StarCraft® II

Zerg needs some serious help...

I'd love to see some solid Zerg replays. I'd check out Day 9 ect during beta and it seems like every Zerg vs X replay I picked to watch involved the Zerg player losing (cept Zerg vs Zerg I guess! :)


I was in the beta and I think a lot of new Zerg players are going through the learning curves we went through.

The best solution I've found for AA is queens....I know its not ideal and holds off Lair tech, but its the safest bet during that "blind" period, on which I totally agree. You can only scout with OL sacrifice against weak players who don't pay attention to the map. I don't like using spores because they waste a drone which is too valuable early on when Zerg needs to pump macro as much as possible to overcome the "Equal-mineral" problem OP talked about.

The thing that drives me the most crazy is the maps. For the love of God, please put LESS ridges over looking EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE MAP! Zerg are the only race without a SINGLE unit that can use cliffs for any real advantage. I think a lot of the maps are a huge disadvantage to Zerg players.
Edited by TheJudicata on 8/3/2010 1:35 PM PDT
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I'd love to see some solid Zerg replays. I'd check out Day 9 ect during beta and it seems like every Zerg vs X replay I picked to watch involved the Zerg player losing (cept Zerg vs Zerg I guess! :)


Well a zerg won Day[9]'s KOTB tournament...
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[quote]Wow, another noob diamond zerg player who forgot how to use an overlord. Use your overlord if he has 1 marine who really cares if you see him doing 1/1/1 then its banshee and hellions. If you see him get about 3 or 4 zealots with maybe 1 or 2 gate ways and early cybernetics core hes going void rays. How, hard is it to figure that out? [quote]

An early cybernetics core can really just mean hes spamming stalkers. Every good protoss player gets their core early enough. Even the ones who go mass chargelots.
Edited by ViZZeR on 8/3/2010 3:14 PM PDT
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Wow, another noob diamond zerg player who forgot how to use an overlord. Use your overlord if he has 1 marine who really cares if you see him doing 1/1/1 then its banshee and hellions. If you see him get about 3 or 4 zealots with maybe 1 or 2 gate ways and early cybernetics core hes going void rays. How, hard is it to figure that out? My god you know easy it is to counter air with Zerg if you actually use your brain. Step one build an evolution chamber which cost ONLY 75 minerals step 2 once you scouted place an overlord on each corner of his base, so if he takes off with those void rays or banshees you can build your spore crawlers in time. Also, you should have at least 2 queens by this point. Two spore crawlers and 2 queens can take out like 5 or 6 void rays. Remember to use transfusion on your queens. Now, stop whining and go beat those noob terran and protoss players that rush air. Also, if you scout just get air yourself like if you see banshee get mutas or if you see void ray get hydras how complicated is this?


I don't know wtf you are fighting against, but every terran who has teched to banshees against me had at least the minimum of 4 marines( a whooping 200 mineral investment). That overlord sure as hell isn't living enough to see anything past the edges of a base.
Regarding 1-2 gate and an early cybernatics core, I really, really hope you're a troll. Then again, no one ever chronoboosts their cybernatics core to get warp gate and does 4 gate proxy pylon push, ever, against a zerg, so you might be right. No one ever gets stalkers or sentries when they plan to do a gateway push either, it's always nothing but full zealots every time when they are rushing.

Beating an air tech isn't hard, if I can confirm that they did in fact skimp out on their early troops and went for an air tech path. If I get "at least 2 queens, an evolutionary chamber, and sacrifice an overlord to ATTEMPT to scout a base," then I'm dead 100% of the time to a 4 gate push or infantry push +1 or 2 tanks, and I do mean 100% of the time( You are asking for me to sacrifice 375 minerals towards a potential air tech that doesn't happen in at least half the game , just because it's a possibility).
Edited by Ringo on 8/3/2010 4:17 PM PDT
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Great post! I found it very funny. More satire please!
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I don't think I've ever had a real problem scouting with zerg before, in fact, it's as easy as sending a ling to tower or using your OLs. I don't really know the game too well yet but I have had some trouble with my anti-air game, cause I'm finding the spore crawlers to be too weak (and only move-able on creep), and queens aren't amazingly offensive or cost effective either.
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Ringo I am right there with you.

I am a slightly above average player. My micro/maco is lacking but I have a good general concept of the game.

I can't wrap my head around how to combat the scouting problem. The drone hidden early on is actually a really good idea if I don't mind sacrificing the one worker so early on a gamble that it doesn't get seen.

Overlords pre-speed are a joke, and I am now starting to match against people wise enough to build thier production buidings in the center of thier bases.

So now its a gamble. I have to guess at what my opponent is doing based on weather or not I saw a refinery on my 7food scout, its simply not reliable.

Also, why does EVERY single map have everyone starting on a easily defendable one ramp base. Never once have I seen a terran or toss not use a ramp block build. Not one single game. its too easy to lock out zerg until past lair tech that its simply stupid not to do it.
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Wow, another noob diamond zerg player who forgot how to use an overlord. Use your overlord if he has 1 marine who really cares if you see him doing 1/1/1 then its banshee and hellions. If you see him get about 3 or 4 zealots with maybe 1 or 2 gate ways and early cybernetics core hes going void rays. How, hard is it to figure that out? My god you know easy it is to counter air with Zerg if you actually use your brain. Step one build an evolution chamber which cost ONLY 75 minerals step 2 once you scouted place an overlord on each corner of his base, so if he takes off with those void rays or banshees you can build your spore crawlers in time. Also, you should have at least 2 queens by this point. Two spore crawlers and 2 queens can take out like 5 or 6 void rays. Remember to use transfusion on your queens. Now, stop whining and go beat those noob terran and protoss players that rush air. Also, if you scout just get air yourself like if you see banshee get mutas or if you see void ray get hydras how complicated is this?


So I guess Idra, arguably the BEST zerg player is pretty noob as well?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140056&currentpage=3

I quote Idra for truth:
"the thing with is vs terran you literally cant play safe, if they wall and leave marines on the edge of their base they can do any number of strategies, all of which have completely different counters.

obviously i cared and did everything i could to win, terran is just utterly ridiculous right now.

it is not a fluke. it is a result of the fact that terran has a million viable rushes that have completely different counters and cannot be scouted, and they have a perfectly solid mid/late game to fall back on that you have to be aware of too. means you cant just cut econ to defend everything, if that were even possible, cuz then theyd run you over mid game."

The point is, as a Zerg you can play safe and set up a counter against air or other viable Terran rush. The problem is it costs you wayyy to much econ and you won't be able to catch up to a Terran. But the problem isn't so much Terran, its that Zerg have been lacking something ever since they nerfed the hell out of Roaches, which was the backbone unit.
Edited by TheJudicata on 8/3/2010 5:40 PM PDT
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Zerg is fine, to be an internet fanboy I will have to say "yer doin' it wrong"

This is my build, steal if you want, kinda my guide I guess.

send the 10th drone out for scouting, you are NOT CHECKING for air cheese, just make sure you're not being rushed/proxy'd

(If you ARE being rushed/proxy'd look here! or if it's a 4 player map and you haven't seen what they're doing at 14 drones, this is my just to be safe build)

at 14, if you have 200 mins and you can't seem to find their base, or their barracks/gateway is mysteriously missing. . . assume it's right outside your base most likely this, is BAD (for, and of them). You and your sneaky mind want to build a spawning pool for 2 reasons now, 1 they haven't walled, free walk into their min line, 2 they are doing some sort of all-in rush, you want to defend, this is usually where you want a roach warren early on to defend against a rush, transitioning out of roach is EASY (and roach as a damage sponge is useful, so don't write them off just yet) there, now you have a better econ, you've defended a rush, and you're free to transition into tier 2.

The 14 hatch, 13 pool build is better than every single wall off build I've seen, evar. For multiple reasons, setting up that extra hatchery/early expansion means more production, more econ, more happy, and unless they planned on early rushes (I've defended 2 gate openings with this build, spinecrawler + queen + 6 or so zlings) it's easy to defend, get more minerals for a third queen (one for each base, extra one for creep/transfusion) to easily defend against air cheese. From here, I usually like to set up a good frontline force (using my impressive zerg macro /flex) with zlings, roaches, hydras (usually keeping hydras on high ground to snipe stuff that gets in range woot) and doing what a smart zerg in tech 2 would do. . . use your silly little overlords ability to throw creep anywhere and build a spire in a strange place on the map, harass like a mofo with the mutas, keep them in one base whatever, keep expanding keep your macro up, and l2micro mutas.

BUT WAIT!!! WTF YOU DIDN'T ADDRESS THE FACT WE CAN'T SCOUT NIL!

. . . huh, weird, but I did just counter the air cheese, and the tier 1 army while ignoring the scouting problem all together

TL:DR version
The zerg DO NOT play like the others, you do not amass an army with the mentality of "well, this beats this, so I'll mass one unit and win rite?" (wrong btw). If you want to steamroll, gtfo, play Terran. There are balance issues (like the ultralol) BUT we can depend on our macro (the most macro intense race in the game) to make us win.

The zerg are reactionary, you see them come out with any build, you can have a ton of larva on multiple hatcheries instantly become the counter, BEFORE they cross the map. surround his base with OL's if you have to (just pull them back if they get air units to kill them lol)

maybe I'm wrong, but this playstyle/build has worked wonders for me.
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He is saying the truth... i don't play VERY VERY WELL but i watching videos and playing too i see that zerg is the worst race of the game, mainly against terran...

For me blizzard need to work about it need to nerf Terrans improve Zergs the only race that is balanced yet is the protoss that have nice units in begining and on the end of the game

always in population games like age of empires starcraft and warcraft at the begining always have some races that are overflowed or something about that..

PLEASE BLIZZARD IMPROVE ZERGS AND DECREASE TERRANS PLEASE !

Thank u all and peace !
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