StarCraft® II

I think it's time for a buff to Nukes.

Ever since the patch that added large amount of hit points to lots of Protoss and mainly Zerg structures, Terran has been using nukes that were designed for the days before those changes. The reason those structures had HP buffs was to prevent drop play sniping ( Marauders mainly ). I find that completely understandable, however Blizzard never changed nukes to make up for the added HP of these buildings.

Although nukes easier to get than SC1, SC1 nukes are far far more effective. It used to take 2 nukes to kill a command center / hatchery / nexus. TvP specifically you could do 1 nuke and an EMP if I recall and take out a Nexus.

Am I asking Blizzard to make Nukes this powerful again? No. What I am asking for is that it take LESS THAN 5 NUKES to kill a Nexus or Lair / Hive ( They will take 5 because of shield / health regen, but 4 if its at the same exact time ). I'm thinking of 3 nukes doing the job would be a reasonable number. It's not like 3 nukes is extremely realistic in the first place, but at least POSSIBLE.

If a Blizzard employee reads this: Please explain your intentions for the Nuke if it's not to take primary buildings( like it was in SC1 ). I understand it can be used occasionally in TvT to force tanks to unsiege but beyond that it's a pretty big gimmick.
Reply Quote
for the combo of time til detonation/not great damage, i only get nukes in 3v3 and 4v4, where you have a much higher chance of success in crushing econ.
Reply Quote
Ever since the patch that added large amount of hit points to lots of Protoss and mainly Zerg structures, Terran has been using nukes that were designed for the days before those changes. The reason those structures had HP buffs was to prevent drop play sniping ( Marauders mainly ). I find that completely understandable, however Blizzard never changed nukes to make up for the added HP of these buildings.

Although nukes easier to get than SC1, SC1 nukes are far far more effective. It used to take 2 nukes to kill a command center / hatchery / nexus. TvP specifically you could do 1 nuke and an EMP if I recall and take out a Nexus.

Am I asking Blizzard to make Nukes this powerful again? No. What I am asking for is that it take LESS THAN 5 NUKES to kill a Nexus or Lair / Hive ( They will take 5 because of shield / health regen, but 4 if its at the same exact time ). I'm thinking of 3 nukes doing the job would be a reasonable number. It's not like 3 nukes is extremely realistic in the first place, but at least POSSIBLE.

If a Blizzard employee reads this: Please explain your intentions for the Nuke if it's not to take primary buildings( like it was in SC1 ). I understand it can be used occasionally in TvT to force tanks to unsiege but beyond that it's a pretty big gimmick.


Well... you may have your point... but there are some considerations there..

1) Nukes no longer costs popupation as it was in SC1 (8 population each nuke)
2) they are not as strong as SC1 to avoid a "massive nuking win"
3) they are strong enough to destroy important buildings such as pylons, supply depot and if the zerg is not aware.. a group of overlords... (besides its massive range)

The problem is not the nuke here.. the problem is how you use it... they are strong enough to kill almost all units ... you just need to use it in key spots
Edited by ElvisTek on 4/5/2011 9:20 AM PDT
Reply Quote
I would like Nukes much better if they did 1000 dmg to structures and they kept the damage to units the same. That way a double nuke could take out a Nexus/CC/Hatch.

Or then a single nuke could take out Barracks/Gateways as well leading to more options when you want to cripple an opponents base. I just think it'll be a much more diverse set of units when you can do Ghost drops instead of Marauder drops to take out production.
Reply Quote
I wouldn't be opposed to this change.

There are enough existing counters / defenses to nuking Ghosts, that increasing building damage wouldn't dramatically change the fundamental game balance. If anything, it would promote Nukes as a viable late-game build. And it Blizzard's last few patches are any indication, they definitely patch to promote the use of often-ignored-late-game technologies.

Reply Quote
The only thing to consider is the implications of zerg vs Terran, in SC1 ghosts were much easier to detect because overlords had detection, now they don't. So back then it took more skill to pull off a nuke so more risk, but big payout if it worked. I personally want to see the nuke get some kind of buff as well, I did like the increased dmg vs buildings idea, that way nuke wouldn't get too crazy against army units.

I guess my only insight would be to consider all the variables when buffing the nuke, the nuke just may not be meant to 2 shot command centers in sc2, but certainly it could be less than 5 for gosh sakes.
Reply Quote
The real strength of nukes is their ability to cause an instant power outage, supply shortage, or to wipe out defensive structures. They can also break tank lines by forcing them to unsiege and run.

There are already numerous options to deal with bases. Try using nukes for some of the other things they're good at!
Reply Quote
I would like Nukes much better if they did 1000 dmg to structures and they kept the damage to units the same. That way a double nuke could take out a Nexus/CC/Hatch.


you want zerg and toss to need an obs/overseer + units at every base at all times in the late game against every Terran with 2 ghost academies?

being able to reposition an army and one shot turrets and supply buildings are two very powerful things to be able to do, and you can pretty much do it with impunity if you run sufficient distraction.

Nuke is awesome as it is. Ruins worker lines, breaks entrenched positions, can make for a retreat path, or really mess with your opponents head by dropping one on their army mid fight.
Basically, its still strong enough that just the threat of it dropping forces your opponent to react immediatly or suffer severe consequences. They don't need to 2 shot everything in the game as well.
Edited by Sevrin on 4/10/2011 8:28 PM PDT
Reply Quote
You're saying that since building health was increased, you think the damage you do should also increase?

lolnope
Reply Quote
I'm no masters, but I have to say I find nuke damage to be pretty reasonable. Hatcheries don't heal that fast, so after the nuke attack any subsequent attacks should take it out pretty easily. I get more annoyed by gateways/spawning pools. If you don't perfectly double nuke, they will be left with 1hp from sheild/life regen. So Bliz, please buff nukes to 501 damage.
Reply Quote
Someone a while back posted about changing the Nydus worm. The Major Change would be to add a sound, indicating that a worm was being built. Maybe instead of increasing the damage or build time of the Nuclear Missle.

Maybe simply remove the red dot, so the player being nuked must rely on the wide array of detection available to them to find it. Most seasoned players would pull their workers off the line anyways, out of habit.
Reply Quote
I think due to the recent changes involving psi storm and fungal growth, they are looking at each race's AOE spells and reworking them. Hunter Seeker Missile could be next for a buff.....
Reply Quote
The best buff for nukes would be to simply make it so the damage fall-off is either greatly reduced (read: increase damage taken further away from center of blast) or to remove the damage fall-off completely and make anything caught within the blast take 100% damage. Right now, the nuke has to practically fall on top of a depot/pylon to take it out. If the building is so much as 4-5 range away it will more than likely survive, albeit damaged.
Edited by Atmosfear on 4/10/2011 9:40 PM PDT
Reply Quote
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/162360-ffa-terran-zerg-abyss
i dont think they need a buff
Reply Quote
nukes arnt meant to be useful. just like motherships arnt meant to be useful. it was just a gimmick to sell the game.
Reply Quote
I think they're fine. Nukes aren't meant to let you easily inta-destroy your opponent. They're panic buttons. They force your opponent to try to find them and then deal with them, often causing him to move out of position, lose mining time, feel contained, etc. In any case, he's going to be distracted.

They're Tactical Nukes... use them tactfully. ;)
Reply Quote
I think nukes are fine and i think the role they play is fine but what makes them hard to field is that nukes cost a lot of money to get the necessary upgrades/production done. You need the ghost academy (150/50), cloak research (150/150), a ghost (150/150), a nuke (100/100) to have a slim chance of doing cost effective damage in that 1 bomb. Each additional nuke is going to have even more diminished effect as the enemy will be on guard against nukes. Each failed nuke cost you 250/250 in cost of the ghost and the nuke plus the time investment to get those out.

The only matchup where nukes are practical is TvP as ghost play even without nukes are effecive as EMP plays a major role in the late game. Its not much of a stretch to mix in a few nukes to catch the protoss off guard. The matchup where nukes have the greatest potential viability is TvT but ghost serve no real purpose other than nuking as there is very limited amount of need for EMP or snipe so going nuke is a very risky investment. I feel this is why you don't see many nukes from pros besides TLO in his TvT (then again TLO does all kinds of crazy stuff as terran).

The end result is trying to "fix" nukes is hard because of how they do function well but the barrier to entry for nuke tech makes it too all-in early game and difficult to know when to work them in at the late game.
Reply Quote
I think nukes are fine and i think the role they play is fine but what makes them hard to field is that nukes cost a lot of money to get the necessary upgrades/production done. You need the ghost academy (150/50), cloak research (150/150), a ghost (150/150), a nuke (100/100) to have a slim chance of doing cost effective damage in that 1 bomb. Each additional nuke is going to have even more diminished effect as the enemy will be on guard against nukes. Each failed nuke cost you 250/250 in cost of the ghost and the nuke plus the time investment to get those out.

The only matchup where nukes are practical is TvP as ghost play even without nukes are effecive as EMP plays a major role in the late game. Its not much of a stretch to mix in a few nukes to catch the protoss off guard. The matchup where nukes have the greatest potential viability is TvT but ghost serve no real purpose other than nuking as there is very limited amount of need for EMP or snipe so going nuke is a very risky investment. I feel this is why you don't see many nukes from pros besides TLO in his TvT (then again TLO does all kinds of crazy stuff as terran).

The end result is trying to "fix" nukes is hard because of how they do function well but the barrier to entry for nuke tech makes it too all-in early game and difficult to know when to work them in at the late game.


drop 2 cloaked ghosts, emp the oc, and drop 2 nukes. Someone did it on Day j's nuke funday monday. I almost wept when I saw the EMP...
Reply Quote
04/11/2011 10:31 AMPosted by omgtomdwan
drop 2 cloaked ghosts, emp the oc, and drop 2 nukes. Someone did it on Day j's nuke funday monday. I almost wept when I saw the EMP...


That was our very own TGPrax. He posts here in the forums, sometimes.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]