 workers per gas. Guess not!

not 80 worker per base,its 80 worker total per game usually xD.
2.5 worker per mineral line+3 worker per gas saturate a base.
So usually 26 woker is enough,but you want more so you can transfer.
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Posts: 2
Myco, how can I improve my basic mechanics? is there any exercise or soemthing? or it is just something that Ill be learning playing more and more?

would you give me some advice?
im getting a little better at macroing.. but when it comes to micro battle I keep on stacking my gold up... I dont know how to set control groups properly and stuff like that.

helps?
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Posts: 9
Thank you so much for the guide.

It took me a long time to understand WC3, each and every units strength, weakness, and general overview, how to counter, and what units to choose in the heat of the moment.

I suspect it will take even longer for SC2. Probably won't be Silver till season 6 as I'm a casual gamer with a full time job.

80 workers per base is way more than what I was using. I thought I was saturating my base with 2 workers per mineral and 3 workers per gas. Guess not!

not 80 worker per base,its 80 worker total per game usually xD.
2.5 worker per mineral line+3 worker per gas saturate a base.
So usually 26 woker is enough,but you want more so you can transfer.


Okay that makes a lot more sense thanks.
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Posts: 2,753
Myco, how can I improve my basic mechanics? is there any exercise or soemthing? or it is just something that Ill be learning playing more and more?

would you give me some advice?
im getting a little better at macroing.. but when it comes to micro battle I keep on stacking my gold up... I dont know how to set control groups properly and stuff like that.

helps?

Playing more would be the best idea.There are excersises that can help you,but just playing more games is usually enough.

To prevent money from stacking up,remeber to go back to your base,and produce something immediately before and after an engagement,if the opponet suddenly push you,after some immediate micro(ff,pull bak colossi etc...) go warp in some stuff then come back asap.Hotkey and control groups are vital,so take your time to learn them as well.
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Posts: 1,059
You're right DMac. I usually play as Terran and I really hate the Voidray rush, even though it's not hard to crush... I think it's just annoying and it doesn't bring any new challenge to the game (for me). I'm not playing to get easy wins, I'm playing for the challenge of it. And if I see a million cannons and scan fourteen stargates, I know exactly what to do and that it's going to take 30+ min... it's a win for me... but a really boring win.
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Posts: 2,753
You'd find 3g star vr to be a much bigger pain in the !@# lol =).
Cannon turtulers are retarded,but at least you know that once you have nuff ez win you wont be playing nubs that lvl.
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Posts: 1
thanks this helped alot ^^
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Posts: 12
protoss i think has the slight upper hand the warp gates and all i dunno hard to beat but its possible, everyone has their preferences. check out my school project guys winningstarcraft.com big ups thanks !
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Posts: 2
Thanks for the guide! I just bought SC2 yesterday, and I'm having to do some analysis after losing my first 3 matches.
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Posts: 10
Thanks for the info.
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