StarCraft® II

Custom Map Feedback

I have to disagree with this. Allowing the most custom/best maps to charge means more talent will come to make maps and more artists will join. This in turn will give us way better custom maps which are super cheap compared to full-on games that you stop playing in a week.

Red Circle TD was around during beta, and its still very popular. Likewise nexus wars.

Good games come from quality, and quality comes from inspiration and good will, not greed.

Besides, who's going to judge which maps are good enough to be premium and which aren't? Perhaps they'd have to go through blizzard first, but i can't think of a way blizzard won't try to make a profit off this.

Also, it's funny how people had an issue paying $60 for this game and now they have an issue MAKING MONEY off of it...

If i play this game for as long as i played starcraft 1, then you definitely get your money's worth. But i don't, nor ever had, plans to invest into a video game for additional unofficial content. That doesn't mean i would pay for official blizzard premium maps, out of principal. It would just mean to me that they're trying to milk this cow dry. I'm only paying for official expansion releases. Yes, i could just steer clear from premium maps, but fact that it will be allowed will mean a reduced amount of free custom maps than otherwise would be available. I wouldn't be surprised by the number of greedy people on battle net.

Free maps will only be so good... adding money to the pool will up the game quite a bit.

Again, referring to quality, its not greed that makes a game good.
Besides, i don't know if you played sc or wc3, but you're saying that all the maps available on those games were sub-par because the editor didn't have a monetary return from his time investment?

I can see where you're going with maps that perhaps have excellent dialogue and a cinematic or 2, or even a lengthy campaign, but still, i was never a fan of monthly bills for a video game, let alone paying for additional digital content.

Look what happened to diablo regarding items, where there's sites dedicated to the sale of those items. That ruined the game.
Blizzard needs to respond to these things at the very least. I have seen NOTHING in response to valid questions. In another thread, concerns were raised after a blue posted, and then when the blue posted again it was just to say "Broken link! Sorry!", completely ignoring everything.

Take a look: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/248414916

Also, the best post of issues ever should probably be added to the OP.

We've been compiling common questions posed by the community and are currently planning to address them in an upcoming blog. While we will endeavor to provide as complete a response as possible to each question, listing meaningful timetables for some issues may not be feasible. If we receive information after the fact about certain issues, we'll make sure the community is updated at that time. :)

In the meantime, our Technical Support forum has a sticky post up featuring known game issues and related workarounds. It's definitely worth checking out: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/94749474

Cool. Don't forget as an aside, for all the mapmakers out there, the following engine/editor questions:
1. Will we ever get pointers back, or similar functionality to pointers?
2. Would it be possible to implement a GetHandleID function so that we could use data tables to save stuff to timers/triggers/units, like we could in WC3?
3. Is there any reason for the 0.0625 trigger interval? Can it be possibly lowered? 16 frames a second isn't very smooth for most people, plus it adds a maximum of 62.5 MS of delay to UI events.
4. While the UI controls so far are a large step forward, it'd be great if we could get a function that would return things like current mouse position. Even if these natives would have to be first enabled by another call so as to not transmit unnecessary data all the time, they would open up a broad range of possible maps.
5. Some maps like to have information be a crucial gameplay element. However, the ability to talk to your friends at all times in battlenet might be ruinous to that, much like whispers were in wc3. Is there any current way, or will there be any future way, to temporarily disable this functionality on a map basis? Or restrict messaging to people who are not in the current game?


I'd love to see answers to any of those questions. Preferably from someone who actually had a hand in programming the game. I don't think that any public relations blue poster even knows what we're talking about in those. I could be wrong, and if so, I'd love to see some proof, but so far, all the blues are quiet and sidestepping the issues.


I made that post in the other thread. I'd love just one answer to those 5. Pointers most of all, but Get Handle Id would also work beautifullly.
Allow use of maps offline. I published my map and realized the only way to play it is through multiplayer. It is not available in the "play vs ai" section. You're saying that in a situation where the servers are down or my internet is gone, i can't play my own map with the ais? That seems unfair, after the amount of work i put into it.

Maps i download should be stored on my computer, not online. I can't find any of the maps i downloaded from bnet 2.0. I can understand if someone locks their map, but not everyone does that. I for one don't mind if my map is opened in the editor by someone else, or modified, as long as i have my original one, and as long as they credit me prior to any change. The worst part of all this is when i want to play versus the ai, i have to wait for the map list to be loaded. You should store the maps in the appropriate folder for sc2, as sc1 did with its maps. This was one of the worst changes made from the original game.

Publishing maps should be a "showcase" function. I think we should be allowed to host maps as it was done in sc1 and wc3. The publishing feature, however is a nice idea to show your level of map editing, if one is interested in doing so. The featured maps can be made available through a players profile, and anyone with access to the profile can look/download/play them.

Allow people to host game with a title, like in sc1. A game title allows the user to set a few ground rules for the game, but more importantly, to allows the same people who joined your previous game to rejoin the same game, without having to add them. Not everyone i enjoy playing with is my friend, and i shouldn't have to go through the trouble of adding them simply because i want to play a few games with them.

Search function should allow players to search for maps even by author name. It helps. Sometimes you remember the authors name better than the game title. Or perhaps you want to see what other maps a certain person published.

Improved filter system. I see melee maps in the customs listing, and i see some custom maps in the melee listing. Additionally, more filter selections would help. I would suggest such filters as Tower Defense, Survival, Arena, and so fourth.

Map rating system + comments. I would really like if i could get feedback on my published maps. Something like a rating system and even the ability to post comments on the map. I understand the type of comments some people would leave are deemed inappropriate, but perhaps you can give the publisher the option of deleting inappropriate comments, like on youtube.


This, mostly. I like Hobbes' reasoning, and most of his ideas would really help out us custom map makers.

Also, I think the handling of offensive content should be handled a little bit differently. Most mapmakers are very willing to change things that are found to be offensive to others, if they only knew (mistakes). This is where the map rating system and comments could come in, or even a fair bit of warning with a reason behind it in an e-mail. The main problem with the current system is there's no warning, and severe consequences for not even knowing what the problem was in the first place.

I think you, Blizzard, will find that people will be much happier with the system if there a better way of getting the reasoning why. For example, a map is deemed offensive, with the reasoning why in the report. All this would take is requiring a reason for the offense in the report offense form, then attach that to said e-mail to the mapmaker after confirmation.

As case in point, the map that everyone's inflamed about, the author and other posters immediately calmed down and accepted it once the information was obtained (and wouldn't have even been an issue if said author had been informed immediately). If the people know the reasons, they will be more accepting.
Local hosting with server side downloading of maps might work better as well!
Hi Blizzard,

I would really like to see a function that gives me screen xy and world xy of my mouse location at ANY given time. Not just click. Reason for this are drag and drop menus as well Diablo-like hold and drag controls. Also please give us a function that allows us to disable the left click drag selection box.

I also don't think mouse events and keypress events need to generate network traffic if the actions of the trigger are local. For example if a player presses 'M' to bring up thier map. This does not effect any other players in the game thus the keypress could have the option of being local. Or you could write a smart compiler to detect if the actions being executed are local/global and switch the event as such.
one more, if possible:

Improved functionality of the legacy converter. I love the idea behind this converter and would like if it received some more attention. It feels like this was left in the beta stage. It still only converts cliffs in the badlands maps. I was under the impression that it would convert all sc1 tilesets (and cliffs) to their respective counterparts in sc2. Since there are only so few tilesets in the first game, it shouldn't be too much work.

I'm not asking to make it so it will convert triggers or units other than resources, but i would like to see the appropriate cliffing where it is in the original map. Another thing that would be nice, if at all possible, would be to convert its critters and doodads (trees at least), to their respective counterparts in sc2.
Edited by hobbes on 8/4/2010 3:36 PM PDT
Totally agree with you on the legacy converter, hobbes. It was really disappointing to see a map I had worked really hard on the terrain for quite a number of hours not come through because the tile-sets were not compatible. I don't really mind about the doodads, those are easy enough to replace, but terrain was a huge chunk of the work...and if all that comes through are start locations and resources, I might as well just start over.
Edited by Druke on 8/4/2010 3:50 PM PDT
@FuriousFox You can use a trigger to cast an effect on a unit, create an effect that modifies a unit, increasing experience.
Hobbes, games like red circle TD and nexus wars would NEVER be allowed to charge; They're not even close to what a premium map would require (to my understanding at least). Blizzard would vet the maps and they'd have to be something akin to a custom campaign or a fully customized RPG with models etc... They have said themselves that they want the money to be used for mapmakers being able to hire professional artists for models/art etc... Of course blizzard would want to make money off of it though. Since when is making money bad? Especially if your map sells 50,000 copies and then you can hire a whole team of artists! It helps everyone! It'll MOTIVATE people to make better stuff.

And yes, if there was a monetary reward for making maps we'd definitely see way cooler/custom games. We have some awesome modelers on SC2Mapster IRC, and if they didn't have to waste time working at a real job, they could instead be hired by us mappers to make models/textures for our custom maps... that'd be sweet :D

Blizzard was smart to not release it right away, as the quality of custom maps just isn't up there yet. War3/sc1 wouldn't really work with this because by default the editors didn't allow enough customization to the level that we can do now.

Don't think that adding money will suddenly turn it into a greed-pool... it's like anything in the world... you can clearly tell when there's inspiration behind a product vs a business man seeing how they can profit the most. I won't mention examples.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't just suggest to Blizzard to "NEVER make a map marketplace". We should at least try it to see if it won't pan out well. We did it with popularity and we now know it isn't the best system and it'll probably get changed quite soon.
have to disagree with this. Allowing the most custom/best maps to charge means more talent will come to make maps and more artists will join. This in turn will give us way better custom maps which are super cheap compared to full-on games that you stop playing in a week.


I know some of the top mappers from Warcraft 3 who all own Starcraft 2. They are all refusing to make maps until Blizzard decides to "fix their s***", and say that ladder is holding them over just fine. Unless some changes are made, mappers will lose any drive to make maps. I was working on a map, and have recently decided to stop all work on it until some changes are made.

Premium maps is a stupid idea, and I for one will not support any mapper who decides to use it.
Edited by RAWBERRY on 8/4/2010 4:15 PM PDT
I would just like new maps to be seen by other players. Thanks.
Don't get rid of the popularity or publishing features. Simply modify them a bit. I say, modify your popularity so that it considers new maps fairly popular so they have a chance at exposure.

Add in searching, and better browsing capabilities.

Fix banks so we can store more than 80 characters (or w/e the absurd amount is) and allow for variables to be used to access banks.

Add in Text to String (or String to Text, I forget which it was).

Finish implementing Dialog Edit Box and other such niceties.

And bump up the size limit of maps. 10 maps, maybe 20, heck do unlimited maps, you're probably just concerned about space, but 20 MB is too small (I don't need much more, but I'm not doing custom models... yet). How about 50MB? I doubt everybody will use that much.

When saving the unique map identifier on the servers, append the creator tag to it, so that lets say I delete my map, and then republish it, it can reuse the same slot/name. That way what you can do to save space is over time, purge custom maps marked as public that NEVER get played. Like, if in 4 months, the game hasn't been played and has a low popularity (which it should after 4 months of no play) remove it from the servers, but again, let the creator reupload it. Maybe the game was unplayable and they needed to fix stuff.

Basically, (with all due respect) just use your heads. I mean, you guys (blue) play SC2 right? You know what you want to see too!
Hobbes, games like red circle TD and nexus wars would NEVER be allowed to charge; They're not even close to what a premium map would require (to my understanding at least). Blizzard would vet the maps and they'd have to be something akin to a custom campaign or a fully customized RPG with models etc... They have said themselves that they want the money to be used for mapmakers being able to hire professional artists for models/art etc... Of course blizzard would want to make money off of it though. Since when is making money bad? Especially if your map sells 50,000 copies and then you can hire a whole team of artists! It helps everyone! It'll MOTIVATE people to make better stuff.

And maps completely consisting of custom content are wholly impossible thanks to the map limits. So either maps won't require any custom content or the marketplace will never release. Which is it?

And maps completely consisting of custom content are wholly impossible thanks to the map limits. So either maps won't require any custom content or the marketplace will never release. Which is it?


Up to Blizzard; it's likely they would review a map for premium and allow it to have a larger space. Problem solved?
Improve the legacy converter.
Quick thing that'd really make me happy: Allow for the >= & <= operators to work properly in Galaxy Editor when comparing two Time data types. As it stands only != and == are available and if you manually use the greater/lessers they start giving false positives and thus render any sort of Time of Day based triggering unreliable. That or at least make an event trigger that can go off at a specific time, not just as a condition of an event (which is impossible to catch). I'm sure your level-dev team member who made the SP Outbreak map would have enjoyed having these options too.

I also fully support expanding the custom map searching suggestions for battlenet, upping the max maps per account and the launching of custom maps from within the game in SP/offline mode.
And maps completely consisting of custom content are wholly impossible thanks to the map limits. So either maps won't require any custom content or the marketplace will never release. Which is it?


Maybe Blizzard is planning to charge monthly fees to expand these limits so people interested in making premium content maps will have to pay first?
I just wanted to say that OneTwo's arguments are fairly solid and he pretty much convinced me on the premium maps thing.

I do still have concerns regarding its possibilities though. I'm sure content will be judged by blizzard (and lets face it...judging their campaigns, they really do know a good map when they see one) so that the top notch maps will be available, but i still have my fears that something will/might go wrong with this concept. I still fear the "diablo item store" effect.

I just hope i don't have to spend 4.99$ for Lost Temple 2.1 :P

Since we're on the subject: what are some good examples where maps are offered in a premium content style and proved successful? Possibly i'd like a few pc game names.

Oh, one more concern. Voice actors and 3d artists aren't cheap. Just like many ipod apps, i can't really imagine many people making back what they spend.
Edited by hobbes on 8/4/2010 5:29 PM PDT
All I want is my Starcraft 1 style map-finding system, and many others echo this. I don't even understand the atrocity that we have now.
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