Does zerg need another unit?

Posts: 565
Lurkers were far too powerful of a defense for zerg in sc1. Without siege tanks or air units (given the lurkers werent around AA and they usually were) you couldnt get thru a ball of 8 or so without losing half your army.
However if lurkers were a silent, single-target attacker that would be different. No audible sound other than your guys dying or your alarm going WE ARE UNDER ATTACK! and a slight spiking graphic.

As for the air issue. GIVE US OUR DAMN SCOURGE BACK! Theyre in the campaign, GIVE THEM TO US! Even if it removes Corruptors fine by me i hate those things. Scourge were required in SC1 because they could take out just about any air in big enough numbers or with proper timing.

EDIT: And it would be nice if Banelines did no bonus damage to anything, just a large chunk to whatever the heck they hit. I mean cmon its a big acidic kaboom. Even the mighty Thor would have some of the acid hit some pretty important gears.
Take that back, keep the bonus to buildings lol we need that.


Banelings do +20 damage to light units on top of the 20 SPLASH damage they are already doing.

But yes, I do agree that a New or Morphed Tier 2 unit is needed and which is what the second expansion is for. The unit that seems to be missing is the transition between tier 1 and tier 3. Idra has already pointed out that it seems the Zerg do not have a great counter against Terran Tier 2 mech.

Tell me what Tier 2 Zerg units that can directly counter Seige Tanks and Thors in the middle of a MMM bioball? You say Infestors? Neural Parasite is very situational and can be difficult to pull off. It's more likely that you'll be using fungal growth to kill the Tier 1 units, and then handle the Tier 2. There isn't a direct counter. You cant send in mutas to muta bomb 5 or 6 tanks in the middle of a bioball/Thor Combo. It get's eaten.

As for Tier 3, it's obviously different with Broodlords. We're not talking about late game. We're talking about mid game problems. A Tier 1 and Tier 2 combo for zerg is lings, banelings, Roaches, Hydras, Mutas and Infestors. There needs to be some meat in between for a Tier 2.5 which is why we're talking about lurkers or some other Zerg morph.

It's the same problem over and over on the forums. While I disagree that it's entirely OP, but there is a distinct advantage in a Tier1 and Tier 2 combo when it comes to Terran. Tier 1 and 2 combined looks like Marine, Marauder, Medivac, Ghost, Reaper, Hellion, Seige Tanks, Banshee, Viking and Ravens (with Thor being the next one up to tip the scale). How many Combos, drops and uses can you do? There are so many options.

Not ranting, just stating the facts.
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Posts: 180
I just want another 1-supply unit so zerg is more masseable. Other than that, I don't really know.
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Posts: 1,139
I believe zerg are slightly underpowered. Just in the air defense department.


And on that note I have to ask; what happened to Scourges? I know they exist, I have seen them in-game during the single player campaign, but why can't Zerg players build them in multiplayer? Can the Terrans and Protoss just not counter flying explosive Zerglings like they did in SC1 without ruining the balance between this game's new units?


We got banelings, a grounded scourge that costs more money and time to build with an aoe dmg.

They should bring back Op'd status roaches or reduce the food cost to 1.
Edited by Kolossal on 8/2/2010 8:35 PM PDT
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Posts: 518
I just want another 1-supply unit so zerg is more masseable. Other than that, I don't really know.


I Agree completely. After Roaches were nerfed to 2 supply in the beta I noticed my forces always look small. It was at that point my feeling of "Swarming" With the Zerg were gone. The only thing I feel like "The Swarm" with is mass Zergling.

Need another 1 supply unit!

EDIT:
We got banelings, a grounded scourge that costs more money and time to build with an aoe dmg.


They were actually talking about Zerg's lack of anti-air. Banelings are great, but do nothing for anti-air. Scourge would be a great addition for Zerg's Anti-Air. Banelings are still great though. :-)
Edited by Benanator on 8/2/2010 8:40 PM PDT
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Posts: 2,311
Maybe a 1 supply ranged unit that does half the damage a Roach does?
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Posts: 131
"The swarm" doesn't really relate to the size of a zerg player's army. Rather, it's about their capabilities to rebuild an entire army in waves at a time.

Unless you can sit here and tell us you use every single unit in the game but still feel like you're actually weaker than other races, zerg might need something to fill that roll.

What you're most likely doing is not taking advantage of each zerg unit for the situation at hand.

No zerg does not have scourge to deal with air units like they did in SC1, but this isn't SC1, and you have to use different units to fill those gaps. This does not mean zerg are lacking.
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Posts: 565
OMG.. I just thought up of a cool zergling mechanic.. How about the ability to research after Hive tech.. Zergling Parachutes.. then you could parachute onto a Thor and eat it's brains out.

We'll call it Paraling.
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Posts: 4,072
"The swarm" should refer to the size of an army because while being able to quickly rebuild your army is handy, the Zerg need superior numbers to compensate for stronger firepower from the other races in a battle. The Zerg were always based on cheap, expendable, massed units attacking you on all sides, or in a line where the units keep coming and coming. When you half the size of the Zerg army, they are no longer able to "swarm" an enemy on all sides and regain their "strengh in numbers" advantage to meet the advantages of the other races, which have units that are somewhat stronger and more expensive. Attacking in waves of equal or fewer units may not enable you to overcome their firepower, while surrounding them with twice as many units may give you better leverage.
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Posts: 131
What you think is a smaller army by appearance, is the fact that you suffer from 1 control group syndrome.

Take your swarm of ling/hydra and spread them out in a concave rather than attack move in one large group.

Both longs and hydras have a small model, but this is actually to their advantage. Take a group of staplers of equal size in supply, and the stalkers might actually appear to be in larger number because hydras group up so well together. But they won't be nearly as effective in the small ball.

Spread them out, and the fact that their small models they can fit many more in that concave than staplers large models could n
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Posts: 518
anyone else notice the irony of OP saying we lack +light and +armoured when those are the only things any of our units have a +damage to? (banelings and ultralisks)


Unfortunately the Ultralisk has very limited use, and the Baneling is a bomb. It dies after one attack ... and has minimal HP. I'm talking about units like the ever useful Marauder, Stalkers, Colossus (Hate these things). I can go on. Notice none of those were Zerg units. Ultralisk do deal MASSIVE damage to armored units ... but lets face it. They are way to big and dont mix with Zerg forced at all.

And we have +Massive with the corruptor ... just sayin. (And that ones actualy kinda useful for killing colossus and BC ... Thats about it.
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Posts: 131
For the record, I'm typing this up on my phone, and it's not easy.
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Posts: 131
Ultras by no means have limited use. They're one of the strongest units in the Zerg army. Heck, ultras are one of the strongest ground units in the game.
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Posts: 518
If you use Ultralisk anywhere but an open field they are going to clump up and get destroyed. Limited use. As I said, they deal massive damage. And extremely fast at that. But at a choke point they will get destroyed. Unless you have them comeing from more than one direction they are easily focus fired (One shot by the Thor's skill, even though it takes a bit of time).

Limited use imo. Either way, That gives us one unit with + Armored ... and it happens to be T3 and 6 supply. The massive damage makes it worth it ... if you can catch the army in an open field and not have your ultralisk get focused down instantly or just blocked by your own units.

I havn't tried an Ultralisk drop yet, maybe I'm missing the magic in that ... but I doubt it.
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Posts: 1
i miss my zerglings in the sky... :(
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Posts: 947


Unfortunately the Ultralisk has very limited use


Ultras have been a very solid unit since about beta patch 16-17. They are Zergs best answer against a number of units compositions that we are otherwise weak against.
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Posts: 518
What I mean when I say "Limited use" Is again, although great at what they do they have to have perfect conditions to do it. Ultralisks can rather be really great or terrible. On a choke or any place with little room to move, terrible. With a wide open space and coming from multiple directions, magical. I am not saying they are a bad unit. I am saying they are only good when used in very specific places. Yes, this applies to many many units, However I feel it applies strongest to the Ultralisk. Who again can be great, or just completely useless. Where as other units might be at a disadvantage they wont become completely useless if put in an unfavorable spot.
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Posts: 16
Don't think we need lurkers.

Scourges, however, I agree. Mutalisks and devourers just aren't enough if the other person has just as many units as you.

And the "if you let them make as many units as you, you deserve to lose" response is a weak argument.
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Posts: 404
No!!!!
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