StarCraft® II

Left 2 Die – Beta Feedback Thread

Posts: 321
Honestly, it's kind of boring. It would be cooler if both sides were playable, but on the zerg side you only control the hero units.
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Posts: 508
People talk about tanks, marines, marauders, PFs.... all that is BS.

3 bunkers and a handful of SCVs is all you need to beat standard difficulty.

Then you just need to mass reapers. Reapers dominate everything except for the occasional and rare armored or air unit (which just gets owned anyway).

I think I beat the campaign mission on very hard in 1.5-2 days(or less?) using reapers.

Anyway I didn't know there were different difficulties, good to know I guess.

Edit: if I could delete my post I would... forgot this is a bug report section lol... there should be a discussion thread too.
Edited by Xapti on 1/25/2011 11:46 PM PST
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Posts: 16
I also am of the opinion that there 'ought to be more human controlled players in the game. Be it the zombie heroes, or additional human players!

Otherwise, a very fun spin on an already great level.

(Definitely a good workout for your computer... Even the best hardware will drop into the 40 FPS at some point!)
Edited by Telpeurion on 1/26/2011 12:36 AM PST
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Posts: 246
way too easy
felt like just another remake of one of the campaign mission outbreak
it has great potential as survival game however the difficulty of this game doesnt just cut it
i know its beta so im hoping for some great changes and updates
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Posts: 1
I agree with most everything VaporGecko said. Something i'd like to add is that this map could learn a thing or two about classic TDs: the units need to scale over time. Doesn't matter if you need to change the plot a little or something to explain why they are growing in strength over time, the point is they should become harder and harder to kill. A game like this would be much more fun if it was a race to kill all the buildings before the enemies become unbearably hard to kill.

The finale idea posted earlier sounds good too.

An anti-building unit, perhaps? Something that does extra damage versus bunkers and missile turrets just to change things up a notch, maybe have it spawn with a large horde so it forces you to target it down before it can get in range. (is that what the kaboomer is supposed to do? It never lived long enough for me to find out)

Bosses need to be BOSSES. They should take combined effort from both of the players to take down. This is supposed to be a team game after all, right? Adding to that, the map needs to be more mobile in some way...if you are bunkered up at every entrance it's difficult to assist your teammate, especially given that bosses spawn with little warning.

There's more, but I think you guys get the gist of it.




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Posts: 22
Really fun, but really easy.
This would be awesome id you had another team of Protoss Players competing with you to kill the most buildings as well as both teams attacking each other during the day.
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Posts: 8,734
I was pleasantly surprised by the Hunterling and I wouldn't mind seeing more of that type of zerg in HotS (preferrably, with a difference model), perhaps as an alternative to Roaches?
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf on 1/26/2011 4:07 AM PST
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Posts: 224
Just add more zerg
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Posts: 21
Important bug to report: there is a perfectly good mattress in the garbage in the lower right corner of the base. Somebody, in the middle of a zerg attack, went through the time to throw a mattress into the only dumpster in the entire colony. And they are taking up the whole dumpster! You'd think trash would pile up near it with the mattress holding up the entrance like that.



But seriously, it is very strange that is the only dumpster in the entire compound... and its got a mattress in it. If it was an infested mattress you'd burn it, so its very strange. They took the effort to bring it... kinda a nit pick thing... mostly a joke.

Actually a Bug: a bug I did notice is if you watch the replay, it does strange things to the talking head in the lower left during what should be a 'briefing' ) I forget what it is that conflicts with it, but some part of the replay hud gets in the way and it causes it to behave oddly.


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I mentioned it before, and most everybody agrees there needs to be difficulty variation of some kind. I tried the map again and I wasn't even attacked by the super ultralisk because I had completely won by the 3rd night. It was more than laughable. Its a co-op custom map too, so it shouldn't just be 'casual-brutal' like in the single player, there should be "master, insane, nightmare, 'OH MY GOD! He's WACKED', and impossible" (maybe not the SC1 quote difficulty, but there should be really tough levels)


There should be some sort of penalty to attacking the zerg. While that's the whole point, it draws up to a VERY anti-climactic game when you just rush everything in your base out to tear down as much as possibly in the few minutes of daylight, rush back... hold for a 'meh' counter-attack, then repeat. When you attack you should prompt zerg attacks (like straight up zerg, who can live through daylight and shoot air and stuff, though in significantly less numbers) And if they break your base, it should trigger strange events like SC1 style queens flying in and trying to infect your burning structures. (this should happen anyway if you try to mine outside your base; something that should be required but the base-side minerals are far too numerous to require it)

So while you take out the map, it should actually start getting harder. Not just like brutalisks (which I haven't actually seen) or Stanks or whatever, but like nydus worms, zerg drop pods, and mutalisks. "All-in" (the mission) type stuff as the swarm starts pulling in troops to make sure they can seize the colony. It will make research past "helleon.... Medic.... siege tank or bunker upgrade?" more important in terms of biomass usage.

The corners of the instalation are never really attacked either. The spotters should show up with a handful of mutas towards the end of it to require the placement of turrets or an active and roaming group of marines and/or golieths to take out air units.

Perhaps even once you've cleared the colony you need to hold out for one last night before the hyperion can land with enough ships to safety transport the survivors away. That way the map feels like it comes to a climactic end, rather than just coming to a 'victory' screen as the last of your helleon swarm torches broodlings.
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When the map was originally pitched at Blizzcon (and how I think it is still described) its a fight against 'endless waves of zerg' which I feel it should be still. It certainly is NOT endless, as it can be cleaned up very quickly.

A delay tactic could include destructible rocks blocking off some of the back colony segments. Stuff that will only be torn down by zerg once you've cleaned up the closer infected settlements. (so you attack your nearby zerg buildings, then have to retreat... during the night the next line of settlements open up as zerg tear through the rocks and come at you in bigger numbers)
This at least would force the player wait out a set number of nights, rather than literally clearing half the map on his 1st day (which is very possible when 2 players focus on getting upgraded blue-flame helleons by the end of night 1 and then pull all of their marines from the bunkers to help clear)



I really looked forward to this map, but as it is I'd almost rather play the single player since limited resources (and brutal setting) makes it harder. I want to have to discuss strategy with my team mate to see how many waves we can beat, or theorize on possibilities when a random tech is dropped and we are forced to change strategies. As it stands, its a play one time "heh, that was neat" and then leave because it presents no real difficulty or replayability. Even letting you play Protoss (or even zerg in a kerrigan vs. renegade cerebrate) would improve the map greatly.
Edited by Pants on 1/26/2011 6:27 AM PST
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Posts: 21
Edit: Difficulties do exist!?

OMG! I feel like a fool. I totally was leaving feedback for the starjeweled and people were talking about "vs. A.I." and I was like "wha? that works?" so then I wondered "does... .vs. AI. work in Left 2 Die? no.... but there is TOTALLY a difficulty option on the right side of the screen. I feel VERY silly for not seeing it.

So there is my feedback. MAKE THE DIFFICULTIES EVIDENT! I just join the maps, not create them. throw up a note on in the help (stuff that appears on the right side when the game starts) " too easy? try the harder difficulties" Most custom maps I'm used to having in level buttons or votes. Not requiring the user to create the game a certain way (though that isn't a problem by any means, just I think many users are not used to such well created maps yet)

For everybody out there who say its too easy, try the harder difficulties (i haven't yet. but letting others know)

My other feedback above stands though. Especially about the destructable rocks that only zerg can remove after you've cleared the settlements near your base. This would allow the game to go on longer and in very distinct 'waves' of beginning, middle, and end. Since the player cannot build starports, it should not be a problem (just would require some rearranging of the outer buildings and the placement of rocks on specific ramps and walkways)


Sorta bug: I appreciate how it knows to convert the entire base to the correct player control when choosing to play the game without a 2nd player, however I do not appreciate how it chooses not to drop the 2nd group of units nor does it allow a 400 pop (2 players at 200 each = 400) I would not mind the lack of 2nd group, but the pop cap thing seems out of place. (if this was a design choice to encourage multiplayer I find it reasonable I guess, but still)

Suggestion: Let population cap be a setting at start? (especially if other challange mode variants are thrown in to include/exclude bosses, specific techs, or whatever other people are suggesting. A challenge mode variant might deny mech units, or deny infantry other than the marine and marauder. Perhaps include excessive air attacks or nothing but super units)
Edited by Pants on 1/26/2011 6:37 AM PST
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Posts: 2
I think the game is awasome :D
Although i think that when you win, it should do a little more than just show the standard "you won!" thingy. Like some sort of retrospective panel showing what happened (in numbers) during the game. Some score you could set to beat. idk. But make it a little bit more rewarding.

Somthing to make it more a game on it's own.

love you blizz! :D
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Posts: 1,381
To those of you who say it's easy, create the game and choose brutal.

It's hard.
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Posts: 4
Maybe you can have the infested reconstruct/construct new buildings to make it somehow longer and also add a special unit with the ability to turn your marines and other units into infested units when their low on health. Other than that this game is fun and has a lot of potential.
Edited by Truz on 1/26/2011 6:34 AM PST
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Posts: 147
It's the same thing as the campaign but with a couple "special infected" I really don't think this should count as a new map to be honest =/
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- Technical Support
Posts: 4,256
Would also be great if there was a Global Leaderboard or high score system. Developing this feature would also help other custom map makers put global leaderboards in their games.
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Posts: 1
I thought it was a good idea but it is way too easy. The difficulty really needs to be increased. Also what about starting with less resources and having to go out to find more.

I think it would be cool if we had the main base and during the day we had to either search for more resources, or survivors/reinforcements, or biomass to upgrade.

It is too easy to create an unstoppable army with the resources we have.
I think less resources to start with and a harder difficulty would improve the game.
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Posts: 21
01/26/2011 6:38 AMPosted by Dustin
It's the same thing as the campaign but with a couple "special infected" I really don't think this should count as a new map to be honest =/

so... you think it should count as an old map? It was pitched as "a multiplayer version of the campaign map". Were you expecting anything else?



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Since people (namely me and like 2 other people) are throwing ideas around, I suggest the special infected perhaps have more forwarning but themselves are more difficult. Like a wave happens and its announced that the next wave will have a surge of a particular type of special infested. That way you are forced to spend the day adjusting your defenses to prepare for the night. (siege tanks would not be particularly good vs. hunters for example, assuming hunters were able to leap into your ranks fast enough to make siege tank fire hurt you. Ka-Boombers in mass would harm your infantry to the point even marine/medic balls would die before them. etc.)
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Posts: 58
Very fun map when played on brutal difficulty (yes, there IS a brutal difficulty for all you "needs a difficulty option" guys).

My only request is that the zerg needs more anti-infantry units. It's way too tempting to just mass marine/medic on every single difficulty and get away with it. Mix things up so we're encouraged to get more unit types.
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Posts: 8,734
01/26/2011 9:59 AMPosted by Moradon
My only request is that the zerg needs more anti-infantry units. It's way too tempting to just mass marine/medic on every single difficulty and get away with it. Mix things up so we're encouraged to get more unit types.


Maybe reintroducing the Lurker?
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Posts: 183
I like it, but i think you need to put more zerg buildings to destroy.
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