StarCraft® II

Explain why 8800gt > HD 4870

Posts: 45
Seriously, isnt the HD 4870 supposed to be better than the 8800gt?

Im getting serious FPS issues here. WAAY significantly less fps.

Ingame 1v1 i always had 60 fps on extreme with 8800gt
Ingame 1v1 with HD 4870 im getting 25 - 30?

wtf?
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MVP - Technical Support
Posts: 4,215
Let try this first

*Checking your graphics card is up to date (NVIDIA/GEFORCE/GTX)
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us
If that does not work try reverting to 260.99

*Checking your graphics card is up to date (ATI/AMD/Radeon/Catalyst)
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx
If that does not work try reverting to 10.10e
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Posts: 437
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/compare,2484.html?prod[4603]=on&prod[4544]=on

comparing the two, under high load the 8800gt seems to perform better, with certain applications.
Edited by KiFirE on 3/12/2011 9:11 AM PST
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Support Forum Agent
Posts: 5,037
It sort of depends on which HD 4870 you have and what settings you're running at. For both the 8800GT and 4870, they come in 512 MB flavors and 1 GB flavors. If you're running a 8800GT 1 GB vs a 4870 512 MB and have your settings up high, the 4870 will struggle and have to resort to using system RAM. The narrow 64-bit memory bus going to system RAM will give it quite a hard time. The 4870 1 GB models handle higher settings much smoother. I don't quite have 4870 handy right now but I have the one model above it: the 4890 1 GB. It floats between 50-90 FPS (I'm uncapped) in Windowed Full Screen mode with two monitors, and I expect more if I did go into Full screen mode with a single monitor.

In addition to Archer's comment about using the Catalyst 10.10e hotfix drivers, make sure you don't have any driver-enforced settings turned on or your results will be skewed in favor of the one that does not have any driver-enforced settings. Open the Catalyst Control Center, click Options -> Preferences -> Restore Factory Defaults


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Posts: 45
I dont have catalyst installed because ive been told catalyst sucks and created problems so i have just the driver.

Windows 7 64bit

both cards were the 512 mb

EVGA 8800gt 512mb DDR3
Diamond Sapphire HD 4870 512mb GDDR5

Most people say its a "Huge performance boost from 8800GTS"

the 8800gts is even better than 8800gt

Device manager says

Driver date: 1/26/2011
Driver version: 8.821.0.0

did some searching and that seems to be the latest driver.
would seem silly for me to have to search and re-install drivers multiple times to find "the right one"
Why cant there just be 1 driver like nvidia? I never ever had driver problems with nvidia.

@KiFirE There were only 2 games that performed better under load. I doubt starcraft would be in there.
Edited by KingOfTaurus on 3/12/2011 3:50 PM PST
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- Technical Support
Posts: 4,214
03/12/2011 3:49 PMPosted by KingOfTaurus
I dont have catalyst installed because ive been told catalyst sucks and created problems so i have just the driver.


Catalyst is the driver, much like ForceWare used to be the name for Nvidia's drivers.

03/12/2011 3:49 PMPosted by KingOfTaurus
the 8800gts is even better than 8800gt


The 8800 GTS is actually lower-end than the GT edition. The GTS is the weakest of the 8800 lineup.

03/12/2011 3:49 PMPosted by KingOfTaurus
did some searching and that seems to be the latest driver.


I believe Catalyst 11.2's dated a bit after that, but I could be wrong; I've been stuck on 10.10e for months because of the issues in 10.12 and beyond.

Try installing the full suite altogether. You can get the x86 (32-bit) Vista/7 variant here:

http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win7-32.aspx

Or the 64-bit edition here:

http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win7-64.aspx

Be sure to download the "Catalyst Software Suite" and install everything it comes with. The Catalyst Control Center offers quite a bit of functionality; there's really not much reason to not install it. If your FPS is still chugging after the full install, try what Dat recommended:

03/12/2011 9:15 AMPosted by datth
Open the Catalyst Control Center, click Options -> Preferences -> Restore Factory Defaults


That would clear out anything that may hinder your FPS, such as super-sample or edge-detect anti-aliasing.
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Edited by Kodiack on 3/12/2011 4:06 PM PST
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Posts: 45
Did the driver update and all the other things reccomended by Kodiack. No difference in FPS.

Sad.

maybe its the difference between DX10 and DX 10.1
(the 8800 uses 10 and the 4870 uses 10.1)
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Support Forum Agent
Posts: 5,037
maybe its the difference between DX10 and DX 10.1
(the 8800 uses 10 and the 4870 uses 10.1)


It should not be that as StarCraft II only uses DirectX 9 libraries. It doesn't touch 10, 10.1 or 11. 10.1 is still faster than 10 for a good deal of operations.

Most 4870s use two PCI Express power plugs to power the video card. Do you have them both in and not daisy-chained to anything if one is on an adapter?

Can you go to the Catalyst Control Center, click on information -> Software, select and copy all of the items inside and paste it here? Do the same with Hardware as well.

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Posts: 45
Software:

http://pastebin.com/i45xV1CC
(i reverted to the newer drivers upon no change when using the older drivers, ensuring that the older drivers were being used and not the new ones)

Hardware:

http://pastebin.com/QGAuVD5J

And as an added bonus System info:

http://pastebin.com/Ggruu4pg

also as i posted in another thread, The edges of explosions are cut off with this card.. they werent like that with the 8800.

I have noticed a change in what things look like with the change of cards too.. everything seems a slight bit prettier.. added detail and such. Minor but noticeable.

Oh yeah, the power cord... Ones direct from the psu, the other one uses an adapter connected to the line that comes out and is only used by the cd drive, and theres never any cd's in the drive so its basically dedicated to the card as well.
Edited by KingOfTaurus on 3/13/2011 3:01 PM PDT
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Support Forum Agent
Posts: 5,037
I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary in any of those. You're getting the full PCI Express lanes but both your core clock and memory clocks are overclocked 50 MHz each, probably just a factory overclock.

I'd make sure that your BIOS settings for C1E and Speedstep are turned off, and also try resetting the game completely by doing this:

Rename the Blizzard Entertainment folder inside of C:\ProgramData to something else
Delete the Documents\StarCraft II\variables.txt file

Start the game up and it should start rebuilding everything. The first couple games may be slow as it rebuilds the data.

We do recommend you using 10.10e or 10.11 though as the other ones will have visual oddities with the possibility of crashing.
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Posts: 45
That seems to have done the trick. Renaming that folder and such. Getting higher framerates, but thers still an occasional hang that never was there before.

Could just be that the 4870 isnt as good as the 8800gt in this specific case.
Or its making the CPU bottleneck more obvious. (since starcraft only uses 1 core out of 4)
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Support Forum Agent
Posts: 5,037
The occasional hang might be the game just rebuilding the shaders. Memory management on both cards are different and are based on their respective drivers' ability to do so but we do not recommend Ultra or Extreme settings for either of these cards due to the amount of memory on it. They exceed 512 MB and you'll find yourself swapping with system RAM often and that's a major performance drop.
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