StarCraft® II

queens need to be a combat capable unit **

queens need to be a combat capable unit **

**off creep at tier 3


if you havnt noticed yet, zerg have less units than toss and terran, and one of their combat units (queen) has been reduced to macro mechanic status with small defensive role (defending fast void ray / hellion / banshee rushes). after those rushes queens lose all purpose as a "combat unit".

creep tumors are destroyed fast and easily in high level games. queens need speed boost off creep to be combat viable.


terran and toss have their macro mechanic added into their main structure. this gives them another combat unit that is a pure combat unit, where zerg have that unit as the queen which is treated as a macro mechanic. this means that in addiction to zerg having less units, one of their units can hardly even be considered a "unit"

queens movement speed off creep was nerfed solely because of a unbeatable queen rush on the asia servers in beta. this was unbeatable because of its speed and queens healing eachother. if queens had a tier3 buff it would give zerg the new combat unit they need plus it would not create the imbalance queens had before the nerf.




i suggest a hive upgrade for queens that give them movement speed off-creep to be as fast as their on-creep speed, and their on-creep speed is not changed by the hive upgrade. also i think this hive upgrade should reduce the build time of a queen by maybe 50% or 25% or something.


if queens moved at a okay rate off-creep they would become a mineral-only form of lategame anti air that would help zerg a lot. queens have more health than a hydra and almost equal damage to air and can heal eachother. so this upgrade would give zerg the missing combat unit they need
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make them massive while they're at it? hehe *shakes fist at phoenixes*
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i agree with the suggestion for the upgrade to make a queen able to move fast out of creep. it's usefulness as a defensive role may be underrated in the early game however. w/ just the help of a few zerglings they can easily hold off early rushes until you build that main offensive army. and w/ the ability to stock up on larvae, i find my queen to be rather invaluable.
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Look up the dropped large and huge queen. I LOVE the idea of giving the queen the ability to fight.
I'm sick of people saying she is a viable combat unit when she isnt much more than a glorified static defense.
Sure she can heal and plant creep tumors but her ground attack is pathetic at best and her off creep movement is laughable. Plus if you're keeping up on your larvae ability you wont have the extra energy for creep tumors or transfusion anyways.

So what? make a second or third queen. Another 150-300 minerals for a moderate unit with relatively low unit synergy (really works best with roaches... on defense... that's about it)
Even worse, building those extra queens (esp in the early game) costs you valuable time while waiting on lair tech. (like lose the game kinda time)

She has so much potential as a combat unit. Remove creep tumors and larvae and give her two new combat oriented abilities. Buff her ground attack a bit and keep her current AA.

upgrade cost =
hive, queen to morph, morph cost (100 minerals 150 gas, total 250 minerals 150 gas)
stats =
hp - 300
attack - 2x10 ground, 1x15 air
energy = 250
0 armor

examples of interesting combat skills -
Metabolic boosting (AOE radius 2, replaces transfuse) 50-100 energy - Gives all units in radius +3 hp recovery per second (+0.5 per armor) for 10 seconds
Psychosis (AOE radius 3) 75-125 energy - A swarm of tiny zerg that feed off the queens limited psyonic powers to cause havok amongst enemy units slowing their attack speed by 40% for 5 seconds
Mutant larvae - 25 energy - spawns a single mutant larva that can move on its own and transform into any zerg unit with 50% build time
Infest - (AOE radius 2) 75-125 energy - any unit that dies while under the effects of infest become infested. Have 50% of the original units hp and 0 armor (+armor upgrades) The infestation takes 5 seconds to take hold.

These are bad ideas that i just popped out but the point is, the queen can be a lot more than she is now. Please make it so =/
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if queens had a tier3 buff it would give zerg the new combat unit they need plus it would not create the imbalance queens had before the nerf.


I don't agree that Queen should have a speed buff off creep especially at tier 3.
By the time you get to tier 3 you should have a large amount of the map covered in creep.
With the use of creep tumors and Overlords you can always pave a way towards the enemy base.

As well I have seen some matches in ZvsZ where one player has gone for a heavy roach and queen composition. The roaches paired along with around 8 queens was actually quite powerful. The queens were able to fight off mutalisks. When the player pushed out they would use the creep tumors and paved their way to the enemy base as well as the queens were able to heal some of the roaches that were getting low on health.

It is an interesting strategy that changes ZvsZ up quite a bit.

I think the queen is meant more of a defensive unit which it works really well as.
By the time tier 3 rolls around if you want to use the queen in battle spread creep.
But i think their are more viable unit mixes to use by the time you get to tier 3
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if queens had a tier3 buff it would give zerg the new combat unit they need plus it would not create the imbalance queens had before the nerf.


I don't agree that Queen should have a speed buff off creep especially at tier 3.
By the time you get to tier 3 you should have a large amount of the map covered in creep.
With the use of creep tumors and Overlords you can always pave a way towards the enemy base.

As well I have seen some matches in ZvsZ where one player has gone for a heavy roach and queen composition. The roaches paired along with around 8 queens was actually quite powerful. The queens were able to fight off mutalisks. When the player pushed out they would use the creep tumors and paved their way to the enemy base as well as the queens were able to heal some of the roaches that were getting low on health.

It is an interesting strategy that changes ZvsZ up quite a bit.

I think the queen is meant more of a defensive unit which it works really well as.
By the time tier 3 rolls around if you want to use the queen in battle spread creep.
But i think their are more viable unit mixes to use by the time you get to tier 3


No other race requires that much ground work for any unit composition though. Also while this might work on smaller maps, larger ones will be far more difficult to pull this kind of strat off due to the requirement of mass creep spreading. Plus even with that ground work *making all those queens and having creep* its still highly counterable even in ZvZ. Mass mutas before they can mass their queens. Attacking from behind to kill the queens, FG and NP.
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The problem with adding another unit to the zerg army, is that they don't need another unit.

The queen is an early game harassment prevention tool and macro tool. Nothing else.

Zerg do not have as many units as toss or terran, but the units themselves make up for this by serving a higher utility value.
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I fought off a rush the other day..or tried to...it came down to a queen versus a zealot -- the zealot won. On the creep. To be fair, they had more stalkers and zealots in bound and i would have lost anyway, but it peeved me to lose a queen in a straight up fight to a zealot.
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I fought off a rush the other day..or tried to...it came down to a queen versus a zealot -- the zealot won. On the creep. To be fair, they had more stalkers and zealots in bound and i would have lost anyway, but it peeved me to lose a queen in a straight up fight to a zealot.


i'm sure if your queen had full health she woulda won the fight :P
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if queens had a tier3 buff it would give zerg the new combat unit they need plus it would not create the imbalance queens had before the nerf.


I don't agree that Queen should have a speed buff off creep especially at tier 3.
By the time you get to tier 3 you should have a large amount of the map covered in creep.
With the use of creep tumors and Overlords you can always pave a way towards the enemy base.

As well I have seen some matches in ZvsZ where one player has gone for a heavy roach and queen composition. The roaches paired along with around 8 queens was actually quite powerful. The queens were able to fight off mutalisks. When the player pushed out they would use the creep tumors and paved their way to the enemy base as well as the queens were able to heal some of the roaches that were getting low on health.

It is an interesting strategy that changes ZvsZ up quite a bit.

I think the queen is meant more of a defensive unit which it works really well as.
By the time tier 3 rolls around if you want to use the queen in battle spread creep.
But i think their are more viable unit mixes to use by the time you get to tier 3



creep tumors move slowly across the map and are killed 20x faster than you can create them on the map.

creep tumors are not reliable. they are useful early game but shouldnt be considered in the queens lategame balance.




in the late game, the queen loses its status as a unit and becomes simply a 2 food macro mechanic that all other races get for free. in addition to that, the two other races have a ACTUAL COMBAT UNIT in their army options where zerg have the queen which is just their macro mechanic and not even a viable unit lategame

a queen is 150 minerals and has enough health and ground damage to beat a zealot (100 minerals) on the ground. the queen also does even more damage to air. if the queen had a tier3 upgrade to move faster off-creep it would certainly be a viable mineral-only shock unit for zerg just like marines are for terran.
Edited by taketobreak on 8/3/2010 9:20 AM PDT
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Queens are amazing support units. They are also the most efficient anti-air unit in the game. End of story. /thread. etc.
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creep tumors move slowly across the map and are killed 20x faster than you can create them on the map.

creep tumors are not reliable. they are useful early game but shouldnt be considered in the queens balance.


No. You're totally wrong. The problem with taking out creep tumors, means you're on the zerg creep. The only thing they can do is take out enough creep that you cannot control.

Which either means the creep is simply too far extended, or you don't have the ground army to combat the one at hand. In either of these situations, a "combat" queen would not save you.
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creep tumors move slowly across the map and are killed 20x faster than you can create them on the map.

creep tumors are not reliable. they are useful early game but shouldnt be considered in the queens lategame balance.


Are you trolling or just mentally challenged?
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creep tumors move slowly across the map and are killed 20x faster than you can create them on the map.

creep tumors are not reliable. they are useful early game but shouldnt be considered in the queens balance.


No. You're totally wrong. The problem with taking out creep tumors, means you're on the zerg creep. The only thing they can do is take out enough creep that you cannot control.

Which either means the creep is simply too far extended, or you don't have the ground army to combat the one at hand. In either of these situations, a "combat" queen would not save you.


sure, but if queens had a t3 upgrade to move faster off-creep then it would make the queen useful and combat viable in all game situations.
Edited by taketobreak on 8/3/2010 10:56 AM PDT
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i dont care about creep tumors all that much to be honest.


I died a little inside just now. Now I understand why all zerg players complain a lot.
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...They are also the most efficient anti-air unit in the game. ...


... What? Do you really think that? Or are you attempting to troll?

Maybe the Zergs best T1 anti-air unit ... See what I did there? Its the only T1 Zerg Anti-air unit! Har har.

That said even if the queens moved fast off creep I would stick to Hydra for DPS and Roach/Ultra for soaking damage. The queen is basically just a hatchery upgrade, but to be a combat unit The queen would have to be reworked ... Just my thoughts on it anyway.
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The reason your bad at zerg is because you don't utilize all the things zerg has to offer.

If you aren't going to use creep tumors to provide map control or the many other things zerg can do and expect to win by just balling up hydras and roaches then you deserve to lose
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i dont care about creep tumors all that much to be honest.


I died a little inside just now. Now I understand why all zerg players complain a lot.


I'm a protoss player, so I'm not entirely sure why creep is such a big deal?
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I don't know about you Benanator but Aurum is right. I have held off countless Banshee or Void rushes and Even Mutas with queens . With 3 to 4 queens throw a spore crawler here and there if you spotted air earlier and its easy to fight off.

Also you cannot just let your queens sit there and attack. Fight on creep if one takes a lot of damage pull it out of range or transfuse it.

Three or Four queens can easily move between your main and natural as long as you've spread creep after youve denied his air he will be behind since he lost a bunch of minerals and gas in his attack. Aswell as you will have more queens for getting those creep tumors spread around for map control.

Edited by Strobe on 8/3/2010 10:17 AM PDT
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...They are also the most efficient anti-air unit in the game. ...


... What? Do you really think that? Or are you attempting to troll?

Maybe the Zergs best T1 anti-air unit ... See what I did there? Its the only T1 Zerg Anti-air unit! Har har.

That said even if the queens moved fast off creep I would stick to Hydra for DPS and Roach/Ultra for soaking damage. The queen is basically just a hatchery upgrade, but to be a combat unit The queen would have to be reworked ... Just my thoughts on it anyway.


Bad player comes into thread. Makes terrible point not supported by any factual evidence. Leaves thread.

150 mineral unit can bring a banshee to 10 hp. Banshee needs a starport+tech lab + 150 minerals + 100 gas. They are statistically the most cost efficient anti-air unit in the game.
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