StarCraft® II

Immortality, an achievable goal?

Posts: 1,411
wikis are made from published peer reviewed works.

Footnotes. Are you friends.

Reality is complex and multifocal.

I never suggested there are not many factors involved.

However, the genesis of aging and death is predominantly genetic and not mechanical.

provide me with some, frankly I remain largely unconvinced.


Putting me to work are we?

I expect a cake of this.

Carrot mind you.

I understand what it is you are arguing better now


You would be surprised to learn that it is a most worthwhile thing indeed to listen to me, even if you dont agree. And I do try to be as clear as I can. Thanks. :)
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03/08/2012 05:26 PMPosted by MODAX
You would be surprised to learn that it is a most worthwhile thing indeed to listen to me, even if you dont agree. And I do try to be as clear as I can.

I do my best to listen to everyone, however when you are as clear as a beer bottle (which is how you come off initially usually) I have to decipher what I can, and either ignore or fill in the blanks where I can't.
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Posts: 149
03/08/2012 05:26 PMPosted by MODAX
However, the genesis of aging and death is predominantly genetic and not mechanical.


I'm not sure how we can consider the two as seperate. Mechanical stresses on a cellular level have changed very little, if at all, and cells have had billions of years to adapt. If cells appear to have any sort of succeptability to mechanical streses now, it must be a consequence of genetics.
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If cells appear to have any sort of succeptability to mechanical streses now, it must be a consequence of genetics.


This.

100%

Genetics is the primary driver of our life as human beings. And the life of all living beings.

Cell death is something that was evolved and acquired.

The first lifeforms were immortal.

We still do actually have living immortal living lifeforms present now, but they are few.
Edited by MODAX on 3/9/2012 6:43 AM PST
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modax you just skipped that 1st sentence didn't you
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03/08/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Necromaster
You would be surprised to learn that it is a most worthwhile thing indeed to listen to me, even if you dont agree. And I do try to be as clear as I can.

I do my best to listen to everyone, however when you are as clear as a beer bottle (which is how you come off initially usually) I have to decipher what I can, and either ignore or fill in the blanks where I can't.


Then I have to take responsibility for not communicating accurately. I apologize. I will put more effort to be more understandable.

modax you just skipped that 1st sentence didn't you


?

Mechanical stresses on a cellular level have changed very little, if at all, and cells have had billions of years to adapt.


This is strong proof aging is based in genetics. Otherwise we would expect to see a multitude of life forms that suffer near zero mechanical damage. That we still have weakness to mechanical fatigue shows that immorality is not being strongly selected for in the overwhelming majority of species.

Take the Protoss for example.

They would be what you would expect to see if the evolutionary process for a given species was selecting for longer, and longer life and ever more robustness against mechanical fatigue.

We don't because there is no selective pressure for immortality. In fact there is substantial selective pressure against immortality. In particular, there is a strong evolutionary bias towards a certain regular relationship of lifetime vs death in any given environment.
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03/09/2012 04:00 AMPosted by capnpufnstuf
I'm not sure how we can consider the two as seperate.

this sentence
Edited by Necromaster on 3/9/2012 8:33 AM PST
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Posted by capnpufnstuf
I'm not sure how we can consider the two as seperate.


They are not separate.

They are interrelated.

Genetics initiates aging which leads to death, through increased susceptibility to mechanical affects.

It is not the reverse.
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05/15/2011 06:44 AMPosted by Astrai
Read any of Iain Banks' novels about the Culture for one take on the subject.

<3 where I got the name.

All the logic for indefinite lifespans being physically possible are compelling, but here's a song that disagrees...if it's in a song, it must be true. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f6RTw2dTjg#t=0h1m13s
-contains coarse language.

It's a strange reality we find ourselves in, with no beginning possible (what caused this 'event'?)...nor an end,because if something existed once, it will again given an infinite amount of 'time'/change.

The idea that everything decays, and stays that way forever seems strange to me. We've mastered fire, computers, manipulating individual atoms...how long until we solve entropy? (if that's the fate of the universe) we've got a lot of time, look at how far we've come in the last few hundred years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

If we lived an indefinite amount of time, how good would the pro sc2 players be? imagine that. Perfect macro/micro, Machiavellian strategies...
how good would you be after a few thousand years of playing?
Edited by TheCulture on 3/15/2012 6:17 AM PDT
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Simply put, no reason to NOT circumvent death. But by the time that technology is discovered/used, we will have a society much more similar to "The Venus Project" (not an advocate, but I do see the logic behind it) rather than a money-based competitive and inhumane one.

Would be great, imo.

a society based on science, sounds all well and good but what does that mean?
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Posts: 1,411

a society based on science, sounds all well and good but what does that mean?


?

Communities of people making choices based on reason, empirical evidence and rationality.

Yes... I see... how... this...would be... a bad thing... as opposed to what we.... have... now ?

<--- confuseddogface.jpg
Edited by MODAX on 3/20/2012 5:00 AM PDT
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Well Immortality is nothing without a good life. Address the world's current problems then maybe think about extending natural life.
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03/27/2012 01:48 PMPosted by UltraNoob
Well Immortality is nothing without a good life. Address the world's current problems then maybe think about extending natural life.


The problems are not in competition with each other.
In order to achieve 'immortality' or at least an indefinite lifespan, we'd need to cure diseases or make them non-fatal to everyone.

One of the worlds greatest problems, that stops everyone from living a good life is illness caused by aging.
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03/28/2012 08:29 PMPosted by TheCulture
Well Immortality is nothing without a good life. Address the world's current problems then maybe think about extending natural life.


The problems are not in competition with each other.
In order to achieve 'immortality' or at least an indefinite lifespan, we'd need to cure diseases or make them non-fatal to everyone.

One of the worlds greatest problems, that stops everyone from living a good life is illness caused by aging.


No I meant the other problems besides that: World Hunger, Terrorism, First World Society now, COD, Drugs, Nuclear Weapons, Global Warming, Sexual Immorality, Etc...

We should probably get on those before thinking about Immortality. Imagine an extremist that would never die. Not much of a help right?
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03/30/2012 08:39 PMPosted by UltraNoob
Nuclear Weapons, Global Warming

I know a few of intelligent people with well thought out solutions to these 2 problems, of course they aren't the only ones. The problem is that trust and self sacrifice are required to solve these two problems, and as things stand we do not have much capability for either.
The rest of your problems will never go away completely, terrorism (hatred) will always exist so long as there are stupid people in the world (people doing stupid things, and other people reacting in kind). Same deal with drugs (avarice, or greed).
World hunger is very solvable, we just don't have the infastructure in place to actually fix it. However the reason we don't have the infastructure is poverty.
Save a eugenics program or widespread gene therapy, I don't see a permenant solution to people doing stupid things. Even then chances are good the problem still wouldn't be solved and humanity would be worse off for it. Education is a good solution for an individual, however unless everyone is educated, the problems still exist.
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Yeah. Continuing this idiotic path, humanity may ironically destroy itself. We are our own worst enemies.
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its hardly ironic, we have always been our own worst enemies. Again people not thinking or believeing something true which is in fact false are the sources of most of the evil in this world. Of course those problems are a bit vauge and general but everything can be traced to them.
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Posts: 322
I wonder how we would address the drive to procreate and raise offspring if the ability to become immortal became widespread, cheap, and convenient. I see no reason to not keep advancing our ability to extend life but we'll have to address a lot of issues before we go down a path of an immortal society. Who knows, maybe it will turn out that widespread immortality was the worst thing to ever happen to humanity.

Not saying that it will be, just that we need to be very careful how we proceed down the path to immortality.

Considering so many people are still dropping dead from too much McDonald's clogging their arteries, I'd say it's going to be awhile!
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