War for Helm's Deep (Official Thread)

Posts: 1,493
This is the official thread for feedback, comments, and suggestions you may have about my map. There's no such thing as a stupid suggestion (maybe), so feel free to post it here.

The essential goal is the same as the Helm's Deep maps made for the first Starcraft, but for anyone unfamiliar with them, the basic idea as the defenders is to hold out until the Riders of Rohan arrive and wipe out the two commanders, Saruman and Ugluk, or if you're good, to kill them before then. If a commander dies, the army associated with that commander will stop coming, so be careful using them.

As the attackers, the goal is to kill the civilians (all 20 of them) and Theoden without losing your commanders.

Features:
- Hero players can gain levels and use the minerals on upgrades.
- Some heroes have abilities (not just Hallucination, Dark Swarm, and Stimpacks).
- Siege ladders allow you to scale the walls, but you can only call them once, so don't lose them! EDIT: For players having problems with them, the Siege Ladders are each set to a specific attachment point, which is the one directly above where that ladder appeared. Draw a straight line above the ladder appearance points, and each one should run through an attachment point. Send the ladders to ONLY those points, and they will work.

If you saw a special bit in my map that you'd like to use in your own map (for the mapmakers who read this), feel free to message me ingame and ask me (Palamani, friend code 360) or just post the question here and wait for a reply. I hope you all enjoy the map!

Also, I have created a new channel for the map (Siege). Ask for an invite to the channel, and sooner or later enough players will come that private games can be easily arranged.
Edited by Palamani on 10/29/2011 10:27 AM PDT
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Posts: 15
O ya this map brings back memories. Loved it, i believe the original was helms deep annatar. Played a lot. Anyhow I made a variation of it called Legends Deep. I always had new and great things to improve it. I prefer a more general Fantasy motif rather than a Lord of the rings one though.

Unfortunately I am pretty lost when it comes to understanding the basic structure of sc2 map making. Way more complicated than the sc1 days. I was wondering if you could help with the recreation of my map. few things i really like in your recreation i would love to use for mine.
1. Loved how when you mass armies somewhere the brutalisk seems to make a nice marching sound., just sc2 sound or did you edit it?
2. How did you create the Faction select in the lobby?
3. Do you know anything about adding selection menus in game before the game starts: difficulty, sub faction, setup, etc.
Not to steal your map or anything but would you allow me to use your triggers to be used as a template for this type of map. Id love to look at them to get an understanding of how triggers in this map type could work

Thanks

Also as for your War for helm deep map, nice work, lots of potential to be great, couple suggestions if I may,
1. Attackers side is terribly easy to win, perhaps its just me and having a lot of experience playing this kind of map, but really a decent player can rush through and crush quick, perhaps the game needs a better pacing, for example nerfing hero dmg to prevent instant gate kills and uping basic forces dmg to allow a reasonable push when unhindered.
2. The Attacker siege tanks, they do good dmg but seriously as gate siege units they do so little, mostly 1 dmg a shot, that is pretty useless, they should kill gates progressive from decent dmg on outer gate to very little damage on inter gates, so defenders work to kill good setups and attackers can rely on them.
3. Perhaps the heroes need ways to come back, like a respawn timer or something after death, a long one. Many games result in a player just losing their hero then they quit, then allies leave, games ruined, etc.
4. Hero factions need more play style options, like some extra spawning units to support the main armies. Or extra skills, etc.
5. Another idea to number 1 is Both attackers and defenders should have upgrades to progress their troops strength up, or get better troop as time goes on, this prevents any real boring stalemates at gates and helps game flow. A good idea is having attackers slowly gain upgrade strength over time, while defenders gain strength through kills and defending points. This way the attackers will eventually level up to a point where their forces are near unstoppable, but only near the end before the timer runs out, so attackers dont feel helpless to a skilled defender. While the defenders can slowly upgrade too, the strength of these upgrades should be small and should only slightly match the power of the attackers early on to allow a good defender to hold a position longer but toward the end they will really have to rely on limited troops to outwit the attackers massive numbers and strong forces to the end.

Ok this post is getting too long anyhow, Great map




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Posts: 1,493
For doing the stuff in the Editor that you want:

1. Loved how when you mass armies somewhere the brutalisk seems to make a nice marching sound., just sc2 sound or did you edit it?

I never touched the sounds in my map. Are you wanting to know how to make the massing triggers? Tell me if that's the case and I'll spell it out for you.

2. How did you create the Faction select in the lobby?

There's no simple way to do this, but I'll give you some links to show you what you need.
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/tutorials/5486-lobby-game-modes-the-complete-guide-reference/#posts: - A very good guide on making lobby modes, although it doesn't deal with making entire factions.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1869563124?page=2 - Here, I give an outline of how I made my system in this map (if the link doesn't take you to the correct post, scroll down to posts #36 and #37).
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/project-workplace/9727-lotr-minas-tirith/: - A brief example of how another person set his lobby up.
If you're stuck on player and game attributes, search them on SC2Mapster, but they're relatively simple. The trick with this is to create the custom lobby BEFORE you make your triggers, as it's very time-consuming to be changing every single player number in every trigger to the proper variable.

3. Do you know anything about adding selection menus in game before the game starts: difficulty, sub faction, setup, etc.
Not to steal your map or anything but would you allow me to use your triggers to be used as a template for this type of map. Id love to look at them to get an understanding of how triggers in this map type could work

That's the same as your second question, and the third link shows how I made mine.
As for your suggestions:

1. Attackers side is terribly easy to win, perhaps its just me and having a lot of experience playing this kind of map, but really a decent player can rush through and crush quick, perhaps the game needs a better pacing, for example nerfing hero dmg to prevent instant gate kills and uping basic forces dmg to allow a reasonable push when unhindered.

Quick gate kills were part of the game in SC1 (in most of the games I was in, the drainage grate and main gate had to both be dead within about 2 minutes), and as for winning easily as the attackers, I think it's mostly because so few players seem to know what they're doing. I only see a Saruman player who has any idea how to even kill the Main Gate about one game of TEN. I almost always win, no matter what side I play (once, I went solo against 2 evil players, and despite the fact that I wasted all but 1 of my heroes in 20 minutes, I made it to the 2-minute mark before dying, and I won anyways by hiding one of my civilians away, and the Riders came before they found him), and maybe it's just that the defending players don't seem to know what they're doing, either.

2. The Attacker siege tanks, they do good dmg but seriously as gate siege units they do so little, mostly 1 dmg a shot, that is pretty useless, they should kill gates progressive from decent dmg on outer gate to very little damage on inter gates, so defenders work to kill good setups and attackers can rely on them.

I have the reverse, as the outer gate and drain both have 100 armor, but the inner gates only have 75. As for killing the gates themselves, you can send ranged heroes at them (BEHIND your men, hopefully, or else you'll be trapped), use the Berserker, or use Dark Swarm and heroes, and save the tanks for the inner gates.

3. Perhaps the heroes need ways to come back, like a respawn timer or something after death, a long one. Many games result in a player just losing their hero then they quit, then allies leave, games ruined, etc.

A respawn timer would probably ruin the game, but the hero players each get 2 or 3 bodyguards, and they always seem to forget that they can ask for control from Rohan or Elves together with permission to use a specific hero.

4. Hero factions need more play style options, like some extra spawning units to support the main armies. Or extra skills, etc.

They can level up, which makes them massively powerful. Aragorn can take on nearly any hero one on one (I've seen him fight Ugluk and come out the winner), Gimli can stop waves of men cold, Legolas can pick off tanks or heroes, and Lugdush is simply a high-powered hero.

5. Another idea to number 1 is Both attackers and defenders should have upgrades to progress their troops strength up, or get better troop as time goes on, this prevents any real boring stalemates at gates and helps game flow. A good idea is having attackers slowly gain upgrade strength over time, while defenders gain strength through kills and defending points. This way the attackers will eventually level up to a point where their forces are near unstoppable, but only near the end before the timer runs out, so attackers dont feel helpless to a skilled defender. While the defenders can slowly upgrade too, the strength of these upgrades should be small and should only slightly match the power of the attackers early on to allow a good defender to hold a position longer but toward the end they will really have to rely on limited troops to outwit the attackers massive numbers and strong forces to the end.

This is a pretty good idea, and I might try to integrate it at some point. Right now, though, I would probably unbalance the game at first by adding this, and while it would be good eventually, I also have another map to keep up with. Still, this is smart.
Edited by Palamani on 4/7/2011 8:26 PM PDT
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Posts: 15
Glad you have enjoyed my thoughts. Really this map type really was my addiction way back on the days of sc1. Such as why i made Legends Deep. Which reminds me, you ever play sc1 at all, I would love you show you that map on bnet, a lot of the ideas i had were added to that map, lots of good stuff going on in it, you should take a look. My bnet id is 562
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Posts: 133
Been waiting for helms deep for ages, thanks a ton!

That said, the heroes seem to level extremely fast and are hitting level 100 well before the end of the game.

Also on the subject of heroes, the main heroes of the evil army can get dominated by the fellowship heroes 1v1 very quickly, is that intended?

Hallucination doesn't seem to be working at all for me either, you can target the unit you want to hallucinate but saruman doesn't spend any energy, and no hallucinations appear.

Oh, and despite the very fast leveling heroes, (and it could just be that I haven't played against any good ones) it seems that its extremely difficult to defend as the good armies, I've won the majority of my games as saruman before the 30 minute mark.

Are the heroes ultimates situationally available? I've died several times because I would attempt to use my ultimate to heal myself only to have it give me an error message and not trigger.

Lugdush has no cap on upgrading his attack, making him immensely overpowered if you use all your minerals to get like 700 dmg.

Gimli is also a bit too strong, 450 splash damage is extremely powerful.
Edited by Temporality on 4/7/2011 5:13 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,493
Lugdush caps at 100 strength upgrades like the others, so a maximum of 800 damage.

The hero ultimate buttons are bugged, as they will only fire if there's an enemy in your VERY immediate area (basically standing on you), so you should be surrounded when trying this, and also make sure to hit the button a bunch of times, and then it should work.

You're probably winning so easily as Saruman because so few players actually seem to know what they're doing. I've only seen a Saruman player who even knew what Dark Swarm was for one game of ten, and the defenders weren't much better at having good players. Chances are, you'll have better games once people know what they're doing.

I know that Hallucination is problematic, but I have no idea what's wrong with it or how to fix it. I'm really sorry for any problems this has made.

The heroes levelling early is a bug from 1.2, where a hidden change had it so that when a unit A kills unit B, unit A gives the experience to every allied unit within a certain radius (4? 5?), but it's not the worst that it could be.

As for your heroes being dominated by the Fellowship, Aragorn is certainly meant to do that. as his main role is hero hunting. You should be surrounding him, then trying to shoot him with a ranged hero, or simply detonating the Berserker near him (it has a massive splash radius, to the point where I managed to lose 8 (yes, 8) heroes to it through a stupid move). The others aren't meant for it, but they can be nasty if you don't know what you're doing. Gimli's shield ability gives him massive resistance to heroes, so if he uses it, run and wait for it to fade, then quickly try again. Legolas isn't exactly strong hit for hit, but his Barbed Arrow ability (Eowyn and Haldir get this as well, so be careful) has a whopping 15 range, which makes it perfect for picking off any heroes that try to run and heal (there's a 5-second cooldown on it to stop repeated shots). Overall, the idea is to surround them, then quickly get your ranged heroes or Berserker there to kill them before they can break out.
Edited by Palamani on 4/9/2011 5:37 PM PDT
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Posts: 133
Noo helm's was finally close enough to page 1 to get players now its gone again aarghhh
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Posts: 54
There may be 2 of this map,but the one I played (I was a melee) I got to lvl 85ish before they broke in and had attack maxed and some other stat and then maxed all after 2 more waves.
#2 the turrets are almost insta-death even at maxed. please nearf a little on the turrets/spine
crawers.
Edited by NoahWan on 4/9/2011 12:24 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,493
The idea with the turrets is for them to be a deterrent. You're not supposed to try charging those spine crawlers by the evil bases (although I have a few times when evil was stupid, to the point where I had 200+archers and they still hadn't even gotten past the main gate). As for the wall turrets, those die instantly when their associated gate does. If you're having trouble with that, try having your hero behind the masses swarming a gate and have him shoot the gate (be careful if you're doing this, because smart Rohan players WILL try to focus their turrets on you), or use Dark Swarm and go from that.

As for the early leveling, I can't really do much about that, because it actually takes hours of work to try editing every level of a 100-level+ veterancy in the editor (it has unbelievable lag once you go past about 50 levels, and at 100, it takes close to 20 seconds just to switch from one level to the next, never mind making the changes).
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Posts: 133
This is a bit of a non-issue with the speed heroes level, but I noticed good can salvage their bunkers (several hundred minerals total).

I'm guessing a crafty player might use this to give his heroes max upgrades at the start of the game, though I haven't tried it myself.

Edit*

I'm having a hard time finding good uses for my tanks as rohan or elves, with their siege range I can't seem to figure out a way to use them to kill the evil armies without risking heavy splash damage to my own units (usually the heroes I'm using to tank with). Any tips as to how I can use my tanks to better effect?
Edited by Temporality on 4/10/2011 1:36 AM PDT
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Posts: 15
I am currently working on a map with similar triggers. How did you get the doors to work? are they units or doodads?, i would like to use the same concept you have in this map for mine.
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Posts: 1,493
The gates? Those are buried somewhere under Units, possibly under Campaign - Neutral - Destructibles (that's my best guess, because I moved what section they were in in my map after I found them). To allow them to work properly, you need to create a button. Set the name to Close Gate and ID to GateClose, and don't forget to add an icon afterwards. It's important to set the ID EXACTLY like what I put here, or else it won't work. For some reason, Blizzard never added a button to allow you to close the gates.
For figuring out which gate is which (in the editor, they all start with the same name), try giving each gate a different name (Gate 1, Gate 2, etc.), placing one of each (make sure to take off the flags on the gates that say Uncommandable, Unselectable, or anything like that) in your map, then testing it. Check each gate, and see which one is connected to which other one, and rename them as necessary until you have them all right. There's several kinds of gates, so pick one kind (the ones I used were labelled as Security Gate or Metal Gate, and you can see which one has the proper appearance when you take a look), and use it. Also,you'll most likely need to rescale the models, as they tend to be rather small.

As for the tanks, I drastically lowered their friendly splash damage ratings not long ago, so it shouldn't be as much of a problem.
Edited by Palamani on 4/13/2011 3:58 PM PDT
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Posts: 15
Ya figured out the gates, thanks, but my biggest problem is just the startup triggers, i tried to duplicate your setup to allow a game to be started without a full lobby, Thers still quite a few problems. How do I get the player variables to show up when I am selecting a player for a trigger. Currently My Map Startup trigger is

Events
Game - Map initialization
Local Variables
Conditions
Actions
Player Group - Pick each player in (All players) and do (Actions)
Actions
General - Switch (Actions) depending on (Faction value for player (Picked player))
Cases
General - If (Player Choice - Human Alliance)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Human Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 01) Red (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Human Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Human Alliance = (Controller value for player (Picked player))
General - If (Player Choice - Elvish Pact)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Elvish Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 02) Blue (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Elvish Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Elvish Pact = (Faction value for player (Picked player))
General - If (Player Choice - Vanguard)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Vanguard Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 03) Teal (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Vanguard Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Vanguard = (Faction value for player (Picked player))
General - If (Player Choice - Mage Guild)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Mage Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 04) Purple (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Mage Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Mage Guild = (Faction value for player (Picked player))
General - If (Player Choice - Dragonkin)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Dragonkin Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 05) Yellow (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Dragonkin Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Dragonkin = (Faction value for player (Picked player))
General - If (Player Choice - Orc Warlord)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Orc Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 06) Orange (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Orc Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Orc Warlord = (Faction value for player (Picked player))
General - If (Player Choice - Demon Lord)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Demon Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 07) Green (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Demon Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Demon Lord = (Faction value for player (Picked player))
General - If (Player Choice - Undead Legion)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Undead Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 08) Light Pink (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Undead Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Undead Legion = (Faction value for player (Picked player))

A problem is that where it says set variable i cent select the player for "=" . I could not complete the trigger so i made the alliance triggers in this format.

Events
Local Variables
Conditions
(Status of player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units))) == Playing
Actions
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Orc Units)) treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Demon Units)) treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Undead Units)) treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Orc Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Demon Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units)) and player 9 treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units)) and player 11 treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Control
General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions)
If
(Status of player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Elvish Units))) == Playing
Then
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Elvish Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Else
Unit - Rescue Elvish Units for player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Elvish Units)) and Retain Color
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Elvish Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Vanguard Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Elvish Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Mage Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Elvish Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Dragonkin Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Elvish Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Human Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Dragonkin Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Vanguard Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Vanguard Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Mage Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Player - Make player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Mage Units)) and player (Owner of (Random Any unit from Dragonkin Units)) treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable

The owner transfer of units sortof worked, but the starting alliances does not. I assume I has something to do with your computer setups 8, 9 , and 11. Do I place all units on the map under computers? My map follows a similar format to yours with 8 human players and 3 comps. So far Ive only created 16 global variables in the triggers. 8 for each players attribute they select in lobby, and 8 for each unit group for the 8 factions.

Any ideas? I know im missing something simple im sure.
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Posts: 1,493
You did miss something, and that was the 8 global integer variables to mark the player numbers.

Cases
General - If (Player Choice - Human Alliance)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Human Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 01) Red (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Human Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Player Choice - Human Alliance = (Controller value for player(Picked player))

That's your mistake. You need a global variable for each human player set to an integer (with my setup, which I'm guessing you looked at, set all of the integer variable defaults for the players on one team to 9, and the others to 10. I only used 11 for my gates). What it should look like is this:

Cases
General - If (Player Choice - Human Alliance)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Human Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 01) Red (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Human Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Human Alliance (integer variable)= (Picked player)
Edited by Palamani on 4/14/2011 3:49 PM PDT
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Posts: 54
The idea with the turrets is for them to be a deterrent. You're not supposed to try charging those spine crawlers by the evil bases (although I have a few times when evil was stupid, to the point where I had 200+archers and they still hadn't even gotten past the main gate). As for the wall turrets, those die instantly when their associated gate does. If you're having trouble with that, try having your hero behind the masses swarming a gate and have him shoot the gate (be careful if you're doing this, because smart Rohan players WILL try to focus their turrets on you), or use Dark Swarm and go from that.

As for the early leveling, I can't really do much about that, because it actually takes hours of work to try editing every level of a 100-level+ veterancy in the editor (it has unbelievable lag once you go past about 50 levels, and at 100, it takes close to 20 seconds just to switch from one level to the next, never mind making the changes).


Ah,I get it,but we where destroying the enemies in about 50+ seconds with one gate still up.
#2 if its that much lag,I think its okay then,I understand(the lag from other people is
horrendous:( ).

EDIT: had no problem with the turrets or the gate.
Edited by NoahWan on 4/14/2011 7:12 PM PDT
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Posts: 978
love this game, so glad the pvp helm's is back!!!!

And yes, I don't think most of the people have played any sc1 helm's games. (or know what dark swarm does)
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Posts: 363
as an avid player of the sc1 version, this is so easy i cant get my head around how to lose, this is only because no one has any idea how to play except for me 99.9999% of the time. I like how you recreated it, but the abilities and addons that you incorperated are questionable to say the least. I need to play with competent people to give a full analysis but my first impressions are good.
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Posts: 15
Well i adjusted the triggers accordingly, still having an issuse where the alliances and the transfer of non player units is messing up.
Theses are my global variables i made

Player Choice - Human Alliance = Human Alliance <Attribute Value>
Player Choice - Elvish Pact = Elvish Pact <Attribute Value>
Player Choice - Vanguard = Vanguard <Attribute Value>
Player Choice - Mage Guild = Mage Guild <Attribute Value>
Player Choice - Dragonkin = Dragonkin <Attribute Value>
Player Choice - Orc Warlord = Orc Warlord <Attribute Value>
Player Choice - Demon Lord = Demon Lord <Attribute Value>
Player Choice - Undead Legion = Undead Legion <Attribute Value>
Human Alliance = 9 <Integer>
Elvish Pact = 9 <Integer>
Vanguard = 9 <Integer>
Mage Guild = 9 <Integer>
Dragonkin = 9 <Integer>
Orc Warlord = 10 <Integer>
Demon Lord = 10 <Integer>
Undead Legion = 10 <Integer>
Human Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 1 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>
Elvish Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 2 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>
Vanguard Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 3 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>
Mage Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 4 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>
Dragonkin Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 5 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>
Orc Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 6 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>
Demon Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 7 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>
Undead Units = (Any units in (Entire map) owned by player 8 matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) <Unit Group>

I think thats it, Heres the faction trigger set

Events
Game - Map initialization
Local Variables
Conditions
Actions
Player Group - Pick each player in (All players) and do (Actions)
Actions
General - Switch (Actions) depending on (Faction value for player (Picked player))
Cases
General - If (Player Choice - Human Alliance[0])
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Human Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 01) Red (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Human Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Human Alliance = (Picked player)
General - If (Player Choice - Elvish Pact)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Elvish Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 02) Blue (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Elvish Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Elvish Pact = (Picked player)
General - If (Player Choice - Vanguard)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Vanguard Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 03) Teal (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Vanguard Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Vanguard = (Picked player)
General - If (Player Choice - Mage Guild)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Mage Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 04) Purple (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Mage Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Mage Guild = (Picked player)
General - If (Player Choice - Dragonkin)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Dragonkin Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 05) Yellow (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Dragonkin Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Dragonkin = (Picked player)
General - If (Player Choice - Orc Warlord)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Orc Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 06) Orange (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Orc Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Orc Warlord = (Picked player)
General - If (Player Choice - Demon Lord)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Demon Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 07) Green (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Demon Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Demon Lord = (Picked player)
General - If (Player Choice - Undead Legion)
Actions
Unit Group - Pick each unit in Undead Units and do (Actions)
Actions
Player - Set player (Picked player) color to (Player 08) Light Pink (Retain the color of existing units)
Unit - Rescue Undead Units for player (Picked player) and Change Color
Variable - Set Undead Legion = (Picked player)

It should be correct, i made 9 other triggers for each players alliance settings like you said, 8 for players and 1 more for the neutral computers 9,10,11. I took the liberty to change the opposing factions triggers to match but im not sure if its correct.

Example: My Defenders trigger

Events
Local Variables
Conditions
(Number of times Player Faction has been executed) == 1
(Status of player Human Alliance) == Playing
Actions
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Orc Warlord treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Demon Lord treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Undead Legion treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player 10 treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player 11 treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Control
General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions)
If
(Status of player Elvish Pact) == Playing
Then
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Elvish Pact treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Else
Unit - Rescue Elvish Units for player Elvish Pact and Retain Color
Player - Make player Elvish Pact and player Human Alliance treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Elvish Pact and player Vanguard treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Elvish Pact and player Mage Guild treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Elvish Pact and player Dragonkin treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions)
If
(Status of player Dragonkin) == Playing
Then
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Dragonkin treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Else
Unit - Rescue Dragonkin Units for player Dragonkin and Retain Color
Player - Make player Dragonkin and player Human Alliance treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Dragonkin and player Elvish Pact treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Dragonkin and player Vanguard treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Dragonkin and player Mage Guild treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions)
If
(Status of player Vanguard) == Playing
Then
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Vanguard treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Else
Unit - Rescue Vanguard Units for player Vanguard and Retain Color
Player - Make player Vanguard and player Human Alliance treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Vanguard and player Elvish Pact treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Vanguard and player Mage Guild treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Vanguard and player Dragonkin treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions)
If
(Status of player Mage Guild) == Playing
Then
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Mage Guild treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Else
Unit - Rescue Mage Units for player Mage Guild and Retain Color
Player - Make player Mage Guild and player Human Alliance treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Mage Guild and player Elvish Pact treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Mage Guild and player Vanguard treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Mage Guild and player Dragonkin treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending


And my Attackers Trigger

Alliance Setup Orc Warlord
Events
Local Variables
Conditions
(Number of times Player Faction has been executed) == 1
(Status of player Orc Warlord) == Playing
Actions
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player Human Alliance treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player Elvish Pact treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player Vanguard treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player Mage Guild treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player Dragonkin treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player 9 treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player 11 treat each other as Enemy
General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions)
If
(Status of player Demon Lord) == Playing
Then
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player Demon Lord treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Else
Unit - Rescue Demon Units for player Demon Lord and Retain Color
Player - Make player Demon Lord and player Orc Warlord treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Demon Lord and player Undead Legion treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
General - If (Conditions) then do (Actions) else do (Actions)
If
(Status of player Undead Legion) == Playing
Then
Player - Make player Orc Warlord and player Undead Legion treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Pushable
Else
Unit - Rescue Undead Units for player Undead Legion and Retain Color
Player - Make player Undead Legion and player Orc Warlord treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending
Player - Make player Undead Legion and player Demon Lord treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision, Control, And Spending



Also i added the condition for it to check if the first Player factions trigger has run yet, not sure if it matters.


Reply Quote
Posts: 1,493
I had a separate trigger for each player, but it can work correctly with just two or three. What you did wrong was make the trigger execution depend on a specific player being there (the Human Alliance in the case of the Defenders trigger). You should have the Human Alliance part set under its own If-Then-Else loop, because the way you have it presently only works if each player has a separate trigger. Also, you never set the computer player associated with each team to be allied with the players on that team.

Player - Make player Human Alliance and player Undead Legion treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player 9 treat each other as Ally with Shared Control
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player 10 treat each other as Enemy
Player - Make player Human Alliance and player 11 treat each other as Ally With Shared Vision And Control

Add that part and see if it works better. Also, you shouldn't have it only running if the other trigger has gone off, because that other trigger should only be running at map initialization. The alliance settings triggers should be set to run slightly after the faction trigger (Event - Time Elapsed=0.12 seconds instead of Map Initialization, or something like that).
Edited by Palamani on 4/14/2011 10:16 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 15
So here is my Army Spawn Trigger

Events
Timer - Every 5.0 seconds of Game Time
Local Variables
Orc = Orc <Game Link - Unit>
Spearthrower = Spearthrower <Game Link - Unit>
Elite Orc = Elite Orc Warrior <Game Link - Unit>
Orge = Orge <Game Link - Unit>
Conditions
(Orc units in (Entire map) owned by player Demon Lord matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) == (Units in Orc Units within (Entire map), with at most 0)
(Elite Orc units in (Entire map) owned by player Demon Lord matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) == (Units in Orc Units within (Entire map), with at most 0)
(Orge units in (Entire map) owned by player Demon Lord matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) == (Units in Orc Units within (Entire map), with at most 0)
(Spearthrower units in (Entire map) owned by player Demon Lord matching Excluded: Missile, Dead, Hidden, with at most Any Amount) == (Units in Orc Units within (Entire map), with at most 0)
Actions
Unit - Create 10 Orc for player Demon Lord at (Demon Spawn 1 facing 270.0 degrees) using default facing (No Options)
Unit - Create 10 Orge for player Demon Lord at (Demon Spawn 2 facing 270.0 degrees) using default facing (No Options)
Unit - Create 10 Spearthrower for player Demon Lord at (Demon Spawn 3 facing 270.0 degrees) using default facing (No Options)
Unit - Create 10 Elite Orc Warrior for player Demon Lord at (Demon Spawn 4 facing 270.0 degrees) using default facing (No Options)
Unit - Create 2 Goblin Catapult(Mobile) (Tank Mode) for player Demon Lord at (Demon Spawn 5 facing 270.0 degrees) using default facing (No Options)
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