How the meta-game makes Zerg feel underpower

Posts: 257
There's a lot of argument on whether Zerg is underpowered, overpowered, or fine. Everyone wants it to fit nicely into one of those categories, but I think it's not really that simple. I've been playing 4v4 as Zerg at the gold level since release, and I've had the same feeling that many of the "underpowered" people talk about. Many games leave me feeling that there wasn't much else I could have done. It's frustrating, but I don't think that it is the race balance directly. Instead, I think it is the "meta-game" - the strategies currently being used.

Zerg units tend to specialize in killing a specific type of enemy, which is easily seen with so few units being able to attack both air and ground. This means we need to have constant scouting to make the right choices. This is where the meta-game starts hurting us. Terra players will often block the entrance to their base, and best early scouts are ground. Later in the game our stealth scouts will be detected by decent players as well, leaving us mostly blind. We can use a mutalisk to scout, but that requires us to build a tower and branch out from the specialization that is so necessary.

The other races don't have this same problem with scouting. They have units that are more versatile, and have better scouting (e.g. scan). Our lack of these things leads to Zerg being easy to counter. If your enemy prevents your scouting (which is not very difficult) then they can win via massing a versatile unit. To me, this is a much bigger issue than queens and spawning larva. You could have an unlimited number of larva, but with our unit composition we won't win without a better solution to scouting in current strategies.
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Posts: 185
1. Upgrade Overlord speed
2. Fly Overlord into enemy base

It'll probably die, but scans cost mules too.
Edited by Clarste on 8/4/2010 6:00 AM PDT
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Posts: 257
If it doesn't get shot down before seeing anything useful because of towers. Not to mention that an upgraded overlord is not going to break any speed records. Plus losing it is a more costly form of scouting than the other races.

Creative solutions can help the scouting problem, but shouldn't a race that requires constant scouting be at least equal to the other races in scouting ability?
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Posts: 113
OV->Overseer->Changeling
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Posts: 257
I feel like that works once each game, but the problem is how much do you have to give up to just have decent scouting? The whole point is that Zerg feels underpowered because within current strategy it's such a pain to actually get good intel on the enemy, and without that information we will probably lose to something as simple as mass stalkers.

@Kit - as far as changeling goes, at higher levels your enemy will almost always wall off the base ramp or have detectors and turrets. They're only really useful for scouting out expansions, not checking the main base for what's being built.

We are the only race that absolutely needs to scout to be at all effective, and yet we are probably the worst at it when people wall in.
Edited by Hinotori on 8/4/2010 6:22 AM PDT
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Posts: 947
1. Upgrade Overlord speed
2. Fly Overlord into enemy base

It'll probably die, but scans cost mules too.


Thanks, you solved T2 scouting problems... except they were never a problem. Not being able to scout from the time the wall goes up and the point when you have OL speed is the problem... because Terran have about a dozen different strategies and they all have different counters.

But yeah, to the OP... midgame scouting is not a problem for Zerg. We actually have some of the best scouting in the game mid to late game.
Edited by Draemos on 8/4/2010 6:26 AM PDT
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Posts: 185
3 watch as overlord doesnt make it 2 feet into any terrans base without getting blown the hell away by massive amounts of marines or anti air which all only cost 1 unit so to not give raise to the real project that the wizard of oz is working on! DAMN YOU DORATHY!!!!!!!!!!!!

i found perhaps the best way is to overseer and then changling it may not last long but u can run through the base and not have to worry about losing any food over it assuming u sent one to their "behind the mineral line" secret hideout early in the game.


...why do you assume that you can get an Overseer to safely drop a changeling while at the same time assuming that an Overlord can't get anywhere near the place? If one works, so does the other. And unless you're an idiot you're not going to be running over marines clumped up at the edge of his base because you don't send the overlord forward when you see the marines. You go around to the other side, where you would've dropped the changeling.

Plus, if they have enough marines to kill your overlord before it see anything, then you can probably be sure that he's massing marines at the expense of other units.
Edited by Clarste on 8/4/2010 6:33 AM PDT
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Posts: 826
Plus losing it is a more costly form of scouting than the other races.



eh terran waste a mule which is what 400 minerals to our 100 and if you send an OL without first preparing for a replacement and thus food capping yourself thats not a problem of the game thats a problem of the player. parts of this are like chess... gotta think a few steps ahead
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Posts: 147
I'm sorry but zerg scouting is one of the best in the game because of the changeling. Very few players will have AA around every angle of their base. Find an open spot, drop a changeling, and do a quick runthrough before he has time to target it and attack it. The changeling is automatically ignored by everything in the game, so your opponent has to notice it and attack it himself. By then, you'll have a great idea as to what he's building.


This. It's the best scouting unit in the freaking game. Hell, even IdrA sometimes forget about it...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyUdeIh9ic8&fmt=22#t=7m15s

Could of used a overseer to sneak it in the base.
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Posts: 70
3 watch as overlord doesnt make it 2 feet into any terrans base without getting blown the hell away by massive amounts of marines or anti air which all only cost 1 unit so to not give raise to the real project that the wizard of oz is working on! DAMN YOU DORATHY!!!!!!!!!!!!

i found perhaps the best way is to overseer and then changling it may not last long but u can run through the base and not have to worry about losing any food over it assuming u sent one to their "behind the mineral line" secret hideout early in the game.


...why do you assume that you can get an Overseer to safely drop a changeling while at the same time assuming that an Overlord can't get anywhere near the place? If one works, so does the other. And unless you're an idiot you're not going to be running over marines clumped up at the edge of his base because you don't send the overlord forward when you see the marines. You go around to the other side, where you would've dropped the changeling.

Plus, if they have enough marines to kill your overlord before it see anything, then you can probably be sure that he's massing marines at the expense of other units.


You miss the point. You drop it outside at try to walk it up. Hopefully get it into the ramp and up the front doorstep without him shooting it. Anyone who sends an overseer sailing over a terran wall is an idiot.

This is what is perpetuating the problem of scouting. Our best scout can't get past the simple "LOL WALL OFF."
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Posts: 2,541
3 watch as overlord doesnt make it 2 feet into any terrans base without getting blown the hell away by massive amounts of marines or anti air which all only cost 1 unit so to not give raise to the real project that the wizard of oz is working on! DAMN YOU DORATHY!!!!!!!!!!!!

i found perhaps the best way is to overseer and then changling it may not last long but u can run through the base and not have to worry about losing any food over it assuming u sent one to their "behind the mineral line" secret hideout early in the game.


...why do you assume that you can get an Overseer to safely drop a changeling while at the same time assuming that an Overlord can't get anywhere near the place? If one works, so does the other. And unless you're an idiot you're not going to be running over marines clumped up at the edge of his base because you don't send the overlord forward when you see the marines. You go around to the other side, where you would've dropped the changeling.

Plus, if they have enough marines to kill your overlord before it see anything, then you can probably be sure that he's massing marines at the expense of other units.


You miss the point. You drop it outside at try to walk it up. Hopefully get it into the ramp and up the front doorstep without him shooting it. Anyone who sends an overseer sailing over a terran wall is an idiot.

This is what is perpetuating the problem of scouting. Our best scout can't get past the simple "LOL WALL OFF."


Overseer = faster than marines. If you're losing an overseer to marines you have downs.
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Posts: 308
1. Upgrade Overlord speed
2. Fly Overlord into enemy base

It'll probably die, but scans cost mules too.


This.

Sending three overlords is about the cost of a single mule, right?

Though I've never had trouble getting by with just one. If some fruitcake is lining his base walls
with turrets and you're still losing, then you've got bigger problems.
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