queens need to be a combat capable unit **

Posts: 2,541
i dont care about creep tumors all that much to be honest.


I died a little inside just now. Now I understand why all zerg players complain a lot.


I'm a protoss player, so I'm not entirely sure why creep is such a big deal?


From wiki.TL.net:

causes all Zerg units, excluding air units and Drones, to move faster when traveling over it. The increase is 30%, barring the Queen (170%), Hydralisk (50%), Spine Crawler, and Spore Crawler (150%).

The fastest units attack first in a battle, so 1 regular zergling vs 1 speedling, speedling wins.
So this also increases damage. It also lets your units get a better concave.

It also gives vision of the area.
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Posts: 131
An equal zerg v toss army fighting in two different scenarios, on creep and off creep, will have dramatically different outcomes.
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Posts: 96
i dont care about creep tumors all that much to be honest.


I died a little inside just now. Now I understand why all zerg players complain a lot.


I'm a protoss player, so I'm not entirely sure why creep is such a big deal?


From wiki.TL.net:

causes all Zerg units, excluding air units and Drones, to move faster when traveling over it. The increase is 30%, barring the Queen (170%), Hydralisk (50%), Spine Crawler, and Spore Crawler (150%).

The fastest units attack first in a battle, so 1 regular zergling vs 1 speedling, speedling wins.
So this also increases damage. It also lets your units get a better concave.

It also gives vision of the area.


Cool, thanks for the info.
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Posts: 70
I think they could do with a slight ground defense boost, but they are stupid good AA. However, t1 zerg units are stupid good at early anti ground, so I guess it's a bit of a moot point. Just sac a tad bit of your early economy to build a slight defense.
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Posts: 1,334
The reason your bad at zerg is because you don't utilize all the things zerg has to offer.

If you aren't going to use creep tumors to provide map control or the many other things zerg can do and expect to win by just balling up hydras and roaches then you deserve to lose


i use creep tumors. but i still think queens should have combat viability off the creep

i think queens should have a t3 upgrade to make them combat viable off creep in games where your enemy kills all the tumors. the only thing that this upgrade would have to do is make queens move faster. thats it. queens just need some movement speed. their stats are fine
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Posts: 7,046
by tier 3 you should have creep everywhere anyways.

transfusing ultralisks seems like a great strategy.
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Posts: 171
I decided to use SC2 as my TV last night, watched a ton of zerg replays back to back...

and I'm SHOCKED how many non-zerg players do NOT destroy creep tumors....... free scouting, fast movement.... it's ridiculous.
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Posts: 338
when you have tier 3 there should be enough creep near the middle of the map
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Posts: 185
I love the queen mechanic. It feels like a queen now. She sits at the hatches and attacks anything that comes close. She poops out tumors to spread creep, and she makes love to the hatch to get more larva. I am open to the idea of a slight change to the larva mechanic, but I love, love, love the queen.
If I had to make a change without any testing or certainty how it would affect balance I would like to see them lose their supply requirement and be limited to one a hatchery.
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Posts: 1
I'm a diamond player and I've actually been saved many times with queens/transfuse. Sometimes I'll have more than 5 queens to defend my base/naturalExpo along with a some support units... and my opponent will become baffled and surprised at how they failed to push even with their ground army. I even surprise myself sometimes at how long the queens last with transfuse. lol. Even against Colossus !! x_X
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Posts: 1,094
I don't understand this thread. If you want to use queens in your army, then you have extra queens to spread the creep. Queens GENERATE CREEP, why would you need them to move fast off of creep??? Laziness?? Sorry, zerg isn't a lazy race. If you demand off-creep mobility from hydras and queens use Nydus worms or overlord drops.

Queens are the most efficient anti-air in the game. This is simply true, they can kill far more than you expect. They are only limited by their build time. When you add in Transfusion it becomes quite absurd.

I've killed 8 focus-firing mutalisks with 4 queens without losing any of the queens. That's 600/0/8 taking out 800/800/16. Queens are completely underestimated.

Oh in case people don't know this: Multiple creep tumors does spread creep faster.
Edited by DoubleReed on 8/3/2010 12:56 PM PDT
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Posts: 518
.... They are statistically the most cost efficient anti-air unit in the game.


Unfortunately your first post didn't say the most cost efficient. Big difference between Most efficient AA and most cost efficient AA.
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Posts: 70
I love the queen mechanic. It feels like a queen now. She sits at the hatches and attacks anything that comes close. She poops out tumors to spread creep, and she makes love to the hatch to get more larva. I am open to the idea of a slight change to the larva mechanic, but I love, love, love the queen.
If I had to make a change without any testing or certainty how it would affect balance I would like to see them lose their supply requirement and be limited to one a hatchery.


Correction: She pukes out eggs.

Agree with the free supply and 1 per hatch, and I agree with the new "feel." They feel like a queen, sparking production of young, expanding the hive, and being little more than a defensive unit in combat. Perfect.
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Posts: 96
if you havnt noticed yet, zerg have less units than toss and terrand


Solution: Bring back the Lurker
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Posts: 131
if you havnt noticed yet, zerg have less units than toss and terrand


Solution: Bring back the Lurker


No, it's not.

We don't need an equal number of units to be equal on the battlefield.

Half the zerg players out there right now are having difficulty using all the available units in their arsenal. Adding more units does not change this.

Before people try to change the game, they need to play for a couple of months and actually take advantage of the tools they're giving.

Little tid-bit: These forums, look exactly like early beta forums. A lot of people are saying the exact same things, and these kind of posts slowly dwindled down twords the end of the beta. People were just starting to realize how to use all their units in the right situation, and realizing, "Man, zerg is actually really powerful."

This includes the whole stage where Koreans were dominating with zerg well before the Americans, simply because instead of whining they were simply learning to play the game.
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Posts: 348
Queen was cool in sc1, but I think the new queen is a thousand times improved.

Although I do think, maybe with t2 (t3 is just too much), it should have a bit more base-defense viability. Not necessarily a lot, but right now it seems a little weak on base defense.

The other day I fought a terran that went for planetary fortress rather than orbital command (cannon on base rather than radar) and every ling I threw in got facerolled. Instantly.
Because of that cannon alone (i could easily wipe his army), it ended up a 48 minute t3 game. In bronze league...

I don't expect the queen to have some upgrade to aoe nuke everything that runs in, but it should be powerful enough to take on some things alone after a t2 upgrade, and base only.

Anyways I also loved the idea earlier on p1 with the guy suggesting abilities. Although I'd rather suggest that the queen should be able to function as an equivalent to a medic on the front lines. Some kind of upgrade that doesn't change it too much, but replaces larvae with normal speed off creep; keep low attack (or just remove); and transfuse with a lower-cost lower-heal autocast.
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Posts: 711
I like to get two of them because double queens make good anti-rush when you have atleast 1 crawler around, or even without it. Alternate which one does larva spawn so the energy builds up a little bit. And when the game rides on a bit and you have an expansion, send the other queen there instead of building another one.
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